Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Blake Griffin Slam Dunks: NBA Jam Style

Analyzing The Golden State Warriors Defense in 2010-11: A Synergy Perspective

I'm back with a brand new adventure! 

In my last post I looked at the Warriors offense through the lens of Synergy statistics (found some good things and some bad things), and I promised that a) I would do the same for defense in a subsequent post; and b) the results would leave you somewhat queasy. Let's see how that goes. And now would be a good time to read the last post, if you haven't already, to get you ready for the terminology I will use here without reviewing.

Star-divide

The first thing I want to show are the league-wide summary plots for defense, as I did for the offense last time (the Warriors averages are represented by the blue lines):

Def_play_type_bw_medium

Note that opposing teams run pick and roll plays (BALL and ROLL) against us much less than other teams. They also run ISO against us relatively infrequently compared to league average. However, we give up very close to the highest rate of transition plays in the league. Only Sacramento and Detroit give up more. We also give up CUT plays at a high rate. Here is the PPP plot:

Def_ppp_play_type_bw_medium

It is important to note when looking at defensive efficiency stats, higher values are WORSE (it means you're giving up more points per play). From this plot you can see that we are very good at defending BALL, which is probably the reason teams don't run it against us so much. We are not good at defending ISO, which similarly, is probably why teams run it against us so much. However, remember from last time, that ISO plays are not really efficient plays, so this might actually not be such a bad thing for us. Where we have major problems on defense, I would argue, are three areas: POST, SPOT, and TRANS. Here is a table summarizing the data for the Warriors defense last season (sorting in descending order by rate):

 

PLAY

RATE

PPP

SDRATE

SDPPP

TOT

100.00%

0.92

0.000

0.764

SPOT

19.10%

1.02

0.000

0.690

TRANS

13.80%

1.17

1.727

0.475

ISO

10.60%

0.88

-0.881

1.023

POST

9.90%

0.91

0.246

0.868

BALL

9.00%

0.78

-1.650

-1.084

CUT

8.50%

1.21

1.169

-0.552

OTHER

7.60%

0.40

0.999

-0.972

REB

6.40%

1.07

1.444

-0.146

SCREEN

4.70%

0.94

-0.400

0.778

ROLL

3.90%

1.02

-1.299

0.083

HAND

2.10%

1.01

-1.046

1.099

 

I'll just remind you that the two columns on the right with "SD" are the standardized representations of the RATE and PPP values, respectively, in terms of league averages. Here, SDPPP > 0 means our defensive efficiency is worse than league average, and SDRATE > 0 means we give up a certain type of play at a higher rate than league average. The table simply reinforces what the above plots showed, namely, that our defensive efficiency on SPOT, ISO, and POST plays needs to be improved. 

As I did last time, I want to show the results of a multiple linear regression analysis that I performed in an effort to try to understand which types of plays are most important for maximizing defensive efficiency:

Call:
lm(formula = TOT ~ SPOT PPP + POST PPP + BALL PPP + TRANS PPP + 
    OTHER PPP + ISO PPP + REB PPP + TRANS RATE, data = PPP2011_def_pivot)

Residuals:
     Min       1Q   Median       3Q      Max 
-0.36528 -0.15750  0.04531  0.12798  0.28213 

Coefficients:
            Estimate Std. Error t value Pr(>|t|)    
(Intercept) 0.001084   0.038752   0.028  0.97795    
SPOT PPP    0.405595   0.054487   7.444 2.56e-07 ***
POST PPP    0.255369   0.045460   5.617 1.42e-05 ***
BALL PPP    0.193931   0.060888   3.185  0.00446 ** 
TRANS PPP   0.187854   0.055651   3.376  0.00286 ** 
OTHER PPP   0.155197   0.043497   3.568  0.00182 ** 
ISO PPP     0.153785   0.048829   3.149  0.00484 ** 
REB PPP     0.134633   0.045206   2.978  0.00717 ** 
TRANS RATE   0.131741   0.046743   2.818  0.01029 *  
---
Signif. codes:  0 '***' 0.001 '**' 0.01 '*' 0.05 '.' 0.1 ' ' 1 

Residual standard error: 0.2122 on 21 degrees of freedom
Multiple R-squared: 0.9673,	Adjusted R-squared: 0.9548 
F-statistic: 77.63 on 8 and 21 DF,  p-value: 7.484e-14

For the most part, as one would expect, the defensive model shown above mirrors the offensive model that I described in the previous post, with two notable exceptions: 1) BALL appears here but not in the model for offense; and 2) ISO RATE does not appear in the model for defense. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on why these two parameters might be more important for defense than offense. I don't have a good explanation off-hand. Also, note that in the table above with the Warriors stats, I bolded the values that appear in the model.

