Truth be told, I’m certainly no Lee fan, but I’d assumed that Biedrins had to be the amnesty choice myself, without putting much thought in it. But now it’s time to put some thought into it.
And you know what? Now I think the best amnesty choice–if it also includes the salary-cap cleaning–would be Lee, and not Biedrins.
From Warriors amnesty primer: Who should they dump–Biedrins or Lee? | Talking Points.
Tim Kawakami weighs in on Jonathan Abrams & Bill Simmons' earlier Grantland piece about who the Warriors should dump (posted earlier by GSOM commenter doubleteapot). The details of how the clause would work out are still unclear, but Kawakami settles on Lee as the best option.
8 months ago
Nate Parham
73 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
but wouldnt that cost bank? using... Lacobs... money.. >.> hmm
throw udoh in at the 4 and tyler n beans manning the 5.. in a rebuild year..
Ew.
I feel like Kawakami is just looking for a story. There isn’t one if Biedrins is the consensus best choice, but if there’s a public debate about it, then he can ask the question:
“Did you do what’s best for the team, or what’s best for your wallet?”
Biedrins is unquestionably the best choice. He sucks. He doesn’t care that he sucks, and he has a horrible attitude. More importantly, he’s making 70% of what Lee makes the next three seasons (as opposed to giving back almost nothing, Lee’s by far the better player). If the “build towards the playoffs” thing doesn’t work over that time, we can cut Lee’s final couple of seasons where he’s making $15 million, using the same amnesty clause.
The less than $4 million a year difference is negligible to the trade off in talent and ability. No discussion to be had here.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
by Brownie13 on Sep 28, 2011 10:27 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
There's like a 41 million dollar difference in their salaries.
That’s not nothing.
I do agree TK is looking for drama though.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 28, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
$30 million of it comes after Biedrins 3 years is up.
If we still want to get rid of Lee by then…we can.
In fact, I think the rule that’s likely to go into place would allow us to get rid of Lee the season after.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Agreed
Especially if their is no hard cap. Hard cap might make you examine dumping Lee…
In fact, I think the rule that’s likely to go into place would allow us to get rid of Lee the season after.
Which is that? I don’t think I read about it.
The salary cap amnesty
From what I’ve read, it seems like something that’s pretty much locked in. I’ve heard it’ll be recurring every year
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
I know I’ve pointed this out several times, but Lee was in his first year with a new team, he was injured early, and he had a coach that didn’t use him properly. I’m not saying he’s worth his contract, but he’s at least serviceable and appears to be a good “team guy.”
Biedrins is worthless in every sense of the word. He’s a horrible player and (from what I’ve read) has a pretty crummy attitude. If the W’s get rid of Lee and keep Biedrins, the only rationale I could see would be trying to keep that top 7 draft pick. But as soon as you start tanking for draft picks, you invite a culture of losing to the team, and I don’t think we really need any more of that.
Yes agreed sir...
Lee struggled early (with an injury & new team) but you guys have to like his numbers towards the end of the season. He was pretty pleasing to me, and from what he showed towards the end there, if he can keep that up and consitently do that for us, I would have to keep him. Plus biedrins just sucks. We are essentially paying a banana to sit on the bench. The guy is worthless.
His numbers for the last 5 games broken down for each game…
vs. POR-29 pts, 20 boards (beast numbers) 76.5 fg
LAL-22 pts., 17 reb. (52.9 fg)
SAC-24 pts, 14 reb (50.0 fg)
DEN-10 and 5 (50.0 fg)
POR-13 and 6 (46.2 fg)
If you look at his game log and look at towrds the end of the season even starting as early as February, he started to have some pretty big games.
When I say his numbers for the last couple of games I am talking about Lee...
Would be nice if Biedrins could have done that as well
a lot of us at bullets forever are debating which other guys on other teams should get the amnesty clause.
and get bought out.. for GS, I would buy out biedrins over lee.
by thewiz06 on Sep 29, 2011 12:16 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
another vehicle for this writer to mock the decision makers
K. gives plenty of reasons in his commentary why Lacob won’t write off Lee’s contract, so he’s implying that he understands the hoops and business aspects of choosing whom to jettison better than the owner and his brain trust.
