RUMOR: Golden State Warriors and Philadelphia 76ers Discussing Monta Ellis for Andre Iguodala Swap
by olympicmike on Jun 6, 2011 10:48 PM PDT
in Rumors
Email
Print
Somebody get me out of Philly
Ever since the first rumors surfaced of Andre Iguodala becoming available oh so many months ago, Warriors fans have been discussing a possible trade involving Monta Ellis. Well, it looks like the Warriors new-look front office are talking about that very trade with the Sixers. Jump to find out more!
According to Ric Bucher at ESPN:
The Golden State Warriors and Philadelphia 76ers have discussed a trade that would send the Warriors' leading scorer, Monta Ellis, to the 76ers for Andre Iguodala, according to league sources, including one with direct knowledge of Golden State's thinking.
The arguments for and against a possible Monta, don't-call-me-Iggy swap have been presented time and time again in the comments section of this very site, but I'm sure this bit of news will (and already has) spark the debate anew. Personally I'd love to see a deal that would both bolster our perimeter defense and provide better balance (no more Monta isolations) on the offensive side of the ball. It's a move that would seem to fit in with Mark Jackson's goal of shaping this roster into a tough defensive team that creates fast break opportunities.
As far as the details of the deal, well, there aren't many. Although, from the looks of Bucher's report, this may be one of those time when simpler is better.
Ellis is owed $11 million for each of the next three seasons. Iguodala makes $13.5 million next season and the contract increases by $1.2 million each of the next two years.
Their current salaries are close enough that the swap could be made without any other additional considerations and meet league salary-cap rules.
Looks like a one for one deal would fix the Warriors size issues in the backcourt, and provide the Sixers with some salary relief and an electrifying player for Philly fans to turn on in a year or so. Wow, what an exciting day for Warriors fans. If you haven't already, let us know how you feel about the Warriors hiring Mark Jackson as head coach in Evanz' poll. And of course let your voice be heard in the following poll and in the comments section here.
377 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
this is so tough
but considering how much i love monta ellis, if it’s this tough in my mind, that probably means we should make the trade.
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
I mainly say no cause of how expensive Iggy gets
Up to 15.9 million dollars in his 3rd year , that is a terrible contract. That money should only go to top tier players
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Top tier players like Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson
fact is, 2nd tier stars get paid just as much as first tier stars.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
That doesn't justify it
Or make it smart
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
The going rate for a player of Iguodala's calibur
is about what Iguodala makes. It justifies it completely. If we could play Iguodala a flat $12 M a year, that would be a steal.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think paying a guy like Iggy near a guy like Wade should ever happen
Just my opinion, I’m not for completely overpaying players
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Slightly overpaying, for one.
You have to take into account what guys like him get paid. The fact that he gets paid only $12 M or so this season is insane. Guys like him usually start at $15 M a year, not at the $10 or so he started at.
I’ll repeat- 2nd tier stars get paid just as much as first tier stars. the guys from 10-20 get paid as much as the guys from 1-9. It sucks, but that’s the way the salary structure works in the NBA.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
There is no way 16 mil is only slightly overpaying for Dre
That way too much for him
Guys who score 14 PPG don’t get his type of money usually
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Scoring volume...
It’s not high on our list of needs right now, no matter how sexy and irresistible you find it personally.
by olympicmike on Jun 6, 2011 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I know
But in general players in the NBA averaging 14 PPG don’t get that type of money
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Are you going to make a point based on that or just keep repeating it?
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
My point is him getting paid this much is unusual by NBA standards
Not that hard to understand
A guy like Joe Johnson may not be all that better then Dre but he has at least lead his teams to very respectable records and was a high scorer and got that type of money. Dre hasn’t done either of those things
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Yeah sure...
but it’s not like he couldn’t score more. He’s already shown that he can consistently be in the 18-20ppg range. I actually prefer him scoring less and focusing on the other areas of his game, but even if you boil it all down to ppg (which is not wise to do) it’s not like the guy has had trouble scoring more than 15ppg in his career.
by olympicmike on Jun 6, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You have a point -
-if you define what a player is worth in terms of how players tend to be (mis)paid: eg, PPG.
But it’s smarter to talk about what a player is worth in terms of how what he does on the floor actually contributes to wins.
By the former logic, Monta is underpaid. By the latter, he’s probably overpaid.
by Ronaldinho on Jun 6, 2011 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
But if you just look at the history of the NBA very rarely are there low scoring wings who make that type of money
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
There aren’t many wings who also play that good of defense while being a good distributor and a rebounder.
by DubsFan408 on Jun 6, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure.
But if you have a low-scoring wing who contributes a lot to winning … should you consider them overpaid just because they don’t score a lot?
by Ronaldinho on Jun 6, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That and
He hasn’t proven he’s good enough to lead a team or be a 2nd option on a great team. If he has then sure go for it but he hasn’t. He’s been the number 1 guy on a team not that much better then ours and the talent level is comparable
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Thats not true
And unlike Monta he has show he is willing to sacrafice stats to help team, and is well rounded. If you can get Iggy for Monta its a huge win for GS
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 6, 2011 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Monta sacraficed his body for the team
And it is true
When was the last time Iggy lead a great team? Or the last time he was the 2nd option on a great team?
Also Philly’s talent level is not too far off of ours imo
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
When was the last time Monta led a good team?
He wasn’t even the clear best player on a mediocre team. Iguodala was a clear best player on a team that made the playoffs last year.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He’s been the number 1 guy on a team not that much better then ours and the talent level is comparable
Well, first, we’re not looking for a “#1 guy.”
Second of all, you’re wrong on the facts:
He was the #1 option on the 08-9 Sixers, who were a .500 team.
He was the #1 option on the 07-08 Sixers, who were a 40-42 team.
So in fact, he was an above-average efficiency guy one of those two years (being average the other) so unlike Monta, he’s shown that he can be efficient while being the #1 option on his team.
Well, first, we’re not looking for a "#1 guy."
With David Lee and Iggy, I think a #1 guy is exactly what we will need to be looking for.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Let me clarify:
You’re not going to get a superstar player for Monta. You’re just not. Igoudala showed he could be an average-or-better efficiency player while being his team’s leading scorer – something Monta has never demonstrated. But Igoudala is almost certainly not going to be asked to fill that role on the Warriors.
Rather, he’ll probably be asked to come in and take the 2nd- or 3rd- most shots on the team, after Curry and Lee.
Rather, he’ll probably be asked to come in and take the 2nd- or 3rd- most shots on the team, after Curry and Lee.
Having Curry be able to run the point, and Iggy running some point could give us a lot of flexibility.
Though we may lose some offensive power trading Monta for Iggy, we may get a lot more offensive power from Curry playing alongside Iggy…
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Eastern conference, ron ron
You and I both know. Warriors would be .500 in East.
Anyway, I don’t think Iggy is reason Phili didn’t get better, I don’t think they have anyone offensively as good as Curry or even David Lee
Maybe we would be .500 in the east.
But …
During those years, Igoudala’s stats were better than Monta’s this year. So even if, for the sake of argument, I agree that them being .500 is the same as our under-.500 record this year, you still don’t end up with an argument for keeping Monta.
Iggy’s performance in those years still completely undercuts the claim that somehow Monta is more capable of being a first option than Iggy is.
Let me be clear, however: I don’t want Igoudala to be a first offensive option. I don’t think that’s his best role. I think he’s a very good complementary player.
But claiming that Monta has shown more as a first option than Igoudala has is just silly. He only has by one measure: PPG. By every other measure, Igoudala has been the same or better.
And that’s the argument Dubzfan is making.
It doesn’t hold any water.
well it's especially irrelevant in our case
Cause we have Curry, who is more adept to score like an effective first option than either.
We were not too far off .500 this year with Monta as the 1st guy
Again, I said we were not too far off of them as a team , they may be better but ever so slightly and they are in the east
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Yes. Indeed.
But you seem to have forgotten your own point.
You were suggesting that Monta was capable of being the #1 guy in a way that Igoudala wasn’t.
I don’t see how them being in the east makes your statement somehow true.
I never suggested Monta could be our number 1 guy
Just that Dre isn’t either
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Monta would only be valuable if he could be a #1
he brings nothing else to the table.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
really Rev?
