Stienmetz (and Kawakami) on TheGame95.7
As usual, critical of Dubs management.
And as usual he is right.
5 months ago
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Steinmetz now admitting the Bell Amnesty was a terrible move. I just like the way he said it, for emphasis.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
same
Very dramatic.
He’s becoming good at the radio thing. Time to replace barbieri with him on KNBR
Who else deserved to be amnestied? If we were to put Biedrins on the trade market right now we’d be able to move him for a expiring contract. Lee has been earning his money this season. Who should be amnestied? Its not as if the 2012 free agent pool is deep with talent. Our cap space should be able to get us whoever we want besides DH and Deron. We took a swing at DJ and missed. That happens. Bell did nothing for this team anyway. Kwame is not here if Bell is still on the books.
Well now he don't even have the OPTION
and we had no idea if Biedrins would be any better this season.
Also, two years down the road, it could have amazingly beneficial to still have the option of amnestying the final couple years of Lee’s contract, whether it be because we suck and he’s not needed, or we got better and can then improve some more by getting a better big man.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
They had to use their amnesty by Dec 16. There’s no way they could have saved it for later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Roye
by Elevation Sensation on Jan 11, 2012 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
found the link*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Roye
by Elevation Sensation on Jan 11, 2012 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
We've been over this before
That’s simply not true. That was the deadline for this year. The could still save it and use it next year, or any year after as long as they use it on a player that was signed during the previous CBA.
We should have amnestied David Lee, who by the way is nowhere close to “earning” his money.
by Anonymous1337 on Jan 11, 2012 6:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
David Lee is playing as good as the top players at his position right now. If Bosh is earning his money, so is Lee.
That just isn't true.
LMA, Nene, Horford, Landry, Gasol, Boozer, Brand, Young, D. West, Stoudamire, DeJuan Blair, Brandon Bass, Bargnani are all having better seasons so far.
Lee has had a bad start to the season. The Miami game was his best this year.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
amnestying Lee would have cleared our biggest and most inhibiting contract.
he only helps us be mediocre with his level of devensive play
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 12, 2012 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Well the idea wouldn't be to amnesty him for no reason.
If an opportunity came about that we were prevented from capitalizing on because of his contract, we could then amnesty Lee to make it possible. Now we don’t have that option.
Or even if we just didn’t get any better and still sucked, we could amnesty him to try to start over again.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
So amnesty guys that help you win is the road to a ring?
yes, it’s a long and winding road that goes thru the night clubs of the bay area.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 13, 2012 12:25 AM PST up reply actions
Lee has been earning his money this season
RIP Al Davis
by dubzfan on Jan 11, 2012 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
You could save it. Bell expired in July regardless.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
We should have saved the amensty for times like these
If we got DH12 for the proposed deal we don’t have enough cap space to sign him and someone else which would be the way too keep him. There was no need to rush out and use the amnesty so fast
RIP Al Davis
Think about what your saying. If DH agreed to come here they would trade Steph and Ekpe for a 2nd rounder to make cap space.
Right cause those contracts are massive and would totally give us enough cap to sign 2 max contracts
And you’d need a DWill commitment before you did that trade and threw it all away , with an amnesty you could cut Biedrins and make space without losing Curry and Udoh for nothing. You could then hold onto Curry as a 6th man or trade him for a SF and at center you could have Kwame and Andris with Udoh and a filler at PF , you wouldn’t miss Andris
And even if you refute this you could have still held onto the amnesty years from now waiting for the perfect time to use it. Cutting a cheap expiring contract with it is the coward’s/idiot’s way out
RIP Al Davis
Biedrins could start for at least 7 teams off the top of my head. Lee is very productive, he would never get amnestied. Its a mute point now. I was all for amnestying Biedrins for Chandler, but to use a amnesty on a player thats producing just for cap space when no top player is gonna sign here makes no sense.
but to use a amnesty on a player thats producing just for cap space when no top player is gonna sign here makes no sense.
Fair point.