The regression tells us that defending SPOT plays is by far the most important category of play type. Teams that fail to defend these plays will be at a tremendous disadvantage. Just to make it clear, the teams with the five best SPOT efficiency this season were (in order): CHI, MIL, BOS, MIA, and ORL. The five worst teams were: NYK, CLE, POR, TOR, and SAS. POST efficiency is the next most important category. The five best POST teams were: LAL, BOS, MEM, MIA, and ORL. The five worst were: LAC, SAS, PHO, DET, and TOR. And yes, it surprises me that San Antonio appears in the worst of both those categories, while Golden State appears in neither. It turns out that San Antonio was very good against BALL (SDPP = -1.325) and TRANS (SDPPP = -1.037), which helps to make up for those deficiencies. Overall, the Spurs appeared to be somewhat of an outlier, with respect to the model. But hey, this post is for GSOM, not Pounding the Rock, so let's move on with the Warriors analysis.

As I did last time, I will now go through each of the categories that appear in the model, focusing on how each member of our team contributes (or doesn't) to defensive efficiency. 

Spot-Up

League: 0.99

Warriors: 1.02

 

Player

%Time

PPP

Rank

Udoh

24.10%

0.74

12

Amundson

36.80%

0.90

97

Curry

35.30%

0.94

140

Ellis

27.80%

0.95

149

Lee

33.80%

1.00

213

Williams

35.10%

1.01

230

Radmanovic

38.60%

1.04

261

Wright

36.40%

1.13

332

Law

25.80%

1.17

360

Biedrins

26.00%

1.23

377

Thornton

45.60%

1.28

389

 

These numbers are really interesting. First, we see that Udoh is a stud. His length and ability to rotate and help on spot-up attempts is clearly valuable. We also see that Curry and Ellis come in with efficiencies that are actually (surprisingly) better than league average. In fact, it may surprise you to learn (I seem to say that a lot in these posts) that Dwyane Wade, whom you most likely think is elite in this category, only has a 1.04 PPP, which is actually rather pedestrian. Lee and Williams are a little worse than average, but not tremendously so. Dorell Wright and Biedrins are the two guys who appear to be the big issues here. It's not so surprising with Biedrins, he's not the quickest guy around. But Wright? He's long, has good hops, and is generally thought of as an above-average athlete. He was touted as a guy who was going to bring a defensive mindset and talent. I hope that with a more defensive-minded coach and a better scheme, Dorell could make tremendous improvement in this area. Otherwise, that is why I am so keen on drafting a guy like Chris Singleton who is known an a perimeter defender. I don't have access to all the positional averages around the league, but I took a look at the top teams against SPOT, to see how they did it. It looks to me like these teams have at least one or two guys who are tremendous at defending spot-up attempts. Chicago has three: Rose (0.83 PPP), Boozer (0.84 PPP), Deng (0.89 PPP). Now, whether that's a talent thing or a Thibodeaux effect, I can't really say. I think the good news here for us is that it's maybe not as bad a situation as it could be. If Udoh gets more playing time, if our new coach helps Wright utilize his natural physical tools, and if we, perhaps, add another good perimeter defender through the draft, we're not that far away from being, say, an average or even above-average team in this area. That should be, at least, somewhat encouraging. Another way to look at this is that our overall efficiency against spot-up attempts could be improved, if we had a better post presence, that would allow our perimeter defenders to actually stay out on the perimeter instead of collapsing the paint to prevent penetration. I'm guessing that Udoh's shot-block ability could help with that, too, but for other reasons, he may not be the long term solution down low.