IMO, Monta would be great as a 6th man / offensive specialist off the bench
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 8, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
He makes $11 M a year and sucks at basically everything that isn’t scoring. Maybe he could be a 6th man, but the guys who are kind of like him (Gordon, Terry, Crawford) are all better shooters and dribblers.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 8, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
We've reached as high as we can go
with Monta as the number one guy. He can’t play D and his offense is too flawed to make up for it. We aren’t looking at Kevin Durant’s offense on 0 defense. We’re looking at Westbrook-passing-rebounding.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Handing out $16 mil. contracts
Isn’t high on our list of needs either right now. No matter how sexy and irresistible you find it personally.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Usually,
but sometimes they do if they’re elite in just about every other way.
It is worth noting that he has had a few seasons in the 17-19 range. Last year, he was dealing with an injury that caused him to put up less impressive stats. He also plays on a slower team, so he gets fewer opportunities to score.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
You’ve been on this site a while now. Am I really reading this?
And what do contracts have anything to do with the impact a player has on the floor?
Monta’s is negative.
Iggy’s is positive.
It’s just a fact.
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 6, 2011 11:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
It's an opinion
Contracts are a huge part of the NBA now, you can’t avoid it. If you cripple yourselves with bad contracts that won’t take you far (Dre and Lee) your screwed
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
I agree but moving undesirable contracts is much easier than adding talent your team desperately needs in order to win games.
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 6, 2011 11:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
crippling yourself with bad contracts is bad
but trading a bad contract for an alright contract while getting the better player out of it sounds good to me
by bigkino217 on Jun 6, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
I don't think paying a guy up to 16 mil and he's not a big star
Makes his contract alright
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
eww
this is a false argument though!
Just because things could be worse, does not mean that they are not bad
…otherwise, we could just compare every contract to Hedo and Gilbert Arenas…be comin’ out roses everytime!
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 7, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
i know
it was a joke chill haha.
honestly though, by the time his contract costs us 16 mill, hes an awfully big expiring contract, which could have a lot of trade value based on the new CBA
word
but as far as salary considerations…
I’m worried about having Lee and Iggy on the books in a couple of years (as both contracts escalate)
but I’m with you. This is a move that needs to be made, if possible. We can always figure out future salary problems in the future
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 8, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
He makes $16 M
for one year of his career. What about the other years we’d have him where he makes less than $15 M?
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
He makes almost 15 mil in his 2nd year
Still not pretty
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
It's not pretty
but you’re being dishonest with how bad it is.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
look at the top 30. Iguodala by talent is a top 30 player. By pay, he is not.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
He only makes 16 mil one season
In which case he’d be an expiring. And not just that but a good player who is overpaid. If anything at that point he’s a highly asset. to be traded or re-signed much cheaper.
Not TERRIBLE, but not good
He’s one of the top defenders in the league. I’m all for it.
Can they just make the deal all ready...
thats a no brainer, slide Darrell to the two, Iggy plays the three, this won’t happen because it would have already taken place if Philly was down
Actually, I'd want Iggy at the two
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
our perimeter D
will be sick
AND UDOH
our defense will be UNSTOPPABLE BABY
by Anonymous1337 on Jun 6, 2011 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
It makes more sense with Iggy at the two
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I've always wanted a point forward
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
Remember me?
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
I remember swearing when he demanded a trade
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions
ahaha
I cringed everytime he made a decision.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
yes, I remember you
You’re the one that always took your time getting back on defense.
You’re the one that rather argue with the refs on a call rather than paying attention to the game.
You’re the one that threw up 5-10 shots per game that made me shed tears.
yeah, I remember you
that’s why I boo so loudly every time you come back into town
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 7, 2011 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Young fellah!!!
You’re missed here, buddy… not really, but it seemed like the polite thing to say.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
I get off Gsom for 3 hours an then mark Jackson is our coach
Ughhhh
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jun 6, 2011 10:57 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
We'd be swapping out Monta iso jumpers for Iguodala ones...
Andre is much better defensively, but his shot isn’t as good as Ellis’ and he settles for jumpers just as much. So we’d lose offense for defense. Don’t know how much I dislike or like this prospect.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
From an economics standpoint
the marginal benefit to our defense is larger than the marginal loss to our offense. This is because we play no defense. So the Warriors would benefit from trading some offense for defense.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
We also end up with an older player who costs more who is trying to force his way out of Philly
Who’s to say he’ll be any happier here? Monta wants to be here, that much is abundantly clear. He was honestly the heart and soul of the roster last year and its leader. That’s a role that he stepped into this past season, and one that he handled well, even if it was new. Iguodala has constatnly rejected a leadership role in Philly.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
by Brownie13 on Jun 6, 2011 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I actually thought Iggy turned it around this year
and anyways, cost is the last thing I care about after the Warriors overpaid for David Lee
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll be find if the trade either way, if it happens or not
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
*fine
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions
So him not showing up to team exit interviews shows how much he turned it around, yeah?
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
I liked his point forward role on the Sixers
but once again, either way I’ll be fine with the trade. I like Monta too. I just wish the Dubs didn’t overpay for David Lee.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Philly fans complained about his attitude this year as well
I like to stalk other websites and that is 1 of the things that caught my attention (other then the Piston’s liking Red Pandas and the Bulls loving Rose as much as MJ).
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Phillies fans always complain about him
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
He was.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Philly fans complain about everything
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jun 7, 2011 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
He’s 27 so he won’t get a whole lot better , has a worse contract then Monta’s , not really a leader or someone with a great attitude and wouldn’t really put us over the top
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Defense is half the game, so his contract is better, in my view. Significantly better. Andre will actually help us win, so Monta’s contract isn’t worth crap to us.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
by Naticus on Jun 6, 2011 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
He actually hurts us, his defense is so bad. He’s worthless for helping us win. We’ll win more without him. We’re paying him 11 million a year to hurt the team.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
You could make the argument -
- that Monta is the worst defensive 2-guard in the league (among players who saw major minutes), and that he’s only somewhere in the vicinity of average offensively, the way he played last year.
Not sure if that translates to 0 wins, but it doesn’t translate to a lot.
by Ronaldinho on Jun 6, 2011 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you think about it, if you check with our advanced stat guys, Reggie is a better defender. But the big complaint about Reggie in the D-League was his bad defense. That is to say, Monta’s defense is bad even for the D-League. He’s horrendous.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
by Naticus on Jun 6, 2011 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He will make 15.9 mil in his final year
Monta will stay around 11 mil , there is no way Dre makes us so much better to justify paying him about 16 mil
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
David Lee has a max contract
that is all
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
And I hate that
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Yeah? To what? Shouldn’t you save “yeahs” in replying to things that are true. Lee does not have a “max contract”.
by jae on Jun 7, 2011 5:15 AM PDT up reply actions
There is no way?
He’ll probably be closer to $16 M than Monta is to $11 M.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
What?
I just said Iggy will make around 16mil and Monta 11 mil
I don’t get what your trying to say
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
That Iguodala is THAT much better than Monta. At no point in his contract will Monta be worth $11 M. Iguodala will be overpaid in a couple years, but that’s the price you have to pay.
I was thinking about this earlier- Monta got his contract after he put up his efficient 20 points a game season. I think the assumption was that he could be a first option. You don’t just pay a guy who can’t play defense and is only a 2nd or 3rd option on offense that much.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You don’t just pay a guy who can’t play defense and is only a 2nd or 3rd option on offense that much.
Apparently you do….
And I don’t think Dre is worth the price we’d have to pay , I reserve that type of money for true stars
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Tell that to the rest of the NBA because that's how it works
You won’t get your true stars for that kind of money. You have to pay the market value and players have demanded more money.
Players get selfish
If I was a GM i’d rather have a team of a bunch of solid players making 5-9 mil then a very good player making superstar money surrounded by just average guys
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
We’d all like a superstar, but there aren’t that many of them. Sometimes, you have to play a star like he’s a superstar.
If your choice was to let your best player walk or to pay him a 6 years, $80 M contract, you have to give him the contract. While he does kill your flexibility, he is still your best player. Of course, it depends if he’s a second tier star like Iggy or a 4th tier star like Monta.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Well it depends on the market and how good that player actually is
Like if he was the best guy on the worst team you don’t do that (usually)
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Yeah
it depends on how best player he is. If he’s someone like Iguodala who is young, likely to improve and is already very good, I do it. As much as I love the guy, I don’t do it for someone like Kevin Martin.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Ew
I have never liked KMart, ever. The new Maggette
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Well, you know I actually like my scoring guards to be good, efficient scorers. The reason I don’t give Kevin Martin (KMart is the one with the lips) that contract is that he brings nothing else to the table aside from his elite scoring.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
But all he does is drive to the FT line and catch and shoot
He stops the ball and won’t make others better, aka Maggette
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
I’d point out that Kevin Martin can really shoot 3s, unlike Bad Porn over there.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Couldn't he shoot 3's with the Clips though?