But the use of amensty on a 4 mil expiring for sake of it, is not worth it.
We should have held it for when we would need it
Bell had to go anyway. The notion of Lee 1 day being amnestied is a fantasy. Biedrins wont be amnestied unless a top guy wanted to come here. Like I said before, he could start for Miami aswell as a few other playoff teams right now.
Bell had to go anyway.
Why?
And Lee being amnestied is possible if Riley were fired, Andris was almost amnestied this year , why couldn’t it happen again? And Miami has Joel Anthony at center, not much at all
Name those other 6 teams, and if those teams have a scrub at center it is a moot point
RIP Al Davis
Joe Lacob loves Lee. Lee is a big part of the reason Riley still has his job. Had he never made the Lee trade and kept Randolph,Turiaf and Buike our only GM right now would be Bob Myers. If Riley got fired today the new GM would never be able to amnesty Lee even if we still had it. Lacob loves Lee because of his play and locker room presence. I cant blame him. I just dont see anybody better than Lee willing to sign here. Maybe you do.
He came here because of money, not the team
Chandler nearly was here until NY came in and it seems like everyone and their mom want to go there
RIP Al Davis
Bell had to go anyway
What logic is that? Yeah, next year. He was an expiring.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
Im more of a solution based guy myself. So tell me the solution to keeping Bell and still being able to sign DJ to a offer sheet. Is their any way we could not amnesty Bell and sign DJ to a offer sheet? If there is im more than willing to acknowledge it was a bad move to amnesty Bell.
the warriors never had a shot at deandre unless they grossly overpaid
and that wouldn’t have been possible justby amnestying bell.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Sterling has been the cheapest owner in sports the last 2 decades. Its not far fetched to believe he would not match the offer of a 2nd round pick that did not average a double double and did was just making 700k the previous season.
Amnestying Bell could be considered by some as a bold move to improve the roster. When the bold move does not work the negative nellie’s say it was a dumb move. It was a risk that was taken, holding onto the amnesty and trying nothing was the safe way to go.
the bold move would have been amnestying lee
wasting a valuable asset on a $4 mill expiring contract to overpay a player is in no case considered bold.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
maybe you don't understand what the word "bold" means
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
wasn't Lee supposed to be a "20 and 12" guy when he came here?
isn’t that what we were paying for supposedly?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
Huh.
So in the same post you make it clear that you think we were offering too much money for Chandler/Jordan … but you suggest we should have made a move which would have had the primary benefit of allowing us to offer them more money?
by Ronaldinho on Jan 12, 2012 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly. This is the problem I have with fans who question the front office without solutions. We went after a top tier C and we failed in Chandler. We went after another 1 in DJ and in order to go after him we had to use the amnesty on the worse player on the team that had a expiring contract, oh well. But my problem is with ppl saying we shoulda kept it and not went after DJ just so they could say the FO didn’t even try to get better. Whats the use of holding onto it? What free agent can you see in the horizon that is worth using the amnesty on Biedrins for that we cant get now with the cap space we have in July? The fantasy of holding onto the amnesty to use it on Lee or Biedrins so we can sign Dwight is a joke. Name some players that we could get for the amnesty cap space.
the solution
was amnesty Lee or Biedrins
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
you are of the opinion that cap flexibility can ONLY net you free agents
which i wholeheartedly disagree with. it also opens up numerous trade possibilities, where you can take on contracts without givingequal salary back.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
So in the same post you make it clear that you think we were offering too much money for Chandler/Jordan … but you suggest we should have made a move which would have had the primary benefit of allowing us to offer them more money?
i never suggested we should have amnestied lee. i claimed that if there was something that the front office could do that would be considered a “bold” move, it would have been amnestying lee, but bold =/= correct. wasting the amnesty on an expiring contract is not a bold move. personally, i’ve been of the opinion that we should have kept the amnesty to use on lee when monta’s and beans’ contracts expired, assuming they play out their contracts here.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
he flat out said he was matching
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
saying that you will match any offer does not keep teams from offering a high salary
it actually encourages them to offer a higher salary. what in the world makes you think a team would say “this team is going to match any offer within reason, so lets make our offer LOWER!”