Post

League: 0.87

Warriors: 0.91

Player

%Time

PPP

Rank

Biedrins

48.00%

0.73

40

Radmanovic

18.40%

0.75

56

Williams

6.30%

0.82

100

Curry

4.80%

0.83

107

Wright

10.50%

0.86

131

Ellis

9.90%

0.87

142

Amundson

34.60%

0.91

179

Lee

33.40%

1.02

248

Udoh

46.40%

1.05

265

Ah, one of the few good things that Biedrins provides: Post defense. It's unfortunate that he's so bad in pretty much everything else. Clearly, the major weakness that both Lee and Udoh have is POST defense. This is, well, inconvenient. Udoh helps in so many other areas on defense, so he could potentially be forgiven this, if he was not playing next to Lee, who doesn't do much really well on defense (except ISO, actually). Some better post defenders? Nene (0.88 PPP) and Marc Gasol (0.71 PPP) come to mind. DeAndre Jordan (0.81 PPP) is also strong in this area. 

Pick and Roll: Ball Handler

League: 0.82

Warriors: 0.78

Player

%Time

PPP

Rank

Ellis

25.70%

0.74

42

Lin

50.00%

0.75

51

Curry

31.10%

0.79

78

Law

37.40%

0.8

85

Wright

11.80%

0.82

102

Williams

17.50%

0.88

159

One thing that should be of interest here, besides the fact that we are pretty good at defending the ball handler coming off a pick, is the stats suggest how often Ellis is playing against opposing point guards. The rate at which he defends this play (25.7%) is much closer to Curry, for example, than it is to Williams (17.5%) who rarely plays the point or Dorell (11.8%), who obviously never plays point. From these numbers, I would guess that Ellis is switching onto opposing PG somewhere between 30-40% of the time. That's quite a lot. Kobe Bryant guards this type of play 15% of the time, but that's probably because the play turns into ROLL more often against him. Anyway, the bottom line is that we are pretty good at this right now, and Ellis is actually the main reason for that.

Transition

League: 1.15

Warriors: 1.17

Synergy doesn't keep individual stats for transition plays. Not sure why that is, but it doesn't give me much to work with. When you're a relatively small team that employs a risky, gambling style of defense and gives up a lot of long rebounds because you take a lot of jump shots, it's not surprising that transition defense would be a weakness.

Isolation

League: 0.84

Warriors: 0.88

Player

%Time

PPP

Rank

Udoh

16.90%

0.53

9

Law

16.00%

0.58

13

Lee

17.40%

0.68

51

Amundson

21.30%

0.79

133

Curry

15.70%

0.81

150

Wright

20.50%

0.88

220

Radmanovic

27.60%

0.96

274

Biedrins

12.80%

0.97

281

Ellis

18.00%

1.04

324

Williams

18.20%

1.12

340

Once again, we see a category where Udoh shines. Lee also appears to be a good iso defender, which is probably why we tend to hear that when he focuses on his man, he has the ability to be effective. (Although, to say it correctly, it's really the offense that is focusing on Lee, not the other way around.) Another surprising and counter-intuitive stat shown here is that Curry appears to be a much better isolation defender than Ellis. If you'll recall, Curry was also more efficient than Ellis in isolation on offense. This weakness of Ellis is probably the one glaring area that people recognize when they criticize his defense. And it really is glaring. Ellis turns isolation into an effective offensive play, when it generally is not. And if Ellis turns it into an effective play, Reggie Williams basically hands the opponent the keys to the rim and has a bottle of champagne ready for him after he scores.


Offensive Rebound

League: 1.08

Warriors: 1.07

This is another category where Synergy doesn't track stats for individual players. I would have expected us to be well below average in this category, but we're actually right around league average. However, we give up this play at a rate that is among the worst in the league (1.444 S.U.). My assumption is that if we were to fix our issues with post defense, it would simultaneously improve our defense in this area.