And then just lost it here?
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
He could shoot 3s
but never like Kevin Martin. Maggette posted 1 season above 35%. Kevin Martin has average 38.3% on 3s for his career. He’s posted an above average 3P% for 5 of his 7 seasons, including 2 above 40%.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
the difference tween corey and kevin
on corey’s best night he will put up a line of :
32 points on 10-22 fg and 10-14 ft’s
on kevin’s best night he will put up a line of:
46 points on 10-13 fg and 22-23 ft’s
i wouldnt say kevin is as much as a ball stopper as corey because kevin is like a mini-melo just highly efficient
when corey ball stops its just to get his and he normally turns it over, offensive foul, or chucks a bad shot or gets baile dout
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 8, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno. Defense matters, a lot.
If they’re similar offensively, being a very good defensive player, instead of a terrible one, has got to be worth an additional 50% of your salary, right?
In other words, if Igoudala isn’t worth it in that final year of his contract – which he might not be – then it’s really hard to argue that Monta is worth his $11m.
(And yes, similar offensively. Monta’s scoring volume was better. Efficiency was similar. Dre’s impact on his team’s offense was better).
He's 18 months older than Monta Ellis.
They’re in the same boat as far as player development is concerned. Iguodala fits our team as constructed MUCH better than Monta Ellis.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Still
same boat as far as player development is concerned. 26 is when the development curve flattens off. I’d imagine that’s even more true for guys like Iguodala and Ellis who came straight out of HS.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions
He didn't?
What am I thinking then. Well, that’s even worse for Ellis.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Not put us over the top?
No – he doesn’t turn us into championship contenders.
He does, on the other hand, turn us into a team which wins the matchup at his position most nights.
I know we differ heavily on this
Mainly cause I think Monta is a top 5 SG so I won’t even go there.
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Iguodala is a top 5 SG
Monta isn’t a top 5 anything.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
That is where we will likely forever differ
No need to beat the dead horse
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
meh
I guess you are entitled to be wrong. It’s just insane to me. It’s like you don’t actually know anything about Andre Iguodala.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I think your thoughts are insane as well
Oh and this is Dre to me
- A great defender
-Great rebounder
-Good passer
-Average scorer
-Horrible contract
- A top 10 SF , maybe top 5 (I’d have to think about it)
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
You misread. I didn’t say what you think was insane, I said that your willful ignorance is insane. If there was a case that Monta was in Iguodala’s league, it would be one thing. The only way you can make that case is if you cover your ears, shut your eyes and scream at the responses.
Also- what about all of those things don’t add up to better than Monta?
Monta
Good scorer
Decent passer
Defensive sieve
What about those things make you think that he has a horrible contract rather than a bad one? It’s not an ideal contract. It’s basically fine until that last season, though.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm ignorant to stats
Cause I don’t think they are a great way of looking at players , so my opinion will seem very different
When have I said Monta doesn’t have a bad contract? I don’t think it’s as bad as Dre’s but I don’t think it’s good either.
For the record I think both should make around 7-10 mil . Definitely not 11+
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Cause I don’t think they are a great way of looking at players , so my opinion will seem very different
Funny, then, that the one argument you’ve made against Igoudala being worth his contract is statistical.
Very basic stats
I don’t like the stats you guys look at, all the “advanced” stats. You guys have ripped people for relying on PPG before as a reliable stat
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Let me clear my stat opinion up
Advanced stats I don’t rely on like you guys
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
We don't rely on them either...
we use them as tools to bring light to that which was once dark. ;-)
Just gonna throw this out there
I don’t think adjusted plus/minus is a one shoe fits all stat. Just because a person’s a minus doesn’t mean he should be playing less. Just because a guy’s a plus means he should be playing more.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly
I still have a healthy skepticism of +/- based numbers, meaning I don’t use them all that much personally. But I am open to reading analysis based on them. I’m actually not that into advanced stats, but I think it’s silly to ignore new information altogether.
Do you use hoopdata?
They have some great stats there. And it’s free!
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
actually...
that’s not true. During the season I was using that site pretty often to do research for game previews.
I don’t think adjusted plus/minus is a one shoe fits all stat. Just because a person’s a minus doesn’t mean he should be playing less. Just because a guy’s a plus means he should be playing more.
Sure.
But nobody is suggesting as much.
Monta’s +/- isn’t telling us anything that we can’t see if we watch the games and actually pay attention. It’s merely an objective shorthand which makes these points, which, if you’ve watched the game, you’d have noticed:
1) Monta is horribly defensively. He doesn’t put effort in at that end of the floor, and his physical tools are such that even if he did, it’s hard to believe he’d be very good at it.
2) Monta misses a tremendous amount of shots, which hurt his team’s chances of winning, in large part because of lousy decision-making and his relative inability to get to the line.
There are plenty of reasons to give yourself a little wiggle room in your statistical analysis, and this is definitely true when it comes to +/-. But at a certain point, with Monta, it’s not about “wiggle room” – he’s been a consistently negative statistical player for two years now, and it’s not hard to see why.
No, it appears you rely on simple, misleading stats -
- and on getting the facts like “Igoudala has never been the #1 option on a team” wrong.
So you like using the worse stats? That’s pretty sill of you.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
There not worse imo though
My opinion of stats are different, I don’t see TS as that much better then just looking at FG% then looking at FT% for example
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
You said it yourself.
You’re ignorant of stats. You’re not qualified to make that judgement.
My opinion of stats are different, I don’t see TS as that much better then just looking at FG% then looking at FT% for example
Doing it that way doesn’t account for volume of threes or free throws, which TS% does for you. Really, doing it that way isn’t any good at all.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
My opinion of stats are different, I don’t see TS as that much better then (sic) just looking at FG% then (sic) looking at FT% for example
Well, you may not see the difference, but there is one. Your argument seems to boil down to you being personally incredulous that it’s meaningful and then suggesting that your ignorance of the utility is somehow a sign that there isn’t actually much utility.
by jae on Jun 7, 2011 5:21 AM PDT up reply actions
TS% is a very good tool
It’s a singular stat that allows you to compare players and account for both 3pt shots and FTs.
"Though that reminds me of a quality razor and mr. t story
he said once nellie was freaking out in locker room telling them how badly they sucked in first half. And he was so made he didn’t realize he hadn’t zipped up from his pee and his junk was hanging out." -Tafkasam
by Badly Browned on Jun 7, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
You like to point out that Iguodala scored only 14 PPG last year and that’s pretty much the only thing you’ve said about it.
It’s also hard to be ignorant of something and have a good idea of what it’s good for. It’s like an old sportswriter complaining about the lack of quality blogs on the internet. Whether it’s true or not, the only way he could know is if he spent a good amount of time doing research.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually wasn't talking about Monta's contract at all
I was talking about Monta as a player.
The fact that you think Monta=Iguodala+the 16th pick or whatever shows that you think Monta is the better player. He just isn’t.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
You’re entitled to your opinion but your opinion is wrong. The only horse beating that’s happening is your insistence that Monta’s value is higher than it is in reality.
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 6, 2011 11:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
And I think your opinion is wrong
That simply won’t change, I’m not a huge believer in stats . Take that as you will
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
But you believe in unicorns in the form of a Monta Ellis highlight.
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 6, 2011 11:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Well let's start with the fact that Iguodala is a SG, not an SF.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 6, 2011 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
He was a SF this year
Meeks was the SG
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
I mean if he was to play here.
He’d play SG.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 6, 2011 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I should re-phrase. Monta’s impact, not value. His value apparently is quite high if Philly is considering trading for him.
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 6, 2011 11:19 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey guys can we put this topic to rest?
Some people like Monta. Some people don’t like him. There have been several shouting matches already. No need to make any more.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Step one...
is proper and thorough player evaluation. I get the sense from reading your posts tonight that Monta is your favorite player, and you aren’t really interested in taking an unbiased look at how these guys match up.
He is , never denied it
And I said I’d trade him for Dre if they through in a draft pick
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Oh I know...
I’m not saying you are being dishonest or anything, I’m just saying that maybe you should allow for the fact that him being your personal favorite might be hindering your judgment on this one.