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
It could’ve been a bluff. Sterling is known to be cheap no matter what he said. If you went to a auction and in the parking lot a guy told you he would go higher than whatever you bid on a item would you still bid on it if you knew that guy is a known cheapskate?
I would say the same to keep a team from offering my player a high salary.
It could’ve been a bluff. Sterling is known to be cheap no matter what he said. If you went to a auction and in the parking lot a guy told you he would go higher than whatever you bid on a item would you still bid on it if you knew that guy is a known cheapskate?
over the course of two whole statements, you just argued that saying you will match an offer sheet will make other teams offer less, and then more. congratulations, you have officially confused the heck out of me.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Im more of a solution based guy myself. So tell me the solution to keeping Bell and still being able to sign DJ to a offer sheet.
Amnesty Lee, amnesty Biedrins. There, two possibilities.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
Yeah, Amnesty a C that could at the very least get you 2 second round picks and a expiring contract, amnesty a 17 and 9 guy for……..?
for a chance to get better?
but I guess you like being 3-6 or whatever, winning 1/3 of our games, that’s real fun
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
Bell had to go anyway.
then WAIVE him
by bigkino217 on Jan 12, 2012 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The answer is clear IF they needed Bell away from the team.
Since the team amnesties him it tells me they cleared him to make room for DJ. It was stupid then and still is a stupid move.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Biedrins can start for 7 teams
Dwight can start for all the teams, Kwame can at least start for 7 teams and so could Udoh. Keeping Biedrins in this scenario as a 3rd center just cause he can start for 7 teams is simply idiotic if he’s holding you back from getting DWill, no way to justify that.
If we won with DH12 this seasons and NJ falls on its face it’s not impossible for this scenario to be possible. And just cause you think no one will sign here doesn’t mean you throw away the amnesty, heck you could hold onto it for 20 years and we may be able to attract players and need to use it. Or save it for a few more seasons and amnesty a huge contract cause you need to start over and use that money to sign multiple solid players and not just try and get a star. Keeping the amnesty doesn’t automatically mean you want to save it to get a star.
RIP Al Davis
This just in, Biedrins is not stopping anybody from signing here. If we had 21 million in cap space I wouldn’t bet a dime that we could land Howard or DW in free agency.
Well we have to trade for 1 for any hope of keeping them
Unless we went on a miracle playoff run led by Monta and Steph
RIP Al Davis
I really like
what he said about the win last night….more people need to realize this.
Everyone on FB went nuts over the win but it’s just one freakin win.
It was a cool win
And for me, more than anything it shows we have a lot of mentally tough players and mark jackson is getting thru to them.
We still have a major lack of talent, but I feel better. A lot of our guys would be good role players for when we get a legitimate core.
We're gonna run into a few wins, even better that was against the best in the league.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
A win without your starting point guard and your starting C, against the best team in the league is impressive no matter how you look at it. Steinmetz is becoming a debbie downer like TK. Decades of covering a losing team will make you see everything thru negative glasses. When you start winning they hop back on the train like TK did with SF.
One win means nothing. We are still 3-6.
by Anonymous1337 on Jan 11, 2012 6:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
3-6 without our best players playing together. Who knows what our record would be if everybody played healthy every game.
Who knows what our record would be if everybody played healthy every game.
it would probably be 3-6 cause we’d have lost the games we won that we shoulda lost. Luck has played a big part in the 3-6 record, lost some we coulda won and won some we shoulda lost.At best this is a 4.5-4.5 team or more likely a 4-5 team?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 11, 2012 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
You dont know if we lose to the 6ers if Monta played. You dont know if we lose to the clipps if we had Nate. This is what im saying to you, we dont know what we got until everybody is playing.