Was it so obvious that Lee’s contract was a long term disaster when the team won most of its games with him before his arm was shredded ? [not long after that of course, Curry’s ankle problems flared, which contributed to Smart losing confidence in him, and the team was back on its familiar road]. gaining cap space will not conjure up a talented player capable of helping the team who’s both available and willing to sign, nor will it make the team’s brain trust incapable of making another wrong choice. When Davis opted out, the freed cap room was expended on M’gette, the guy who was available and willing. is having more cap space but taking on more debt (the contract for Lee’s replacement) a requisite for making better personnel decisions ? how can all these experts be so sure that Lee remaining on the team reduces the likelihood of re-signing Curry, when the terms for re-signing have yet to be defined in the current labour negotiations?
it’s also assuring to see how many experts are confident that Jackson and Malone won’t be able to get Lee functioning at an acceptable level, and that the team will be so financially flush that it would pay off his contract and acquire an expensive free agent forward/center to take his place.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
If we were a single piece away from contending
I’d still get rid of Biedrins before Lee.
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
by Badly Browned on Sep 29, 2011 9:06 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Truth be told, I'm not sure Lee actually helps us more in a salary clean up than Biedrins
At the moment- Lee is making 11 mil, rising to 15, at an average of 13.3 a year. Realistically we’d have gotten him on something like a Scola/David West type deal 5 years/40 mil, 8 mil a year. That’s about the level of player he is. Better than an MLE, but really not worth heavy investment. A player you probably shouldn’t sign unless you got 1-2 core pieces in place, so as it stands, he is overpaid, but he does produce, and he can play better and likely will.
Biedrins is making 9 mil per year, and is producing liking a league minimum player. No defense, no offense, horrendous attitude. Again, if he somehow made himself into Biedrins of 2008/9, then he’s worth the buck but I don’t see it happening.
The way I see it, Biedrins is overpaid by about 8 mil, Lee 5.3 mil. You’re getting something out of Lee and could possibly get more (more efficient scoring, slightly better rebounding, to go with same high IQ offensive player and excellent passing). you’re getting nothing out to Biedrins.
More than that, the message it sends to cut Lee over Biedrins. I just don’t like it. Andris attitude is cancerous.
Andris attitude is cancerous.
Man, this saddens me. He was a fan fave, and in a blink of an eye he has just lost all confidence in himself. I admittedly did not watch much of this season, but it sounds like he’s hit bottom?
With that said, I’d still prefer to take another chance w/Beans before I keep Lee. It seems to me we can find a similar “power forward” who can neither play nor defend with “power” at the “forward” position, for pennies on the dollar. They exist at most YMCAs around the nation.
I’ll keep saying it until something changes, but this was/is a poorly constructed, flawed team. I can’t say I’m looking forward to the inevitble preseason poll where the majority will vote “PLAYOFFS BABY!!!”, then sit around and wonder what went wrong.
Beans has gotten 2+ years of chances and gotten worse and worse
And showed an attitude/commitment which makes you believe it likely won’t improve.
IT’s really one whole year of chances, but that’s enough. He was that level of bad.
"MJ probably couldnt win a dunk contest today."
-J-RIDAH
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 30, 2011 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
?
Horrendous in 09/10 and 10/11. It got gradually worse each game over 2 years.
He pretty much missed all of 09/10 and when he played he was injured. It’s pretty silly to count that against him.
"MJ probably couldnt win a dunk contest today."
-J-RIDAH
by Reverend_Randy on Oct 1, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
he still had a chance to not whine and be a good teammate.
by Billy Frijoles on Oct 3, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
And? What’s your point?
"MJ probably couldnt win a dunk contest today."
-J-RIDAH
by Reverend_Randy on Oct 3, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Andris attitude is cancerous.
I hate this.
Why is it cancerous? The guy always on the list of teammates other teammates like. He went out there and played despite being injured. We don’t have any evidence at all to suggest that he’s got an attitude problem, that he doesn’t work hard, or that his psychology is hurting his teammates in any way.
I agree with your larger point. Lee is overpaid by far less. Only, perhaps, in the final year of his contract is it even close. If Lee’s defense improves a little he’s a clearly above-average player.
Biedrins may never again be anywhere close to average. But I don’t understand how you get from that to “attitude/commitment.” If you asked me, playing with a torn abdominal muscle shows a tremendous amount of commitment. He took a risk for the team – when a player plays hurt, they’re putting the team first against the risk that they will do something to hurt their long-term career. That seems to be exactly what happened with Biedrins … and you want to call him a cancer for it?