I voted for the trade
but I’d be fine if it fell through. It looks like it’s not going to be a straight up trade. And since the Dubs can’t trade first rounders, I can only think of one possibility…
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
It looks like it’s not going to be a straight up trade.
What source are you referring to?
I actually wouldn’t expect it to be a straight up deal, because personally I think Andre is significantly more valuable even with his contract. I’m not sure what kind of sweeteners would be necessary though. It might be a good sign that the conversation seemed to start at a straight swap, but we’ll see I guess.
Logic
these rumors take a day or two to get out… meaning that the two sides couldn’t come to a quick agreement. So it’s not a straight-up trade.
As for sweetners… since the Dubs can’t trade first round picks, it’s either giving them one of our young players (ugh) or drafting a player the Sixers want in this weak draft.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Well...
technically we can’t make any moves at the moment anyway, but the wheels are in motion, and hopefully West and company can come out on top.
Oh yeah, forgot about that
here’s a freaky thought: what if this was actually a smokescreen for a BIGGER TRADE?
I wouldn’t put it past West.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I must admit...
I haven’t been this excited in a while. I’m not a big fan of the Mark Jackson hire, but West has earned the benefit of the doubt in my book, and this is the time of year Warriors fans live for. Well, not exactly this time of year (NBA Finals) but you know, soon…
Every new offseason is filled with hope. Let’s hope this one doesn’t end in disappointment.
nah
Salaries wont work
maybe we trade drafted players (to get around the rule)
Otherwise, I would bet they are going to want Udoh
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 7, 2011 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Listen
you can’t be THAT much of a liability on either end and still be top 5. He’d have to be a transcendent offensive player to make up for his transcendentally poor defense.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Again
I don’t think his offense is a liability as you already know
Also there are plenty of guys who suck on defense who are considered great players (Melo for a quick example, Rose etc)
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
You do understand how both Melo and Rose are much better than Monta offensively, though, right?
If a guy’s a top five player at his position, there shouldn’t be a ton of players who are much better than his offensively, right?
I do
And I believe that for Monta, I already know most people on this website don’t agree with me on that and I’m okay with that. This is only a very small portion of out fan base
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Melo and Rose are better defenders than Monta, if only by a little. They’re also much better offensive players. Rose carried an abysmal offense to mediocrity. Melo actually does improve his teammate’s efficiency. Monta’s supporters will claim he does this, but the numbers don’t bare it out.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn
you got me.
How about Top 5 in gambling for steals? Maybe even top 1.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is it possible to be a top 5 SG if you're the worst starting SG in the league defensively?
Or if your offensive +/- has been negative for the last two years?
Calling Monta a top 5 SG is nonsensical. Defense matters – and we’ve consistently been a better offensive team when Monta was off the floor.
by Ronaldinho on Jun 6, 2011 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
monta has the talent to be a top 5 sg but since he cant play a lick of d
guys like joe johnson, iguodola, ray allen, kevin martin, and eric gordon are seen as much better than monta in their worst years since gettin paid(the first two) or seen as an equally impactful talent on the court(the latter three)
all the best sg’s can all play defense: kobe, manu, wade, joe, iggy, even ray. if you are two guard that cant play d you are seen as a jason terry or jamal crawford instead
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 8, 2011 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
From an economics standpoint
We’d be lossing $2-5 mil per year plus the marginal loss to our offense for that marginal benefit to our defense, and eating up more cap space (which gives us less options to acqure another talent). Is that total package worth it?
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
when you have 0 offense and players who are better at scoring than Monta.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
he doesnt chuck up half the shots
so he doesnt hand over possesions
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
strange as it sounds
my biggest red flag about this trade (other than Iggy’s contract), is Iggy’s attitude. He’s been quiet recently, but he wouldn’t accept being the #2 on a team behind Allen Iverson. How’s he going to feel about being #2 behind a player much younger than he is? Hopefully well, given team USA experiences. But he reminds me of SJax in the sense that 3 years immediately makes me think “ugggh, i wonder what he’ll be acting like in 2 seasons.”
I’m obviously hesitant to trade Monta because of his massive talent…i’d love to see a coach try to funnel it so it’s not detrimental to the team.
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
by bradyk2 on Jun 6, 2011 11:03 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I hear this concern but disagree and have another
His attitude and play in the USA team was great – and he and Curry our friends, and Curry wants him on the team. Plus, his reasons for being frustrated in Philly are legit and should sound familiar. When he signed his big contract he also was told it would be HIS team, then they struggled to move AI. Plus, he was told big names would join him – Elton Brand not exactly what he had in mind is my guess. Then, they draft Evan Turner, which told Iggy that he was expendable. I think Iggy wants to leave but I also think at times, he could have handled things better. If he is on the Warriors he is the only guy we have like him, the other players compliment his game, and he will be the undeniable starter in his spot.
My concern with Iggy is not his attitude but his game. Is he on the decline? Will he be in the next couple years. I hope that his drop in numbers is due more to the team having more offensive talent around him than him falling off.
I agree with your last point – I think a better coach could make Monta both play better defense and be more efficient (the two reasons so many here seem to want to trade him for a bag of chips). If he isn’t traded, I’d be curious to see how Mark Jackson would use him. Like how NY used a young John Starks?
by Togna Balogna on Jun 7, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
If I actually believed in the basketball gods, I’d be praying so hard to them right now that this trade goes through. PLEASE let this happen. We will be SO much better.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
by Naticus on Jun 6, 2011 11:10 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
This could be good or this could be ugly
But one thing’s for sure: any other team in the NBA with an interest in Monta will pick up the phone now…
I'm feeling...I feel like I want to rage. Right now. - B. Wilson
Y'all are all overrating Iggy
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jun 6, 2011 11:24 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
In what way?
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
In a lot of ways actually.
He is a poor offensive player, but I’m okay with that, his contract is worse then Monta’s and if we trade for him, our two highest players will both be extremely overpaid. Be honest here do you think swapping Ellis for Iggy is gon get us in the playoffs?
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jun 6, 2011 11:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not against the trade
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jun 6, 2011 11:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
His contract is bigger than Monta’s, but he’s a better player so it isn’t any worse.
He isn’t a poor offensive player, though. He’s an elite passer. He is, though, a fairly mediocre scorer. Has been above average at times in his career and below average at other times.
I think a Monta for Iguodala swap could get us at least 5 more wins next season. I think Iguodala’s scoring improved by playing with good offensive players and I think his passing helps out the rest of our team. We also could have a situation where his elite defense helps raise the bar for everyone else a la KG in Boston or Tyson Chandler in Dallas.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Good points
My main problem with Iggy is that it seems that his play has been declining the past few years.
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jun 6, 2011 11:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, he dipped in 09-10. Last year, I think it was mostly an injury. It was the first year in his career that he’s really been injured.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. That's the biggest concern.
How much of last year was his injury? How much of his efficiency dip these last two years is a fluke?
I think it gets us closer
If we get a center like Gasol/Nene (which might be possible under new CBA), even with Monta we’re likely struggling for 8 seed cause of defensive vunerability. If we made the trade and got that center, assuming curry stays healthy (and Jackson uses him correctly) we should be a 50 win team
With Jackson being a first time coach
I don’t think he’ll have the ability to rein in Monta’s inefficiency on offense. Nelson couldn’t, Smart didn’t want to. The possibility of trading Monta becomes all the more important then.
by ohcleverhansyou on Jun 6, 2011 11:26 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
not straight up. monta is a borderline all-star. iggy is lucky to sniff all-star weekend again
plus the offense you lose compared to the defense gained heavily favors philadelphia. it would be up to them to figure out monta/jrue/evan/lou
i think like monta and reggie and a pick swap for iggy and thad would be more favorable for the warriors
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 6, 2011 11:29 PM PDT reply actions
I don't see them trading Thad for Reggie
Reggie was good. But Thad was lightning in a bottle.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Monta is only a borderline all-star because all-star voting -
- follows PPG (see “The Wages of Wins”) and highlight reel plays, Monta’s two areas of strength.