Summary

Overall, our defensive efficiency was among the worst in the league last season, and the main contributors to that were weaknesses against spot-up shooting (perimeter defense, Dorell?), transition (gambling too much?), isolation (Ellis?, Reggie?), and post-up (interior defense, Lee, Udoh). How do we fix all this? Well, it seems to me that some of it might be corrected by better coaching on the defensive end. I refuse to believe that Dorell Wright could not be a much better perimeter defender in a better scheme, and with more interior help to enable him to stay on the perimeter. The lack of post defense probably can't be fixed simply by coaching, and will need to be addressed by acquiring better talent. Lee and Udoh are just not big enough or strong enough to defend "the painted area". We really need a guy like Marc Gasol or Nene, or maybe even DeAndre Jordan, to help us defensively in the post. Jordan has other weaknesses, and I'm not sure he's worth a big long-term contract. Gasol or Nene would instantly (and obviously) make us a much better team. Having said that, Udoh might be the best guy to fill-in at center until we actually can land that asset. 

Comment 56 comments  |  12 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

one characteristic of our offensive pattern likely contributes to our defensive woes – the more Monta or Curry take off on an ISO drives the less likely we are to have TRANS defensive balance to stop the other team from fastbreaking . . .

great posts, loved both in the manner that they described what happened last year relative to the league and reinforced our widely shared observations that we are neither a good low post team offensively nor a good defensive club

now, if we could only land us the defensive guru and burly C/PF we so desperately need . . .

~ an original fan of the SF Warriors

by hardcore on Jun 4, 2011 9:34 AM PDT reply actions  

RE

Great post but your list included bench players that didn’t play much but you didn’t calculate Jeremy Lin’s numbers. Why?? Based on several other advanced metrics, Lin is right with Udoh in terms of best one of its best defensive players. His adjusted plus/minus, PER, and many other stats are actually comparable to an avg NBA starter…

by BayMind on Jun 17, 2011 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

next post

I think the next post in this series, whenever it happens, will look more carefully at the free agents that are available and which ones could help us most on offense and defense.

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 4, 2011 9:58 AM PDT reply actions  

I like that

Identify the categories synergy clearly shows us weakest in and organize free agents by them (and it wouldn’t hurt to show those free agents other stats)

by tafkasam on Jun 4, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Quick thought regarding BALL as a significant predictor

Perhaps in offense there are less teams with point guards who are exceptional finishers and/or shooters. Thus, it does not show on the offensive regression model.

Why would it show on the defensive model? Because shutting down (in)effective PGs at the P&R is pretty important for defense… I hope that thought is clear, though. It actually doesn’t read as clearly compared to what’s in my head haha.

by David Leezy on Jun 4, 2011 10:27 AM PDT reply actions  

My second thought now is...

Highly efficient P&R (BALL) is underutilized in offense and that other offensive plays contribute more to winning more games; however, there are games in which weak P&R defense is exploited for wins (Lakers weak P&R defense comes to mind).

The other idea here is how the P&R works generally. You go above/below a screen, you switch/don’t switch defenders. It’s more complex than something like a post up.

by David Leezy on Jun 4, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

This quote summarizes why I have a problem taking Synergy 'too seriously'
It’s not so surprising with Biedrins, he’s not the quickest guy around. But Wright? He’s long, has good hops, and is generally thought of as an above-average athlete. He was touted as a guy who was going to bring a defensive mindset and talent

Defensive rotation. Atleast in first half of season when Dorell brought a lot more defensively. He was constantly covering errors made by everyone else, which left his man open. Guy blows by Curry or Lee or Monta, Dorell rotates over, they make open pass to Dorell’s man, basket. He ends up closing out way too often on players who are squared up because of this.

Now what happened with dorell in the second half? Maybe it was fatigue or maybe the Warrior mentality got to him.

by tafkasam on Jun 4, 2011 11:28 AM PDT reply actions  

Well, Synergy is telling us something potentially valuable — even if it’s not “Dorell sucks”. I think you’re right: it’s all about the rotation, and as Evan says, coaching should help in that area. I read an article in SI recently on Thibodeau, which mentioned how much of an emphasis he puts on rotating out to corner shooters, which I think is the most difficult spot-up location to defend. Evan, where does Synergy rank the Ws on corner spot-ups?

Formerly ffgolden.

by ivanbe on Jun 5, 2011 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

. Evan, where does Synergy rank the Ws on corner spot-ups

They don’t break it out to that fine a level of granularity, unfortunately, at least, not what I have access to.

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 5, 2011 4:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Frankly, on a team that played no D, it was easy to be swept away with Smart's hype about Wright's D!