You dont know if we lose to the 6ers if Monta played. You dont know if we lose to the clipps if we had Nate.
you also don’t know that you could beat the bulls and heat in a different scenario so quit while you are ahead.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 11, 2012 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
Huh? We beat em. Im talking about what we could do with our current roster healthy. We are 3-6 with which some of you would say, our best player injured for just about every game so far. If any other team had the consensus best player hurt for most of the season they would get a pass for their bad start. Not here tho.
If any other team had the consensus best player hurt for most of the season they would get a pass for their bad start. Not here tho.
depends on who the other team and player was. Heat played a couple of games without wade and still were 8-1. Our team with the players we have all healthy is likely not than a .500 team for a full season so 3-6 is a reasonable record at this early time of the season. Remember we were 36-46 last season so it will take an improvement to get to .500 ball and other teams in the league are also trying to improve too.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 11, 2012 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
Its a much different team than last years. None of the bench players from last season has returned besides Udoh. No Acie Law, No Smart. Totally different.
Please. I could hear the argument if someone says different, but much different?
We kept the same damn starting 5! That play the most minutes, they matter more. Why do you think everyone was frustrated? The lack of adding small time role players surely wasn’t it.
They played a great game last night. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves expecting 20 points a night from Nate, Rush, Wright, etc.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
We have 2 Centers this season. Biedrins is playing better. We have wing defenders and a true backup pg. That matters.
Biedrins is playing better
for about 10 minutes yeah he was. Now both centers are hurt .
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 11, 2012 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
Hence my initial statement about us not knowing what we have since we haven’t had a healthy roster all season.
Hence my initial statement about us not knowing what we have since we haven’t had a healthy roster all season
well one can never know for sure until the games have been played, but can make a guess based on the facts. We got the same starting 5 , a rookie replacing vlad, kawame replacing whoever he replaced, nate replacing reggie ,and assorted new rookie faces. I don’t see a star added to the roster or anything else that would improve us more than a few games if they were blessed with average injury throughout the season. If they play well they might win enough to lose the first round draft pick but then what?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 11, 2012 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
Actually id say Mcguire is replacing Vlad. Chris Wright is replacing Al Thornton, Rush is replacing Bell, Klay is replacing Reggie. If you havent noticed thats a defensive upgrade at every position for a fanbase thats been crying about defense.
I do like what i've seen of McGuire
He’s actually been good on offense.
Limited sure, but he’s been good at cutting to rim and finishing
incorrect
Chris Wright is replacing Al Thornton
Nate is clearly our new TCG
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 12, 2012 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
Don't compare us to last year, compare us to other rosters in the West.
We’re likely looking at a 10th seed. 8th with perfect health and a few injuries to other West teams.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Mcguire is replacing Vlad. Chris Wright is replacing Al Thornton, Rush is replacing Bell, Klay is replacing Reggie. If you haven't noticed thats a defensive upgrade at every position
looks more like three rookies replacing vets and one iffy vet replacing the other?
but it don’t really matter since the starting 5 and 6th men are what regularly win games.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 12, 2012 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
reggie vs klay
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Actually Rush is the backup 2 being that he gets more run than Klay at the position. And BR is better than Reggie.
he's really not
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
rush is not as good as everyone here seems to think he is
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
So Rush is not a better overall player than Reggie?
it don’t matter, you are worried about the wrong thing. Look at our starters versus the other teams in the league and see how many you would keep if you had the choice of any player in the league. That’s the goal not a bench full of average players.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 13, 2012 12:29 AM PST up reply actions
I can accept for the sake of argument that we downgraded at the two.
But there are four other positions on the floor and our bench is better or the same at all of them.
Or was, until Kwame got hurt.
lol. j we should just give up arguing about this.
we are half-full type of people. the others are half-empty who are just skeptical. we can’t agree to disagree so lets just let this play out lol.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Jan 11, 2012 9:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
its 3-6 versus ELITE teams. 3 of the losses were close ones against pretty damn good teams too.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Jan 11, 2012 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
like utah? that was a close game but we didn't get crushed by them.
sixers are pretty damn good now. phoenix always murder us at their home so i really don’t see a huge loss where we were suppose to win.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Jan 11, 2012 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
if we were a good team, we don't lose those games
unfortunately, the warriors are an awful road team, and they never should have lost to utah at home.
i agree we are awful on the road.
but since i am a half-full kind of a guy…i believe those games were winnable but situations were just not favorable. For one the bench clearly were not in sync with the offense. Secondly, injuries made the core 3 weak.