When it actually comes to what he contributes to winning, Monta is not an all star. Not even close.
by Ronaldinho on Jun 6, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and a half-hearted iggy is?
i’d rather fill the bench up with ronnie brewers, deshawn stevensons, jarret jacks, etc to pair them up with monta and steph after 1st quarter subs
i like iggy but come one dude has taken a huge backseat to being a leader and a star the last 3-4 years.
if he hated AI, brand, and turner how will handle steph, lee, and third x-factor? he’s not a first option on offense or he chooses not to be but yet he wants the ball in his hands all the time? he still cant shoot deep
and adding him? how much does the warriors defense improve? is he going to make the other 4 positions d up and react properly in help situations etc.
i feel the warriors are approaching this wrong. when monta first came in he had the perfect surrounding with a big body pg(diddy) and a plethora of great wing defenders(barnes, air france, capt jack, buike)
if the warriors had a shaun livingston or jarret jack at point with chirs singleton, deshawn stevenson, and another backup defensive wing and at least one frontcourt big that could play consistent solid defense i think they could implement a zone defensive scheme and cover up monta and stephs defensive shortcomings
also monta could bulk up and become an nfl linebacker playing the 2 guard
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 8, 2011 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
i feel the warriors are approaching this wrong. when monta first came in he had the perfect surrounding with a big body pg(diddy) and a plethora of great wing defenders(barnes, air france, capt jack, buike)
if the warriors had a shaun livingston or jarret jack at point with chirs singleton, deshawn stevenson, and another backup defensive wing and at least one frontcourt big that could play consistent solid defense i think they could implement a zone defensive scheme and cover up monta and stephs defensive shortcomings
Well, here’s the question:
Ultimately, I agree with that – if you want the Steph+Monta backcourt, you can to do something like you describe above.
The question I have for you is:
What about Monta makes that such a winning strategy?
If Monta were a Lebron or Durant level offensive talent (high volume, high efficiency) I’d agree with you. If he were a genuine offensive superstar.
But he’s not. Genuine offensive superstars don’t score with below-average efficiency.
The only way for the Monta-Curry backcourt to work is to build the entire team around it. That’s not only difficult (because it means moving Lee, which will be hard to do right now) but begs the question if that backcourt is good enough to build an entire team around.
I think the answer to that is no. Monta, at best, is still a very limited player. Curry hasn’t reached a Nash-like level yet, and honestly the odds are that he won’t (although we can hope) but he clearly fits better with the other pieces we have than Monta does.
When Monta had his best year, yes, he was in the right situation – but that team wasn’t build around him. He was a player who was asked to do two things, really (score off the ball, and run up and down the court like a gazelle). It worked because he had a top-tier point guard getting him the ball.
Recreating that would be an interesting idea – but isn’t it easier to build something else than to try to rebuild that particular – and rather unique – mix of talents?
it is hard with lee and bieds making so much money
but i think this team needs more than dumping monta for one guy which is not equal value unless his name is lebron, wade, or durant
for one monta and steph are basically the same. dorell as much as he can hit threes still has his shortcomings putting the ball on the floor and dribble-driving and losing his tunnel vision when his defender closes out on him.
there is almost no production out the 5 spot and lee is undersized even for a 4 because he’s not a big bulky dude just half-husky. and the bench please dont get me started
i think the team needs a culture change. nellie could win with defense(as he did in milwaukee) i think if they got jackson the right pieces they could erase the run and gun outscore em style and play more get defensive stops and run style thus decreasing the half-court possessions of monta iso before the late 4th quarter
i know monta cant defend but he has effort. if the frontcourt knew how to help and defend i would tell monta and steph to harass their man at the halfcourt line and run them off open jumpers to the big guys
and its not just monta. the team cant defend in general. there was no average perimeter defender and udoh was the only decent post defender.
steph, monta, reggie, dorell, lee, acie, vlad, thornton- none of these guys are solid defenders save for dorell if he ever used his height on defense
look how chicago blossommed from a .500 team to a 60 win team because they got defenders. but as you saw in the playoffs even though he was overpaid ben gordon was a crucial missing piece to the bulls in the playoffs
instead of rose, gordon, hinrich, salmons, deng or rose, bogans, brewer, korver, deng we can have something in the middle with steph, monta, defensive backup point, defensive wing 1, defensive wing 2, dorell wright
and defensive guys dont get big money. i think ronnie brewer may be the most overpaid perimeter defender but he makes 4.5 million a year. if they spent 4-8 million on two or three perimeter defenders and got singleton and got any production out the 5 spot the warriors would be in good shape
if jj barea and jason terry can go up against the miami heat backcourt the warriors can do the same. either this team goes all out for sam dalembert and draft singleton or they pray udoh and bieds come back in full force and they add a bunch of 1-3 mil a year defenders
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 9, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Silly comment
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
That trade you posted
would make us a full on play off team.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Shane Battier won’t sniff All-Star weekend but his role on the Grizzlies was the one of the biggest reasons they made it as far as they did. Not Rudy Gay, who is either almost an All-Star or was, I forget.
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 6, 2011 11:38 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
He's busy irdering his Philly gear hopefully.
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Jun 6, 2011 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
*ordering
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Jun 6, 2011 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
There's more to the trade than who our starting 2 guard will be.
No longer will we have two 6-3 guards in our backcourt. We will have a typically sized-point guard who struggles on defense, and a 6-6 shooting guard who is a known for his great defense. Looks like a nice balance to me. On top of this, Curry becomes our point guard (In my eyes, last year we played 2 small shooting guards) learning from a great point guard in new coach Mac Jackson.
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Jun 6, 2011 11:36 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
THIS
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Jun 7, 2011 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions
we don't improve at all
we need to trade Monta or Curry for Nene or another good center.
then we keep Monta
all trades in the back court are moves that won’t help us unless it’s for a player better than Curry/Monta. Iggy is not. He might fit better with Curry, but we won’t be better.
We would
because he complements Curry really well instead of conflicting with him.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't..
Iggy can’t shoot and is similar of a playmaker to Ellis.
HA
Iguodala is a better playmaker than most point guards. He also plays defense. With him, we wouldn’t have the problem of two undersized guards.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know he's better
but his playmaking style is similar.
Yeah, it is, but it’s way better. You could say the same thing about Wade, but there isn’t a soul alive who would say that Monta is better at passing than Wade.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
He was a great passer this year, but he’s always been a good passer. Since 07, he’s averaged an assist rate of 30.13, which is very good.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
He has avg over 5 asts a game for last 5 years
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 7, 2011 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Who would you consider better than Monta at the 2?
Only Wade and Kobe? You have to take into account size and defense as well. Iguodala is a more complete player and a guy that will help more. Monta is one of my favorites, but it would be best for the team.
Maybe Gordon for future if I have a good PG (we don’t). Manu when healthy.
Iggy is a crappy scorer (not volume, but bad efficiency) and shooter. The jumpshots he takes are pathetic and will make you go crazy.
He actually isn't that bad of a scorer
For most of his career he has had a solid fg% and would porbably improve coming into a more open offense.
he's a terrible shooter
like Monta rookie year terrible..and he thinks he’s Kobe on offense especially in the clutch
Iguodala shot 33.7% from 3 last year.
Been at 30-33% for basically his whole career. Really, he’s more like Monta 2 years ago than Monta 5 years ago.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I see that he finished the year hot from jumper
I remember him being at 38% eFG from shooting at all-star break
Yeah, he had a solid march
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions
the last time iggy was the 3rd or 4th option in the offense
he had a TS% of around .580
Too bad you need a really good wing player to trade for a big like Nene (and no Monta is not really good). It’s rare you see a guard traded for a big. And why would the Nuggets need Monta? They have wing players like Chandler, Gallinari, Afflalo, who play offense and defense (Smith is probably gone).. Felton also plays the 2 sometimes
Monta is good
Afflalo is a worse defender than Monta by your precious advanced synergy stats.
We’re all pretty skeptical of synergy in general. Their methodology is very opaque. It is more data, though, and that’s always good. Afflalo regular posts great defensive ratings which has to be considered. Monta’s synergy numbers are marginally better than Afflalo’s, but Afflalo’s DRTG kills Monta’s.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s hard to figure out exactly how synergy gets its numbers. If Monta lets a guy blow by him and someone else contests the shot, but they score anyway, whose Synergy rating does that go against?
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
who knows
but I’ll take Nene/K.Mart rotating over Lee/Biedrins
I would too, but that wasn’t my point anyway.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions
The initial defender is responsible for the outcome.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 7, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Good
That way definitely makes more sense.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Not always...
If you move to double by design, and there is supposed to be crisp rotation to your man and it comes late that shouldn’t be your fault. Of course, if you can’t look at every play and know exactly what was supposed to happen the way they do it is right much more often than not.
How ?