Wright is OK, that’s it. Not only did Smart hype his defense, but he also gave him the second-most minutes, and most 3PT shots on the team. For all his 3pt shooting, he is not all that efficient. He is actually the third-best 3PT shooter on the team. He is an OK player, nothing more.

by dinohealth on Jun 5, 2011 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I blame a lot of this on Smart

he featured Dorell way too much, often feeling like a second option.

As for defense, I’d agree, he’s not great defender but he is a competent team defender. A guy who next to Wade on perimeter can do his job well, and not hurt the team.

Still for his contract he’s a good value. Good signing overall but yes, I’m not willing to pass on a SF because ‘we got dorell’. Just like I wouldn’t pass on a better SG or Pf or PG for that matter (let alone center).

by tafkasam on Jun 6, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also on point guard D

Is their any question Monta is better than Curry on the PG? I mean some people try to post over and over again, they are the same, it’s simply not true. If Monta is on the PG, he can stay with his man way more than Curry, especially v. the more athletic types. I won’t call Monta an elite defender on PGs (certainly not) but he’s definitely above average, which for warriors, might as well be elite :)

Now this comes back to main problem, only way this works is if a) he can play PG on offense or b) we get a big PG who can guard 2 guardS. So back to same problems.

For what it’s worth, i feel a big reason we had success in game v. Chicago or games vs. OKC is because we can put monta on Rose/Westbrook and their SGs are offensively disgusting, so Curry can almost roam (I mean really, how worried are you about bogans/thabo). Once Brooks realizes Harden deserves 36 mpg this should change, but this year he didn’t.

Eitherway, unless we get a GREAT offer for Monta (you know… 2nd pick + cap relief for ex.) I still think best course of action is bring in a clearly defensive minded guard (marquis daniels if healthy?) and a coach who knows how to properly rotate the 3 guards, so we are only looking at about 24-26 mpg with the small backcourt. I do think we can win this way, many teams go small for large stretches. It’s limited upside, but that limited upside is not due to size of backcourt, but fact our front end talent is simply not good enough yet.

Trading Monta for Deng is a talent losing trade which gives us no cap relief. Deng does more things which help us win, we might get 3-4 more wins (max) but his contract still limits us, and unless we can move DLee and Biedrins for Howard, it’s almost worthless. The more intelligent moves if we were to trade Monta involve cap relief and young potential. Maybe Clippers would give us EG for Monta + the 11?

by tafkasam on Jun 4, 2011 11:36 AM PDT reply actions  

Maybe Clippers would give us EG for Monta + the 11?

why in the world would they do that?

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 4, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

if Monta is on the PG, he can stay with his man way more than Curry

From what I’ve seen, he just stands there and lets people run around him. He has no lateral movement. Curry at least chases his man down, crowding them as our bigs close in. Monta doesn’t do that.

I'm the soul brotha' like no other!

by Naticus on Jun 4, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't really help when he gives up a ticky tack foul though

Monta was pretty decent in each category but Iso and he said he will put on weight this summer to help him with that

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Jun 4, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

High ISO Rate

means a single opposing player is going off on you nearly every night. Which, as all of us here on this GSOM knows, did in fact happen.

Just about every night, some player on the other team had a career performance, despite in some cases, the Warriors performing fairly-well defending the other players. There is always at least one guy from the other team that lights us up, and sometimes it’s a role player or a guy off the bench.

Now, why that happens, I have no idea.

by MikeAucksbigg on Jun 4, 2011 11:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Typically someone always has a good offensive game v. every team

But yes, we tend to take it worse than others :)

I still think, our biggest problem is terrible defensive rotation/organization. Or I should re-phrase our first problem to sort.

So often someone makes a poor rotation, then they rotate ball and boom 2-3 points, be it a shot or dunk

by tafkasam on Jun 4, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just about every night, some player on the other team had a career performance, despite in some cases, the Warriors performing fairly-well defending the other players.

I know that this is a common fan perception. I’ve heard it for years, but I’m not really confident that this is as true as the perception would suggest. Several years ago, —pre ‘We Believe’ I went through every player in the league and charted which teams they had their career best scoring output against. The distribution was pretty close to random.

by jae on Jun 4, 2011 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

whoops
We are not good at defending ISO, which similarly, is probably why teams run it against us so much.