However, we are a no excuse team so I will dismiss those and lay blame on players not making shots and not playing well. If that is the case, then player slumps are to blame. Especially Dorell who had a off first few games was just not giving any help to the starters.
Overall, yes i do agree our record does do its justice and speaks the way how we play. But my point was that we have a resilience and a hidden gem that may prove valuable. I am reminded of the we believe era when we started bad, but picked up to make it to the playoffs. It might be too optimistic, but from now on, we should expect the same type of energy against teams like bulls/knicks/heat with every single team.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Jan 11, 2012 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
our talent and potential is clearly better than the record shows.
we just have to consistently play to our potential. that is all.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Jan 11, 2012 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
but since i am a half-full kind of a guy
but you sound pretty full?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 11, 2012 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
Hmm...that's exactly how Fitz would start his sentences.
I suspect a mole!
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
The funny thing is that when he says Facebook he really means GSOM. This board is responsible for the vast majority of the material these hacks pass off as “coverage.”
As to the game, yes it’s one tick in the win column only, but in terms of what it meant or the legitimacy of this franchise, it’s ownership, and it’s coach, it was far more than that. Every player in league woke up today and saw this score. If you want to convince great players that this is a team they want to play on, beating great teams is the way you do it.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Jan 11, 2012 8:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
If you want to convince great players that this is a team they want to play on, beating great teams is the way you do it.
No, if we have a better record than the heat at the end of the season then they’ll notice. Now it’s just one game where the heat were probably looking beyond us to their game with the Clips.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 11, 2012 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
You keep pushing that line of thinking, but to me a win vs. the Heat is clearly more important than a win against, say, the Bobcats. It’s visible. It sets a precedent.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Jan 12, 2012 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
. It’s visible. It sets a precedent.
it’s still just one win. If we went 1-81 for a season but beat the heat would you still be impressed?
The only thing it really proves is that sometimes there’s a black swan in with white swans.If we do get better then it will still prove the same thing as we won’t be the team we was when we were bad. There’s organization in all the chaos you just gotta recognize it.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 12, 2012 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
As a team that is not very good, you have to overly enjoy victories like this
That is part of being a fan. We should go crazy when we beat a much better team because it helps balance out how we get all depressed when we lose to teams we we should beat. At the end of the day, this is all entertainment and that win against the Heat was extremely entertaining. If we were perennial playoff contenders I would agree with you, but we are not. We are just the Warriors.
by Togna Balogna on Jan 12, 2012 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh I'm with you guys
I did go crazy when they won but not so much after that. When you realize what our record is, it just brings me back to reality.
I honestly don't see how the team gets better via amnesty.
I agree that we need better players to compete, but the truly elite players aren’t coming to a team with no supporting cast. Deron’s not going to leave NJ for GSW for a better market – he’s going to do it for the chance to win. WIth Dwight the market argument is possible, but again, he wants to be on a team with the right pieces around him.
Replacing Lee with nothing doesn’t make us a more attractive destination.
Amnestying Lee to tank doesn’t come close to guaranteeing we get better.
The team used the amnesty for a chance to roll the dice on Chandler. It didn’t work out. It was a risk.