I bet Curry could fetch us Bynum if we wanted to , he’s a up and coming PG which is coveted
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
He’s injury-prone enough and the Lakers have a big enough need at PG, that they might bite. Well, if it weren’t for the fact that they’re likely to try to trade Bynum for another big, hoping someone will give them the deal they’re looking for.
Personally, I wouldn’t take Bynum for Curry, because Bynum has been so injury prone. Otherwise, it’s a no-brainer. You’d have to.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
The Lakers dont need a good PG to be successful with the triangle. If Curry is just going to be regulated to shooting threes for the Lakers, it makes little sense for them to trade Bynum for Curry.
They are done with the triangle
Phil is gone
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Depending on new CBA we could sign Gasol or Nene
Reports are, hard cap @ 67-70 mil, and we can rescind one contract off the books. Theoretically it’d be Biedrins. if we did this swap, and cut biedrins contract we’d be somewhere around 42 mil committed after signing our pick, giving us 25 mil to play with. Center + saving some money for Steph.
Now what do you think of that team?
Curry, Iggy, Dorell, Lee, Nene (or Gasol)
I think that’s a 50 win team, potential for a little more depending on Curry’s development. Clearly we’d need to deal Lee for another real all-star if we wanted to make the jump to elite teams.
Do it.
2 guards are the easiest to replace. This immediately makes us better and Iggy plays D, something where we are sorely lacking. We need to revamp the majority of the roster; Curry, Lee, Monta, Reggie, Vlad, and Thornton are all below average defenders. With the first 4 I mentioned possibly being some of the worst at their positions.
This team needs a whole change of philosophy. And Lacob and Co seem like they’re intent on doing it.
"I'm not a big vegetable guy'' he says. -Tim Lincecum
Quick reminder
Thornton, Reggie, and Vlad are not under contract
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Jun 6, 2011 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions
we don't get better
we become worse offensively and a little better defensively (perimeter defense isn’t all that)
I don't believe so.
-10 PPG
-.06 FG%
-.09 FT%
-.6 Steals
+2.3 RPG
-1.1 Turnovers per game
-8.8 FGA per game
+.7 APG
Monta’s defense is a huge deterrent, his constant gambles for steals and blocks and frequent defensive miscues can’t be seen in his individual stats. This makes us bigger, lets the team as a whole touch the ball more often, and will give Curry and Lee some space.
"I'm not a big vegetable guy'' he says. -Tim Lincecum
better/easy
monta/beidrins/draft for mayo/allen/gasol
trade rape
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 6, 2011 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Return a "favor" that won't be accepted by the other team?
"I'm not a big vegetable guy'' he says. -Tim Lincecum
if we trade for iggy
then i’m buying that jersey the first day possible
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
Jerry West on the possibility of the trade
At least in my mind, I don’t see anything like that happening. Larry and Bob certainly would be better people to answer than me.
I just think it’s been a really good day for the Warriors. With more good news to come tomorrow possibly.
We’ll have a solid staff in place and that’s a building block. They can live with these people not for one or two years, but they’ll have a place in building this franchise to not only where Joe wants it but where the fans want it.
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Link
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
West said Ellis’ name will always come up because other teams want him and said as far as he knew nothing like that with Philly is happening. But that’s hardly a vibrant denial, and you’ve got to figure West knew it wasn’t.
Doesn’t sound like he’s denying it. FO guys usually keep quiet about that kind of stuff anyways.
I find this part interesting
At least in my mind, I don’t see anything like that happening
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
It's not my mind
West said it
I found it interesting cause everything that has just happened looks like it’s Wests work and then for him to say that seems odd and unfitting
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
talk about a specific trade discussion. Just like at the deadline when we almost got Jamison, but Riley never came out and ta
It seems like the standard for the FO to be hush hush on trade talk with the media this soon. Rarely do you see guys come out and talk about a specific trade discussion. Just like at the deadline when we almost got Jamison, but Riley never came out and talk about te actual discussions.
True
But West said he doesn’t see it happening, thats different then being hush hush. Thats him saying he doesn’t think it happens
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
I think the more good news will be filling out the coaching staff
Seeing as though were actually not allowed to start trading yet
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Please use the quote box. It’s really not tough to do. The way you have posted it looks like those are your own words.
by jae on Jun 7, 2011 5:32 AM PDT up reply actions
We need to look at the whole picture
Iguodala is a very good team player. He’s a great passer, creates spacing, gets people open, and is a very good defender. Why do you think peope have said that the only other player in the league witha similar skill set to LeBron in Iguodala? Yeah we’d miss Monta’s amazing shots, but overall Iguodala is better for the team than Ellis.
I think it would be a good trade for Philly.
Iggy plays defense, but I’m not sure he would fit in on your team. I think he would fit better on our team though.
Important not to overlook how this effects Curry
He loved playing with Iggy on USA team and they were close – stated that he would love to see him on the warriors.
Also, it makes Curry the true floor leader, especially with Mark Jackson in his ear, and he won’t need to worry about upsetting Monta or knowing how to be on the floor when Monta had the ball. Curry’s best games seemed to be when Monta was hurt or in foul trouble, curry was looser on the floor, seemed more in command and was having fun. I love Monta but if this helps Curry play better and be the team leader, then it is a great move for us.
However, all that being said, I dount Philly pulls the trigger unless we give up more.
by Togna Balogna on Jun 7, 2011 12:54 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe Monta +11th for Iggy + 16th pick
I don’t know if that makes Philly want it more, but maybe if they fall in love with some player in the draft, they’ll do it.
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jun 7, 2011 1:09 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Since we are taking on so much more money in the trade
How about Philly just gives us the 16th pick, and we keep the 11th too.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but we’re also taking on the better player.
I’d gladly do Monta + #11 for Iguodala + #16 if that’s the only way the deal could be consummated. Of course, I’d love it if Jerry West could use his magical powers of persuasion to make it a straight-up swap. Asking them to sweeten the deal seems too fabulous to hope for, but who knows: with the Logo in the house, all things are possible!
There will be no extra point!
Remember that there really is no such thing as a straight up deal in this case. Even the straight up deal amounts to us getting rid of Monta PLUS $2-5 mil./year for the next few years.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
The only reason we could do this trade
is that Iguodala has about $3 M per year more on his contract than Monta. Iguodala is the better player by far. If he made only $11 M a year, the Sixers wouldn’t be looking to move him.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Whatever the difference is in talent between Monta and Iggy
I’d say we are paying for it in increased salary. While we are getting the better player, they are getting the better/cheaper contract. I’d say the packages are fairly even, no need for us to give up our 11th pick, which could be nice for us to use after making a big move like this.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
if they gotta trade him
GET DWIGHT HOWARD!
a G/F is not needed. we already have DWright.
plus, i think monta is WAY better than Iggy. can they include a decent young C/F as well?
"I am not prettier than your girlfriend, you just like ugly girls."
- an extremely confident man, maybe a pretty b*tch.
THANK YOU, BASEDGOD.
GO A'S, RAYDUHZ, WAHREEUHZ, AND FRIGGIN' CHELSEEEEEEEAAAA!
I mostly come at night, mostly.
by DEBACLE OF MASS ERUPTION. on Jun 7, 2011 1:05 AM PDT reply actions
They have Spencer Hawes....
So no they can’t
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Spencer Hawes?
The last time I heard that name, I was BELIEVING.
"I am not prettier than your girlfriend, you just like ugly girls."
- an extremely confident man, maybe a pretty b*tch.
THANK YOU, BASEDGOD.
GO A'S, RAYDUHZ, WAHREEUHZ, AND FRIGGIN' CHELSEEEEEEEAAAA!
I mostly come at night, mostly.
by DEBACLE OF MASS ERUPTION. on Jun 7, 2011 2:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, do it.
Perimiter D will improve. Got nothing but love for Monta and his scoring ability but, yes to this trade.
will
monta get the logo tat lasered off? or is he going to modify it to make it look like the sixers logo.
So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!
by 24k state fan since 87 on Jun 7, 2011 3:01 AM PDT reply actions
I would be in favor of this trade
but then I’d probably turn around and trade Iggy for the #2, which I think is plausible.
But then I think to myself, wait, hold on, why wouldn’t Philly trade Iggy for the #2? They need a center, not another combo guard. How does Ellis fit into the starting lineup there? Holiday, Ellis, Turner(?), Young(?), and Brand(?)? Maybe that could work. Seems to me Philly would be better off getting Valanciunas or Kanter and moving Turner to SG:
Holiday
Turner
Young
Brand
Kanter/Valanciunas
That’s what I would do.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)
But then I think to myself, wait, hold on, why wouldn’t Philly trade Iggy for the #2?