I made a mistake here. Looking again at the RATE plot, teams actually run ISO on us much less than league average. So, even though, we are not good at defending it, teams don’t run it on us that much. I guess they have so many other ways to score, that they don’t need to?

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 6, 2011 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

As always, Ev, Rec'd

Whatever value you place in synergy (thinking it’s almighty or disvaluing it) these posts spur great debate and perspective, which is why I love GSoM so much

by tafkasam on Jun 4, 2011 11:38 AM PDT reply actions  

As always, Ev, Rec'd

Whatever value you place in synergy (thinking it’s almighty or disvaluing it) these posts spur great debate and perspective, which is why I love GSoM so much

by tafkasam on Jun 4, 2011 11:40 AM PDT reply actions  

just note that the PPP listed there is from counterpart data

Iguodala’s PPP according to Synergy is 0.81 (#58). Monta’s is 0.91 (#266).

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 4, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know that lower is better I'm not dumb

But he’s better than Afflalo and Matthews for example who GSOM worships.

by SDtotheBay on Jun 4, 2011 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

why are you replying to me?

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 4, 2011 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually

we tend to worship Andre Iguodala.
I don’t think anyone on here is claiming that Wesley Matthews is a great defender. He’s a pretty good scorer.
It is worth noting from the DFR On/Off that Monta ranks worse on that list than everyone not named Stephen Jackson.

You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 5, 2011 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

that's a team problem..

when you have Curry and Lee on the same team, it’s hard to have a positive DFR.

by SDtotheBay on Jun 5, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

especially when you’re also a really bad defender.

You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 5, 2011 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Iggy isn't worth worshiping.

He’s a great defender and a horrible scorer that has a much worse jumper than Monta and keeps shooting and shooting. He fits in next to Curry well, but he has as much flaws as Monta.

by SDtotheBay on Jun 5, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Iggy has just about the same efficiency the last few years as Monta

if Iggy is “horrible”, what does that make Monta?

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 5, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Iggy is about as good at defense as someone like Dwyane Wade is at scoring.
Horrible? Hardly. Mediocre? Definitely. He is a very good passer, though.
He is not as flawed as Monta. He has weaknesses, but that’s why he’s gettable. If he was an above average scorer, he’d be a perennial all star.

You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 5, 2011 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

has a much worse jumper than Monta and keeps shooting and shooting.

He’s been a slightly more efficient scorer over his career than Monta (.555 to .537 ts). And, for all his “shooting and shooting” he has shot a whole lot less frequently than Monta (11.2 to 16.2 fga/36).

he has as [many] flaws as Monta.

Sure. I mean, other than the fact that he’s three inches taller, much longer, a vastly better rebounder, better at passing and taking care of the ball, and a defensive beast who can guard any guard or wing player in the league.

His jumper is definitely not his strong suit. But as you note, that’s where Curry (and Dorell and possibly Reggie) come in. That’s one flaw. Monta, exciting as he is, is basically a five-tool flaw, in that he (1) doesn’t rebound his position, (2) doesn’t defend his position, (3) isn’t particularly unselfish, (4) doesn’t take particularly good care of the ball, and (5) doesn’t score with particularly good efficiency. 1 < 5.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 6, 2011 5:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think in this case 1 > 5

;)

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 6, 2011 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ha, that too.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 6, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

So Curry and Monta really aren't that bad on defense

Except for isos which for smaller guys will be an issue but they are not these incompetent defenders as many claim them to be.

I think we just lack discipline , too many times we see good defense and then with like barely any time on the shot clock we gamble or just give up leading to easy points.

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Jun 4, 2011 1:46 PM PDT reply actions  

I wasn't

I was implying that they aren’t horrible defenders that both have been labeled, just super mediocre. Monta isn’t a good iso defender but his other defensive areas aren’t too bad. Steph is just decent all round it seems

I’m actually supporting these 2 and being positive, not lumping all the negatives of 1 into 2

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Jun 4, 2011 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, the way you wrote it wasn’t very clear to me. I thought the second sentence was referring to both of them and not just Monta. They don’t have the same defensive weaknesses.

You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 5, 2011 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Synergy is not the be it all measure of defense.

Andre Bargnani ranked pretty damn well in this. It’s not perfect.