People need to let go of the notion that amnestying Bell was a horrible mistake. It wasn’t a difference maker for the franchise. Let it go.
by Ronaldinho on Jan 11, 2012 11:05 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
If we amnestied Lee to tank, we could have traded Monta for a top pick. Two top 12 draft talents in one offseason would appeal to a lot of players.
by Anonymous1337 on Jan 11, 2012 11:43 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So you hire West, Malone, Jackson, refurbish your arena and enter into discussions to possibly build an entirely new one…and then you cut one of your best players for the false God of “cap flexibility” and trade another for the opportunity to draft the next Kwame Brown? You destroy all your credibility and do an about face on all the talk of turning this into a top-flight franchise? No. Tanking makes sense to grizzled, angry fans who stalk message boards. It doesn’t make a single ounce of business or basketball sense.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Jan 12, 2012 8:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So you hire West, Malone, Jackson, refurbish your arena and enter into discussions to possibly build an entirely new one…
those are not the moves of a basketball fan those are the moves of an entertainment pusher.We got a perfectly good playing floor at Oaktown. Real fans don’t need more expensive corporate seats and suites we just need better players and this is apparently gonna be a good draft to snag some. I’ll take the #7 draft pick over beating the heat once and someone trying to run a pro team should be able to recognize that. Is the few more games we won in nellie’s record sealing year now worth missing out on Cousins who went 21P, 19 R in his last game?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 12, 2012 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
What are the odds that two top 12 players are better than Lee and Monta?
I know this is a stacked draft, relatively speaking, but even in stacked drafts you’re not getting elite players at five or six, much less 12.
Elite player? No
But good player with potential to be better than Monta, Lee? Yes
Better deals? Yes
Better trading chips to get a superstar? Definitely
Better trading chips to get a superstar? Definitely
I’m not so sure. After all, to get a superstar in a trade, you need to be able to send salary back. You’re trying to cover $15-$18m coming back and it’s really hard to do that with rookie-scale deals.
I agree that they’re likely to be better deals (since both Monta and Lee are moderately overpaid) but a player being a “deal” doesn’t entice an elite player to come to your team.
I look at recent other “Good” drafts, and I see guys like Kirk Heinrich, Luol Deng, Corey Brewer going 7th. In some cases, yeah, players I like. In some cases, guys who might be a slight upgrade on the guys we have.
But getting demonstrably worse in the hope of a slight upgrade just strikes me as silly. I think you care more about cap flexibility than I do, I don’t know, but right now cap flexiblity seems primarily a vehicle you use to overpay players (Chandler, DeAndre Jordan).
Cap space means nothing if players dont wanna sign with you. I hate to keep saying that but ppl dont realize it.
Actually I do hate to say it. I would love to come on this board and see ppl realize that cap space means nothing to a undesirable city. Ppl still have dreams of cap space landing a star to a undesirable city so I have to try to wake them up.
You act like the SF - bay area is like going to Wyoming
Maybe its not awesome to an athlete but it is a worldwide location , I wonder if you are even a W’s fan sometimes or if the Bay did something awful to you cause you beat this “issue” way too often.
Maybe you are a hold over from the Philly Warriors and hold a grudge…
RIP Al Davis
Yeah im just living in the Bay posting on a Warriors board daily because im not a dubs fan. If you were to take a poll on who are the most negative posters on this board in regards to the Warriors organiztion I dont think my name would get alot of votes. You cant call a person a homer and a dub hater. Which 1 is it?
Cap space means nothing if players dont wanna sign with you.
If they know you have the cap space to improve then it matters to them. Players like to go where they think management is doing a good job of building a winner. Cap space and a good draft position this next draft could be very important to a team and to their chances of signing free agents.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 12, 2012 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
I look at recent other "Good" drafts, and I see guys like Kirk Heinrich, Luol Deng, Corey Brewer going 7th. In some cases, yeah, players I like. In some cases, guys who might be a slight upgrade on the guys we have.
And in those cases, there were better options. Brewer was picked ahead of Noah, Thad Young. Deng ahead of Iguodala.
Which points to why you need to get your scouting right. (Deng over Iguodala is a smaller deal, very comparable). And that’s what bugs me, Udoh over Monre/George
Which points to why you need to get your scouting right. (Deng over Iguodala is a smaller deal, very comparable). And that’s what bugs me, Udoh over Monre/George
Well, our decision-making roster has changed dramatically since then.
But honestly I don’t know if I believe that any team is systemically better at drafting than average. A huge percentage of it seems to be luck.