Speculating here, but it’s probably harder to trade a big contract for a high draft pick, which is still an unknown. I think Philly’s in a position to keep improving, not develop young talent. So, I guess with Monta, they know what they’re getting, which is comforting.
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 7, 2011 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions
dont forget meeks was the starting two
depth chart i believe was
jrue/lou
jodie/evan
iggy/thad
thad is an rfa and if they swap iggy for ellis they defeintely have to move someone out the backcourt. i assume it would be jodie but collins started him because he was the only guy that wasnt a point guard that could stretch the floor
i think this is a decoy by philly to bait other teams into opening up to trade talks
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 8, 2011 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless....
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 130530485746 in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 130530485746 in Ebay!
I think the Sixers need some more scoring. The Warriors need some more defense
this trade would seemingly fit both teams. What both teams have in common is they both need a center.
I hope Iggy would make Lee a lot better
otherwise it’d be hard to justify Lee’s and Iggy’s contracts if we want to build into a Championship team.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 9:13 AM PDT reply actions
I don't think it's Iggy making Lee better ...
… so much as balancing the offense so that our better players (including Lee) are taking more, smarter shots.
So I’d expect Lee’s PPG to go up, and hopefully his efficiency, too – simply because the overall offense will run more smoothly. But that’s not Iggy making Lee better in the way that, say, Nash made Richardson better by consistently getting him the ball in the right spot to get a good shot.
I was actually thinking on the defensive end
I think the way Nash made Richardson better on offense is similar to the way Iggy can make Lee better on defense (which, if happens, has a very real chance of flowing over to help is offense).
Instead of being a glowing defensive liability picking up every guy who gets past Curry and Monta, being a part of a more balanced defense could help get Lee back to the player he was with NY.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
All we have to do is like look at Memphis
Perimeter D really sheltered fact both their bigs were considered ‘slow’ and immobile
thats how the thunder beat them
they played too slow when perkins and his bad knees were on the floor. when they went ibaka/collison they were flying up and down the floor and gasol paid for it the most because z-bo had arthur supplanting him. gasol had haddaddi
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jun 8, 2011 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
sale of sixers impending - announced today
this changes everything. Team will be looking to shed contracts and not take on big ones. I doubt the trade occurs.
Ha, something like this would come up right when the Ws’ fantasy deal is being hammered out.
Thinking optimistically: Riley was able to finalize the David Lee trade with ownership of the team in semi-limbo (Lacob’s group had won the bid but was months from officially taking over the reins). And that was a deal that entailed a fairly huge new financial commitment. By contrast, an Iguodala/Ellis swap eases the Sixers’ financial burden by $11.4M over the next three years.
There will be no extra point!
good point
I think Iggy will be gone – but I am not sure it will be for ellis because ellis is too similar in salary. More likely Iggy sent packing for a couple mid-level salaried guys like Affalo
by Togna Balogna on Jun 7, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Totally possible, but the buzz out of Philly seems to be that they’ve narrowed their sights down to Ellis.
Though Iguodala’s a perfect fit for our team, I suspect his lack of consistent scoring and fairly hefty pricetag is deterring a lot of potential suitors. I’d imagine Denver, for example, would just as soon re-sign a couple of cheap productive wings like Afflalo (and/or Chandler, Gallinari, Smith et al.) as take on a $14M annual commitment for a not-quite-franchise player at the same position.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 7, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why? They’d shed 2-5 mil per year and get an exciting player to fill seats. This makes me more optomistic the deal would go through.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
If a lot of people are complaining about trading Monta for Iggy straight up,
Name one GOOD player the Warriors could trade Monta for who is as good as a defender as Iggy. I’ve always loved Monta, but when the right opportunity comes along, we have to trade him.
At worst, we would have a better trade asset in Iggy
If we don’t like life with Iggy, we have a much better shot of trading him for a lottery pick next season than we would with Ellis. In the end, the question is what would we actually end up with in an Ellis trade. Iggy is probably the second best outcome next to landing a top 3 lottery pick (and getting Kanter or Biyombo, for example).
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)
Odds are you're right
Warrior’s odds are Monta becomes an All-Star immediately after we trade him (and his trade value rises)
Either way I guess it’s best for us to make this trade.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
if so, i say good for Monta
I never understood why fans got angry at players being successful after they move on. Monta is a great talent and a good player – with the right team and coach he could be a great player – Warriors just might not be that team.
by Togna Balogna on Jun 7, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
its
because we wanted him them to be successful with us.
So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!
by 24k state fan since 87 on Jun 7, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you... too a degree
I really hope Monta makes it to the All Star game one day, even if it’s not with us. I love Monta’s heart and I will be cheering for him wherever he goes (except for LA).
I like seeing guys like Morrow, Buike, Turiaf, Barnes, JRich and even JCrawford have success after being traded is really cool to see. Guys like Gugliotta, DFisher, and the Pacer twins… Not so much.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jun 7, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
True, but the hypothetical “best outcome” was really based on nothing more than Chad Ford’s casual musing. I personally found / find it exceedingly hard to believe than any GM — yes, even David Kahn — would even consider giving up a top 3 pick for Monta Ellis.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 7, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
actually, I meant
keeping Iggy is the second best outcome
best outcome is trading Iggy for a top 3 pick
I don’t think we could get a top pick for Monta, hence, why I think it’s a smart move.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)
in other words, it would be indirectly turning around Ellis for a top 3 pick
But that would almost be like magic, so I don’t think it will happen.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
"It’s not all about stats…you’ve probably never played basketball in your life. There are things called intangibles. He is what you call a winner. Led his team to a national title. We need people who know how to win. He obviously has to be doing something right." (dhod)
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)
http://www.hoopsnotes.com/buzz/what-makes-iguodala-curry-gay-laugh/
Make it happen! Curry/iggy undeniable chemistry!
imagine curry/iggy/gay ...
stephen curry
by bimmercirem3 on Jun 7, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
To those who would vote NO - You're Blind!
You guys have been stuck at the bottom of the league for so long that you’d be happy to make the playoffs. Listen, we suck, and we never make the playoffs, but it’s NOT THAT HARD TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. We can keep trudging along trying to gain those 5-10 wins each season, or we can try to transform the entire character of the team.
Take a clue from the finals. Either you can have a superstar player and surround him with excellent role players and an excellent team, or you can just rely on numerous superstars.
The warriors are not going to get any superstars. They have to do it the way the Mavericks did it – and yes, we should be trying to win a championship, not just make the playoffs.
We know that Monta is not our superstar. he’s too weak in too many areas. Who else could potentially be our star? Honestly, it doesn’t look too good. Maybe Steph. Maybe David Lee. Maybe Dorell Wright. Teams that are doing poorly and all of a sudden become contenders need a transformation. What that means is we need to take risks. Look at the strengths and weaknesses of Andre’s game. He doesn’t have that many weaknesses, and his weaknesses are low-risk! So he averages 10 points a game less than Monta – you don’t think that given the opportunity, Steph/Dorell/David Lee can average 10 points a game more? You don’t think that the defensive difference Andre makes will nullify the impact of those 10 points a game? Instead of playing at a 110ppg pace, we should take a cue from the Finals and play defensive battles. Andre is a step in that direction – a great step.
The only thing that worries me is his injury history. That’s high risk. But if that is a non-issue, then all of a sudden you have a team of GREAT role players where you need ONE to step up and be a superstar. Obviously that might not happen but you know that Monta is not that superstar.
also
also, Iggy has better trade value going into the future because most teams want these players who are either: 1) able to become a scoring star; or 2) take on a clear and value-added role as a specialist. Think about it. If you added Iguodala to any playoff team, he would be a welcome addition. Monta would need to fit a VERY SPECIFIC SCHEME and CAN ONLY SCORE.
monta only fits criteria 1. iggy fits both.
oh yay, fitz and brooks
“why would you trade monta for iguodala or gay, the problems not in the backcourt, the problems in the paint”
Oh, Boob.
Why would you trade Monta for LeBron?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 7, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
then when monta is traded
he’ll go on and on about how terrible monta was and how getting rid of him totally improved the team
I have a question for you all
Name the last team to win championship with a legitimate defensive liability in their starting 5 (or generally getting over 30 mpg).
Can’t think of one.
Lakers?
Celtics?
Spurs?
Pistons?
Lakers?
Bulls?
Rockets?