"If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball." - Phil Jackson

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 5, 2011 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I understand that

But it’s helpful just like any stat but I think the eye test is the most important thing most of the time

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Jun 5, 2011 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

At the moment, the eye test may be the best.

But i think a combination of on and off numbers, synergy numbers, and some eye balling is the best way to go.

"If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball." - Phil Jackson

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 5, 2011 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

huh?

Bargnani’s overall PPP is 0.93, ranked #303

Where did you get “ranked pretty damn well”?

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 5, 2011 4:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

One or two years ago

he rated very highly in post-up defense.

You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 5, 2011 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, his post-up (0.89 PPP) and iso defense (0.68 PPP) are good. His spot-up defense (1.14 PPP) is awful and brings down his overall average. I wonder if he was paired with Udoh, if they might not make a decent frontcourt duo.

Offensively, Bargnani has a 0.95 PPP on post-ups, which is what we need. He also has a 1.1 PPP on ROLL plays, which is very good. His spot-up shooting (0.93 PPP) is not great, but we wouldn’t need it on this team with Curry and D. Wright (and maybe Klay Thompson).

Gosh, I’m almost talking myself into signing Bargnani if he can be had for relatively cheap. haha

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 5, 2011 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

not sure who would ever get rebounds in a Udoh/Bargnani frontcourt, though

:\

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 5, 2011 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stephen Curry's Shoes

Curry gave me the shoes he’s wearing in the picture above after the Portland game..

...And there goes the 1 man fast break

by Moneer Mujaddidi on Jun 4, 2011 7:40 PM PDT reply actions  

What shoes are those?

I am always curious if nba players have much nicer shoes or maybe have things in them to match/mesh their feet.

Dangerously? Yea.

by TooShort2Play on Jun 5, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Curry has worn Nike Hyperdunks for awhile. They’ve been one of the more common shoes worn by the pros over the last couple of years. Incidentally, whether influenced by his ankle troubles or otherwise, Steph will be wearing new kicks this coming season: the 2011 Air Max Flights.

Formerly ffgolden.

by ivanbe on Jun 6, 2011 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Great work, as usual...

I thought I’d post a link back to the game that I charted contested shots for because the findings on Wright’s poor performance on spot ups reminded me of something I noticed then.

Who failed to properly contest most often? Dorell Wright with seven. To be fair, he was very active and contested well eight times.

Sure this was only one game, but I did observe throughout the season that Wright would tend to give much more help than any of the other perimeter defenders, and often wouldn’t get back out to challenge on time. Some of the blame could surely go to giving up too much penetration from the guard spots, and some to poor rotations after giving help.

I’m curious how Synergy assigns credit/blame for spot-ups. If you start defending the SG and then move to double the post, then your man hits a three on a kick out with late defensive rotation, who get dinged with that one? I know I had a very hard time determining how to credit shots contested properly, and I’m not sure if they are putting the time in to look at things that critically.

Recap #60

by olympicmike on Jun 6, 2011 5:54 PM PDT reply actions  

yeah, it's a good question

I think he probably would get the blame

the question is whether he’s making the right decisions – he probably shouldn’t leave Ray Allen open to give help, but he could leave a guy like Thabo. It’s clear that Synergy doesn’t account for that.

If it was my full-time job, I would definitely try to factor in all those things.

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jun 8, 2011 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"UNSTOPPABLE BABY!"

Golden State Warriors rookie Marc Jackson to the Mavericks' bench, after hitting a lay-up during a 29-point loss (2000)


GSoM Crew -------------------------

Atma-160_small Atma Brother ONE

Gw090_small Fantasy Junkie

Natehead_small Nate Parham

--------------------------------------------------------

Small Hash

Small dj fuzzylogic

600px-olympic_rings_square olympicmike

Small IQofaWarrior

Shutterstock_10276351_basketball_mind_small Evanz

--------------------------------------------------------

We_still_believe_small R Dizzle

Small Adam Lauridsen

Small jae

Gsom_tony_small Tony.psd

Kanji_love_small Sleepy Freud

Japan_by_miaumi_small YaoButtaMing

Drmlg_logo-gmail_small Poor Man's Commish

Nellie2_small Feltbot