Warriors Expectations: "It all depends on Monta Ellis"

I’d like to see Curry in a situation where he fully runs the show.

I also wonder how much of that stretch was
-end of season meaningless wins (see: v. lakers this year)
-Nellie’s record
-Nellie’s system

His right what? And what about his left?

I’ve always been of the mindset that no single player has to have a given amount of passing/creation ability, but the team as a whole needs to have a certain amount. If your PG isn’t a good passer, you can make up for it at other positions, as long as the team is still capable. I think this is an interesting thought, though:

Point is, rarely will a team succeed on the highest level when one player is both the primary distributor and number one scoring option.

I think it’s probably true that one player simply cannot take that big a role in an offense for a team to win a championship, short of some hypothetical player that’s better than anyone we’ve ever seen before. So if it’s your PG you’re relying on….well, generally to get to that team level of passing you need, your PG needs to take on a big passing role, so to also be the number one scorer…..well, that probably does put the team past the threshold of being too centered around one player

Running an offense through one man doesn’t work.

I gotta call bull. Isiah did do it in ‘89 and ’90, as you’ve conceded, but Jordan himself CAN also be counted as an exception to the rule for 1989, when he actually did officially assume the role of point guard. The switch-of-position occurred at a moment when the Bulls were really struggling, in early March, and MJ, while leading, not just the team, but the entire league in scoring, virtually willed his team all the way to six games of the ECF. Indeed, Pippen was only in his second season at this point and, while he was emerging as a legitimate scoring threat, he was not yet the overall playmaker of the later dynasty years.

To neglect to acknowledge MJ’s efforts in the ‘89 campaign, I feel, is criminal, as it’s pretty universally recognized that those Bulls’ Cinderella run was manifestly engineered by the transcendent flight of ‘Air’ Jordan. That was the playoffs where MJ nailed “The Shot” with 3 seconds left of an elimination Game 5 to upset the (overwhelming) media favorite Cavs in the first round, at Cleveland (seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNAvTEP_moQ). Along with putting up 44 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 assists in that game (including 30 points in the second half), MJ’s averages in that series were 39.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, and 8.2 apg. In Game 4, he put up 50 points on 14-28 FGs (seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABMwT2b3jG0). In the second round of those playoffs, he averaged 35.7 points, 9.5 rebs, and 8.3 assists in another hard-fought (6-game) series, against the Knicks. Excluding Game 2, where MJ, saddled with foul trouble, only notched 15 points and 3 assists playing limited minutes, MJ averaged 39.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, and 9.4 apg. In the clinching game at MSG, MJ put up 40 points on 14-22 FGs, 10 assists, 5 rebounds, and 2 steals, and buried a whole slew of clutch free-throws down the stretch to clinch another series upset (seen here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXoxFtXXW5M) . MJ was once again the focal point- at point guard- in that year’s ECF against the Bad Boys, and he went out with no bullets left in his guns, as he tallied 32 points on 13-25 FGs, 13 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 steals, and 2 blocks in a game in which it felt like Michael had a pivotal hand in every single Bulls play (seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQvwASHakTY&feature=channel_video_title).

Yes, the Bulls lost to Detroit in the 1989 playoffs when Jordan helmed the point guard duties for his team, but the loss was solely a function of Detroit’s peculiar “Jordan Rules” defense, and had absolutely nothing to do with the critical dual scoring/distributing role Jordan played in his team’s offense. Detroit’s uniquely sophisticated tactics, with regards to making Jordan work for everything on the floor and psyching out his less poised teammates, mentally-speaking, is the only reason the Bulls’ championships didn’t start coming that year, the year in which Jordan controlled everything. How special was that 1989 Bulls playoff run? You can’t even measure it; the Jordan-led Bulls had only ever won one playoff series heading into that year’s playoffs, and went as far as they did entirely without the homecourt advantage (they were the sixth seed in the Easterc Conference, and finished 5th in the Central Division). It’s only because those Bad Boy Pistons happened to peak at that exact moment that Chi-town didn’t go down as champs that year. And boy did Detroit peak. I mean, so much so, in the ‘89 Finals against the Lakers, Detroit had no less than nine players who averaged at least 20 minutes per. That’s a feat that hasn’t been repeated since. Indeed, Detroit swept through those Finals and, fittingly, their only two losses of those entire playoffs, came at the hands of ‘Air’ Jordan and the Bulls, as they finished 15-2 overall.

Now, this story may be more a tale of Jordan’s unique greatness than anything else, but please, do remember it when you call out teams who delegate the chief scoring and distributing responsibilities to one player.

Quick question, how many dunks in the last quarter of the NBA Finals?I think there was one. And which team won? Was it the team with the type of player, post-Jordan, who holds the ball by himself and then dribbles into the teeth of the defense to shoot, come hell or high water? Or, was it the team who played the subtler, team game, where the ball was distributed and plays were run until the best possible shot was obtained?

Point is that Monta’s greatest strength, which is one-on-one, matchup-based, clear the side bball is on the way out. Thank God for that.It is excruciating to watch as endless Jordan/Kobe imitators bounce away the last ten seconds of a game, only to brick a hurried shot. (eg, Baron Davis).

History is made by individuals. Jordan ruined basketball in the same way the 1990 Eckersley ruined a part of baseball. Almost no one (Kobe/Mariano Rivera are the rare exceptions) can do what they do. It was a huge mistake to change the games to let inferior players who think they are as good bore us to death with bad versions of the HOF prototype.

Back to Curry- lucky for us, the Dallas win puts the writing on the wall. As much as I like Monta, the future ( and the past) is passing and shooting, which Curry does better than Monta. Dont bring up defense, because neither one of them is very good at it. Whether or not Curry will be more productive as a fully realized point guard, or combo guard, or pure shooting guard is irrelevant. Curry’s game is better suited to the future, and the trade value of Ellis will never be higher. The Warriors go nowhere without a trade, so its bye bye Monta. In his defense, despite the stupidity of the ankle thing and ensuing lie, the W’s did him wring by fining him. He will never forget it and it will never be right here for him. Get over it Curry haters.

he’s just pointing out that in general, players picked in the late lottery are more likely to be busts than solid players. if you look at late lottery picks historically, more of them never really made it in the league than turned out to be solid players.

I did not say he’d be a bust. Please do not pretend that I did. Odds are better that he’ll be a bust than that he’ll be very successful. That’s not a prediction that he will, but if forced to bet, bust would be a safer bet. #11 picks don’t usually amount to much. We expect more because they’re “lottery picks” but that’s a meaningless designation when lumping all the non-playoff picks together.

Well, what do you consider a prototypical PG, exactly?