Well its basically the Jamarcus Russell syndrome. Having a guy who is not trying to get better in the locker room making the kinda money he makes brings down team morale. If your a harder worker and better employee than another guy that makes more money than you it makes you resent that person and the employer. Notice how good the Raiders are now that Russell is gone. In my opinion a starting Center is as important in the NBA as a starting QB is in the NFL. Jason Campbell was not a pro bowl upgrade over Russell but he was a average QB and thats a major upgrade. If we had a average 5 it would be a major upgrade over Biedrins in terms of wins and team morale.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/08/andris-biedrins-did-not-enjoy-last-season/
Of course, we do not have evidence of how this affects his teammates. But he did also have comments about not having a good relationship with his teammates- said they were friendly, and that no one has a problem with him, but still described it as “not good.”
And according to the article, he refused to play through injury, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. The same way we can’t speculate on how his actions affect his teammates, we can’t speculate on how injured he was or wasn’t. I think a lot of us thought he was hurt 2 years ago, and that’s why he was playing so poorly. I think we can now conclude that it might have been more due to him sucking at basketball.
And according to the article, he refused to play through injury, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from.
In the year he had his torn abdominal muscle, he played with it for a while, and then hung it up for the season.
The article doesn’t say he refused to play hurt at all. In fact, it says just the opposite. From the article:
“The franchise naturally tried everything to keep me in, because if I had surgery early on then I might have missed the entire season. We felt like the team made me play to quick after the first injury”
That is the exact opposite of refusing to play through an injury, isn’t it?
The “egoists” comment is a translation, and I’d be very careful about taking a statement like that, in translation, out of context.
I’m not reading it like that. It sounds like he thought the team tried to force him to play through injury, and he listened to them initially. Then, he got his own doctors/trainers to evaluate him and decided to stop playing. He then blamed the team for his injury in the first place.
And I’m not reading too much into the “egoist” remark for the reason you stated. However, I think it’s significant that he makes a point that his relationship with his teammates is “not good.” It seems like he has no friends on the team.
Besides, if their is no hard cap....
Lee’s play + durability + attitude will make him moveable his last couple years. Yeah whoever gets him knows they are overpaying, but most teams can deal with that for 2 years. It’s when it’s 3-4+ they got problems
So for 2011/12, cutting Biedrins puts us at 40.1 mil committed, cutting Lee puts us at 37.5 committed. Doubt that makes a difference.
Keep Lee for at least another year, while his contract is still reasonable. I don’t know what to do with Biedrins, frankly. He does have trade value, though, and he’ll have massive trade value should he bounce back.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
Very good point.
As tafkasam says above, this year would only make a $3mil difference in the cap. I still think cutting Bell is the way to go this year. That’s only a $5mil difference in cap space for a serviceable center versus a player who is not a player.
It smells like hope in this mug
The fact that we pay Biedrins 9 mill and we still need a starting Center should dead this whole debate. We cant upgrade the 4 spot in free agency regardless but we can upgrade the 5 spot by giving Deandre Jordan a little more than half of what Beans makes. But I think its safe to say Lacob would use that amnesty on Charlie Bell and then go grab a 5. Biedrins may be able to net a expiring contract and a second round pick in a trade.
Well I think Jordan will command over 5 mil, probably near 8 mil. Bigs are expensive.
The logic to cutting Lee would be you believe you can get a 5 with his money and you slot Udoh in (defensive 4) as well as Biedrins off the bench in a twin tower system. If it was Nene for example, I’m siure those 3 could rotate.
That said, it’s predicated on Biedrins doing anything worthwhile which I doubt. That + the fact I hate message it sends (cut LEe, keep biedrins) makes me say no.
Bell is most likely, and it should give us enough space to get a center. I just hope that Biedrins shows SOMETHING so we can trade him in a pinch for depth
In the summer of 2010 bigs was expensive. I have a feeling that in the fall of 2011 every free agents value will be down by a few million under the new cba. I say DJ gets 6 million max and we gotta be the team that gives it to him. He’s a poor man’s Dwight Howard. Rebounds,Blocks and Dunks. He’s still getting better. Bob Myers can pull it off.
The issue is
He’s restricted, meaning LAC can match offers, so you will have to either frontload or overpay in all likelihood.
He can’t decide to come to GSW over LAC all things equal
Im aware of this. I cant picture any scenario where the clippers bring back Kaman and DJ regardless of what offer he gets. If they match DJ’s offer then they will dump Kaman either thru trade or amnesty. If they drop him thru amnesty Riley has to make that call to his agent. This team is doomed until we get at least a average 5.