I can’t really name a single defensive liability. Sure some mediocre defenders, but no one who is a true liability like Monta @ SG or David Lee anywhere. Even 35 year old Derek Fisher is passable as a team defender last year..
sam amick is reporting the chances of this trade happening are less than 20 percent
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
Probably cause neither side would want to sweeten the deal
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
funny, but I would think the Dubs would swap draft picks (or drafted players)
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 7, 2011 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
We need to email Lacob and shove this rumor down his throat
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Jun 7, 2011 12:28 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
One thing
I think you have to understand the Warriors history with good players. I think we have a proven commodity in Ellis who is a player with talent that is willing to play for the Warriors. The Warriors have to be careful to get a player that may get upset with the inept franchise and want to be traded. E.g. C. Webb., Sprewell, S. Jax. etc. I’d hate to move Ellis and then have them lose Iggodala. I just think we’d have to find out if he’s willing to play for the Warriors. Some players simply don’t want to sacrifice years in the NBA when they are playing at the peak of their performance.
+1
I don’t see why he’d want to come here if he’s unhappy in Philly
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
not like he'd have a choice.
and with Jackson and West…you better listen lol
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Not a huge fan of Iggy
But I think the W’s would have to make this deal. I just wish someone would keep track of the number of times per game last season that Monta got beat off the dribble. It’s really that simple. I would estimate at least 6.7 times per game. Until he can learn to stay in front of his man, it doesn’t really matter how much Ellis scores or how much he wants to be a Warrior. There’s a reason why Ellis was 4th to last in the league in efficiency this past season, and that’s just not going to change. Make the deal.
Ric Bucher via twitter – “Iguodala will be traded by July 1. The Monta trade is there for the taking”
July 1?
That’s three weeks away! I’ll go crazy by then. I’ve gotten like two hours worth of actual work done today.
I mean, at least agree to a deal “in principle.” I’m dying here.
There will be no extra point!
i feel the same way LOL
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
He says "by July 1" ;)
That could mean the first day trades can happen, but no longer than July 1. Who knows how good his info is though.
i think they can make trades once the finals are over
up until the CBA expires on June 30th. After that, I don’t think players are allowed to be traded until the new CBA
oh
dude, if this stalls out through an entire lockout, I’ll pull my hair out
Does the draft happen before June 30th?
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 7, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
yea its on june 23rd
thats why players can supposedly be traded during the draft (unlike the NFL’s draft which took place after old CBA expired)
I like Igoudala...
but I dont see how this trade would address the Dubs’ most pressing needs. We need a post-presence more than anything else. Monta was a shutdown defender but he ain’t a doormat. He plays to his size.
To give up Monta to get basically the same player with better defense doesn’t seem to be a progressive move to me. Don’t get me wrong.
First priority is to get some, ANY production out of the 5. That alone would make the Warriors instantly better.
Plus
If you’re trading Monta because of an apparent defensive deficiency, why wouldn’t you trade Curry, as well?
by MikeAucksbigg on Jun 7, 2011 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
One step at a time brother.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
amen, reverend!
To give up Monta to get basically the same player with better defense doesn’t seem to be a progressive move to me. Don’t get me wrong.
They are more different than I think you realize.
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 8, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Curry's defense against PGs is not terrible.
(Neither is Monta’s, for that matter).
Monta was a shutdown defender but he ain’t a doormat. He plays to his size.
I assume you meant “Was NOT a shutdown defender” but you’re wrong – he is a doormat. He’s arguably the worst defensive two-guard in the league who sees meaningful minutes.
I did in fact mean Monta was NOT a shutdown defender
Doormat is a bit harsh. I admit defense is not an attribute that stands out when you think of Monta. But, I think ANY NBA player has some modicum of defensive ability. It really comes down to effort, which is why you can teach any player how to play solid defense. So much so that I’m willing to bet that if Monta gets traded, he will suddenly stop being labeled a defensive liability wherever he winds up playing.
You also have to look at (ok, I have to pull it out) how many really bad calls went against Monta. Monta got plenty of reputation fouls because he tends to reach. Of course, when you’re the Warriors and you have a reputation for reaching, guess what? They’re going to call that against you more often than not. But for sake of this thread, I’ll agree and say that Monta reaches too much. But then again, so does Curry.
by MikeAucksbigg on Jun 7, 2011 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
You also have to look at (ok, I have to pull it out) how many really bad calls went against Monta.
You really don’t. You could just not post it.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 7, 2011 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
It really comes down to effort, which is why you can teach any player how to play solid defense.
Effort has to be there, but it comes down to more than effort. Monta isn’t tall enough or long enough to bother taller shooters. He has to commit his body more to reach into passing lanes and he’s not blessed with exceptional lateral speed. That’s not effort. That’s just the tools he’s given. I’m sure he’d shut me down. I’m sure compared to most serious rec players he’d be a hell of a defender, but in the NBA, it comes down to more than effort. You also have to have the tools. Couple that with sporadic effort and you’ve got your doormat.
But for sake of this thread, I’ll agree and say that Monta reaches too much. But then again, so does Curry.
I’m not sure why you’re comparing him to Curry. I’m convinced that Curry would be just as overmatched if he had to defend two-guards, but he doesn’t.
But I honestly think blaming the refs is silly. As you point out, Monta reaches too much. When you reach, you foul a lot. In other words, Monta doesn’t get a lot of fouls called against him because he has a reputation for reaching a lot, he gets a lot of fouls called against him because he reaches a lot which means he fouls a lot.
the warriors most pressing need is defense, not post-presence
and this trade addresses that
we have a lot of needs
perimiter defense is high on that list. this trade completely addresses that
I'm all for the trade IF we can unload BIedrins on them too...
That would relieve some of the salary cap issues you guys are concerned about. Between Monta and Biedrins, that’s 20 mil/year for the next 3 seasons($60mil total for the math flunks). Shoot, i wouldn’t mind if they threw in Thaddeus Young in with Iggy, done deal!!!
We Believe!!!
Biedrins
At this point, I think the cost of including him in any trade is too high. Unless we stumble into some sucker who sees a lot of potential there still, we are stuck with the guy with the Golden Tan
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 8, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
no brainer
Sixers would be more morons to do this. Bring on Iggy. God speed Monta.
"I'll have to look at the tape" - mike singletary
I don't get anyone's gripe with this trade...
It seems to be one of those trades that would work out good for both teams in my eyes. For us, Curry/Iguodala would instantly have better chemistry than Monta/Steph. We would now have our clear-cut PG who would be allowed to run the floor solo and a better passing SG with the size and skill to defend some of the best two-guards in the league. For Philly, they’d be getting an explosive and proven but undersized two-guard, a fact I can only assume they’re hoping to be able to offset in the future by having Monta start alongside Evan Turner since he can pass and has the size to guard the bigger guards (something we all know would make Monta happy no matter what the situation). Everyone that’s bringing up how we’ll lose ground offensively without Monta is not only underestimating better team chemistry in general but Dorell’s development, Lee and Reggie’s work ethic, and Steph and Udoh’s potential. Plus, with Jerry West on board, we WILL be getting another big man (whether it’s a young up-and-comer or a legit star is yet to be seen) soon, trust.
As far as money’s concerned, y’all can stop arguing about that. They’re ALL overpaid, period. I personally don’t believe there’s ever been a player in ANY sport that was worth more than 60 mil. Not when every player has lost at some point in time.
Maybe why not
I perfer to keep ellis but i wouldn’t be upset if we did the trade. The only problem would be who is going to be our scorer. If we have iggy and curry those guys are not scorers becasue they don’t have that extra speed that ellis can take to the rim or a jump shot at the end of the game.
TRADE DAVID LEE for iggy and i prefer that trade instead
The Bottom Line is...
which backcourt gets us more wins? Curry/Ellis or Curry/Iggy. I’d go with the latter because it helps the team overall in what counts: WINS. + the W’s have always found SG’s who can score. That would give us THREE TEAM USA invitees…Curry Iggy and D Lee.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"UNSTOPPABLE BABY!"
Golden State Warriors rookie Marc Jackson to the Mavericks' bench, after hitting a lay-up during a 29-point loss (2000)
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Golden State Of Mind
Related FanShots on Golden State Of Mind
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Most Commented
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- C-a-C: This is probably as close to LeBron James working with John Waters as we’ll ever get
- Dwyane Wade’s hot pink pants: The kind of thing you can get away with when you drop 41
- Lamar Odom to New York? Dwight Howard on the move? For now, it’s all talk