The only exception seems to be when teams are scouting different markets – eg, San Antonio has done a good job of scouting international players which many teams have ignored.
But beyond that? I don’t know. I definitely think there are bad GMs, but I’m not sold that there are “good” ones, in terms of people who consistently pick a guy who, five years later, would be the highest drafted of the available players.
I’d love to see some analysis of that.
But beyond that? I don’t know. I definitely think there are bad GMs, but I’m not sold that there are "good" ones, in terms of people who consistently pick a guy who, five years later, would be the highest drafted of the available players.
I would put Pritchard and Nellie as two of best evaluators of talent.
Nellie’s draft record is great, and he pulled the biggest fleece of all time, getting dirk and nash for Tractor Traylor
Pritchard’s move in 06 for Roy/LMA was nothing short of amazing. He didn’t pick either, but instead used trades to make it happen.
Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu
BOLD words. He reminds me a lot of a young KG. PRobably not as much upside, but a lot of KG or Bosh with a defensive edge.
Other players I really like- Harrison Barnes, Jeremy Lamb, Brad Beal, Thomas Robinson
I’d also throw in Kendall MArshall as a player I’d jump in the late teens. That kid’s vision, especially in transition is like Rubio/Kidd
I like Barnes alot. He reminds me of Melo at Syracuse. But if anybody thinking Mark Jackson would agree to tank they been sniffing a good drug.
Melo lead his team to a title
Barnes is a tentative jump shooter who is a great defender that has lots of potential. He’s more of a Luol Deng type
RIP Al Davis
UNC is not a one man show
By the way, I LOVE Marshall, the PG
That guy would be a huge asset, if we can trade into late first for him. Really does have Kidd type vision on the break. I haven’t seen a college kid who gets a ball off a rebound/outlet, has his head up and finds an open man/easy bucket as consistently as him. Rubio is only one in NBA who shows that
Your right they are no 1 man show but he’d still be the best player on a Championship team. I like James Mcadoo tho, he’ll be in the 2013 draft and we could have a shot at him.
I was going to say
McAdoo is an awesome prospect. If he went to another team he’d probably get starters minutes and would be a lottery pick. However the second year at UNC will benefit him long term.
I’m telling you though, MArshall will be a very good pro. He’ll be under-appreciated cause he doesn’t score much but he has elite ball-handling vision, playmaking.
Brevin Knight?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
But if anybody thinking Mark Jackson would agree to tank they been sniffing a good drug.
maybe we should fire him then? We need a guy willing to do the hard work and not just the easy talk.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 12, 2012 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Cant plz some ppl.
they did great when they got Boom, and SJax and went to the playoffs. Then they turned around and did bad by dumping Jrich. See how that works.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 13, 2012 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
Davis kinda reminds me of Marcus Camby.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
This might be my new sig. J-RIDAH, c’mon, man!
I will say, I'm not blown away by Drummond.
Davis…. different story.
c’mon man, you know that dude is going to be good
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
just asking, where do you rank Drummond among the draft prospects?
I think Davis, Barnes are going to be better. Probably Sullinger, Tomas Robinson, Beal, Lamb will be better players. Potentially Henson, Perry Jones etc.
What do you see his upside as/what will he be?
If I was drafting my list would look like this.
1.Harrison Barnes
2.Jared Sullinger
3.Andre Drummond (purely on potential)
4.Michael Gilchrist
5.Anthony Davis
6.John Henson
7.Thomas Robinson
8.Perry Jones
I'd go
1. Davis
2. Barnes
3. Lamb
4. Sullinger
5. Robinson
6. Drummond (potential)
7. Beal
8. Gilchrist
I dunno about Kansas' Robinson.
I literally know nothing about him other than he didn’t get much focus last year due to the Morris twins.
I guess I don’t trust Kansas prospects anymore. Good role players, not great NBA players. Plus I don’t see Robinson having a size advantage in the NBA or with a specific skill set.