Not true
Because Kaman and Mo Williams expire. Eric Gordon doesn’t need to be re-signed before next summer and Blake the one after that, so they are in a favorable cap situation.
Now it is the Clippers so, there’s always the Sterling/Cohan-screw up factor but I’d be shocked if they don’t keep DeAndre.
Personally if they drop Kaman, I’d take him. He’s an improvement. And being a center will always have trade value (assuming we don’t give him a long deal) + we got Jeremy Tyler so committing big money/years for a center who is not top notch (which DeAndre isn’t) could be a long term problem.
Personally I’m more interested in signing players like Nazy or Kaman at center, using excess money to add quality wing/guard defensive depth to fix the rotation. And play the trade market, because with some playing time Tyler especially but Klay, Dorell, heck even Curry packaged could net a far better center or in general player than we can get in free agency. Or maybe Tyler shows potential to be that guy and we just keep him?
That's not to disclude trading Monta, Lee or anyone either, by the way*
I just worry about giving another over-pay and netting another long term contract which will be hard to move unless we take back little to no value.
I see no reason they would even keep Kaman and Jordan is my point. Even if Kaman is a expiring it makes sense to either get value for him via trade or dump him or get value for DJ or allow him to sign elsewhere. Keeping both albeit just for 1 season makes no sense to me when they could address other issues with that cap space.
You're thinking too short term
If they let DJ go, they’ll be with no centers next year, because they won’t keep Kaman.
I think in all likelihood, they will re-sign DJ unless someone gives him an obscene offer (hopefully not us), and look to move Kaman by deadline.
Id agree if we were talking about any other organization in the league. I sometimes throw common sense out of the window when discussing a Donald Sterling run franchise. As far as im concerned they could let DJ walk now and let Kaman walk later in hopes that Dwight would be enticed to play with Blake.
You want Mohammed?
I’d take him as a backup, definitely not a starter
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
What I was thinking
But meh, I’m saying Center by committee on short deals isn’t a bad idea. It beats overpaying.
I like the idea of front-loading a contract offer
It’d make us more able to add players in the future and be able to re-sign Curry without having a massive team salary
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
There's a psychological aspect to it, though.
Rationally, it shouldn’t matter to the player.
In practice, paycheck size has all sort of interactions with ego, most of them not positive.
A guy making $5m a year might intellectually know that it’s compensation for being overpaid the previous year, but when he looks around the locker room and sees bench guys earning more than him, well … bad things can happen.
I’m not saying never do it. I am saying one has to be careful about it, do it selectively, do it with the right guys, and not go crazy with it.
Yeah.
It worked well with Collison, who’s by all accounts a real professional and a veteran who’s pretty dedicated to the Thunder as team, rather than his own numbers.
We don’t know that about Jordan. I doubt the Clippers know either.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Meh… he’s more like a third-world, homeless Dwight Howard. The guy plays like a rookie, the way people can bait him.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
Regardless of what you wanna call him. He’s second on the list in free agents in my book behind Nene.
No way is he reasonable. Memphis wont allow him to walk so thats almost the same as hoping for Dwight. Im not that big of a dreamer.
hmm
They are historically cheap. They gave Rudy, Conley and ZBo huge deals. Can they even afford him?
I don't see them letting him go.
They’ve got a really good thing going there, with room to still get better. They were without their best wing scorer in the playoffs and still gave the Thunder a run for their money. I think it’s a misconception that Heisley is cheap. He was paying over the cap for 0 wins in the playoffs. He broke it up once he saw it wasn’t going anywhere. When you commit $200M in contracts over a year and a half, it’s kind of hard for me to imagine you put a big hole in your team by not committing another 40 or 50
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Bigs are always expensive.
"MJ probably couldnt win a dunk contest today."
-J-RIDAH
by Reverend_Randy on Oct 1, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm a Lee fan
Keep Lee
In case you haven't heard, I'm sick and tired of trying.
by TheSoundOfHockey on Sep 29, 2011 8:49 PM PDT reply actions
Lee is great for the dubs
Lee gives the dubs a lot more than just on the court aspects to an organization…
He’s a figure in the community, he’s camera and media friendly, a well speaker, and from what I understand a big part of the lockerroom/chemistry of the team!
I too used to love beans/goose he was a rebounding beast and so efficient when recording a feed for a quick one from baron…
No doubt about it Nellie destroyed him…
He lost all confidence in all aspects of his game and it all started with barons departure…
And let’s be honest here guys…. How does anyone expect someone to “bounce back” when it’s clear that we the fans have just about given up on beans just as much as he has….
But with all this said I still believe highly in the factor of playing for a contract… With amunderson playing for a contract this year and beans shortly after that maybe he will be able to bounce back and show the league that he is still a valued member of a team….
by RTM707 on Sep 30, 2011 12:29 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Who gave up on Biedrins last season? Nobody. We all thought he would come back with Nellie gone. Even if he was to come back this summer and showed ppl that he was serious about becoming a player ppl would embrace him. But the fact that he’s in that same Latvian gym he was in last summer that did not help his game makes fans like myself think why cant he go to Vegas and be with him teamates. Why is Steph Curry and D-Lee leading organized workouts when Biedrins has been on the team the longest?
And then
Thas when beans is traded
When there is good value…
I think at this point lacob would be a fool to resign him
by RTM707 on Sep 30, 2011 12:31 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
The amnesty clause
I actually see this differently then most probably do….
This will probably be used more in a way to restructure deals with players in order to keep players and add to the dynamics of the team…
Addition by subtraction…
Think Miami heat….
This is almost Taylor made for them… All that money going to just three players don’t leave much room for any tinkering…
But with the amnesty deal they can waive and resign at a lower rate to make room…
Correct me if I’m wrong please feel free
by RTM707 on Sep 30, 2011 12:37 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
You can only do it once a year.
And I think there’s stipulations about not being able to resign the players unless nobody else wants them.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
i'd do biedrens only if the warriors go out and get a quality center
otherwise Lacob has to look at the bigger picture: if you dont get a center than can you rely on Lee(and his lengthy/expensive deal) to carry this team to an 8th seed?
Centers are more valuable in this league. Biedrens is only 24 correct? Darko is getting 6 mill a year, Hasheem Thabeet had someone willingly trade for him. Brendan Haywood got 50+ million for starting. I’d cut bait with lee while I can because the back end years of this deal are going to be catastrophic unless he turns into al horford or kevin love. There are several cheaper PF’s out there like carl landry and kirilenko.
I’d keep Biedrens unless i knew for sure that I could afford and lure a big impact center to oakland. otherwise i’d use the “he’s young and needs a change of scenery” pitch and ship biedrens hard for any return, I think someone would be willing to take a chance on him
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Sep 30, 2011 8:07 AM PDT reply actions
It's not even a question. You dump Lee without a second thought.
People are so focused on his offense not being where it normally is but ignoring the fact that his defense was.
by Spider Jerusalem on Sep 30, 2011 12:17 PM PDT reply actions
an amnesty/buyout w. cap exemption program would have negative consequences
Discussing which players teams should jettison wlth cap impunity can provide fans amusement during the lock down — Simmons refers to it as the ‘Curry Cure’ after all (referring to NY’s E.Curry of course) — but there would be detrimental effects on competitiveness, both between teams and individual players.
The teams that have been budget conscious and do not have $$ to ‘burn’ by writing off seven or eight figure contract remainders gain little or nothing. For individual players, those who don’t get drafted, and/or go through international leagues or the d-league would have to compete for those ‘budget’ roster spots with the ‘fat cats’ who’ve been bought out, then relocate to work on minimum contracts. A player like the second round pick Jenkins might face getting cut because his team can pick up Arenas cheaply, after Orl dumps him. Of course, the teams more popular as work locations with the players would have an advantage in picking up the recycled write-offs, and many of those teams are also the richer franchises who could work the system to best advantage.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
I'm not sure if they would dump Biedrins, though
remember, they turned down a trade with Houston
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
Well...
they would have still been committed to the salaries of Thabeet and Hill then. Neither of which is worth much as a player. A straight cut of him off the salary cap might be more appealing because it makes space for a better replacement, rather than two other near equally bad players.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"UNSTOPPABLE BABY!"
Golden State Warriors rookie Marc Jackson to the Mavericks' bench, after hitting a lay-up during a 29-point loss (2000)
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Golden State Of Mind
Related FanShots on Golden State Of Mind
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Most Commented
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- David West hilariously denies each and every one of his young fans a high-five (VIDEO)
- Behind the Box Score, where the Miami Heat are moving on to the conference finals
- Kevin Durant is tired of hearing about the Spurs
- The 10-man rotation, starring your Indiana Pacers
- Blake Griffin highlights, ‘NBA Jam’-style (VIDEO)