But again, have barely watched him play.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
We can trade up to late teens early 20s
Some teams are looking for money. Money + a 2nd rounder, they’ll drop back 15-20 picks.
sam
the point is not even about Drummond’s relative rank in this draft (if you think he’s going that low, that would only strengthen the other side of the argument that it’s a very strong draft).
The point J-RIDAH made that no player in this draft is better than Monta or Lee is ABSURD! End of story.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
So you think its a player in the draft better than Lee or Monta right now? Its not even a Demarcus Cousins in this draft and he’s not better than Lee.
Not right this second
Lots of these players are developmental but will be better in time
Sullinger may be better then Lee thogh
RIP Al Davis
I get that Drummond is probably a top 3 lock
I just don’t see why. I think players projected 5-15 are better.
I was just asking your opinion, why you think he’s so good, other than physical tools
I think Drummond has the benefit of being 1 of the only true C’s with decent athleticism in a draft that doesnt have any. Plus he’s still living off his hype in high school similar to how Derrick Favors was able to parlay his hs hype and go 3rd in the draft when Monroe and Cousins was easily better. Potential goes a long way and at the very least I see Drummond being a Roy Hibbert in the league which every team couls use. Cant pass on a C in todays NBA.
I agree with your point about Favors using his hype while
Monroe and Cousins produced in college. But Hibbert’s skill level was pretty advanced in College. I’ve heard Drummond is still very raw. I don’t get that comp.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
And Hibbert spent like 3-4 years in college.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
even without Drummond (which he's already said he's not coming out)
this draft is the strongest in years
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
No argument.
The question, however, is if that translates into “likely to get a player as good or better than David Lee” with the picks we’d likely be able to get by tanking.
I think it's very likely
and it’s just about our only hope of getting substantially better in the next few years with the contracts on this team
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
I don't.
I don’t think it’s remotely clear that, say, the #6 or #7 pick is going to turn into a player better than David Lee.
that depends on how good you think david lee is
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
dude
you didn’t know who James Harden was until a week ago, so…
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
by Evanz on Jan 12, 2012 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
lol..
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Make it as your sig. Im very confident in my talent evaluation abilities. Im telling you Davis and Aminu will have similar careers in the NBA.
Im very confident in my talent evaluation abilities.
.
.
.
Charles Jenkins could be the ‘We Believe’ Baron Davis
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
by Evanz on Jan 12, 2012 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I still stand by that. Never said he could do it as a rook. Im confident that he can become that player tho.
then you're still wrong and don't even know it
why would anyone listen to you?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
I will give Evan this. He comes with shiny stats and graphs to help us dumber folks.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
So is everyone who thinks they know the game
If we were as good as we think why are we not GM’s or something of the such? Given some of us aren’t old enough but still
RIP Al Davis
Everybody who is a good talent evaluator cant be a GM or even a scout. Those are the most coveted jobs on the planet. We can converse on sports boards and time will show who could be a GM and who dont know their hoops.
I think most people here realize that we’re all just a bunch of passionate fans shooting the shite.
Of course, there are also the special few who are “very confident in their talent evaluation abilities”… ;-P
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 12, 2012 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
lol
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
It doesn’t help, WArriors GM’ing dilludes you into thinking you’d make a great GM
I was pretty confident TMac would have been better than Adonal.
I was positive Granger was a better pick than Ike, and I thought that Bynum kid was awfully intriguing.
I knew Monroe and George were better than Udoh.
Theirfor I am NBA quality GM
OMG, I wanted Granger so much.
Then again the year later I wanted Ronny Brewer over POB. So my GM’ing capabilities would be probably no better than 50/50. Haha. At least I don’t pick complete busts. So there’s that…
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Those are the most coveted jobs on the planet.
I highly doubt that.
Who wants to work for opinionated rich owners who’d sabotage your efforts? Give me Tiger wood’s job or Jay-z’s gig. The pope seems like he’s got a good thing going too.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 12, 2012 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
My dad doesn't own an NBA team/didn't play in NBA/didn't coach in NBA/isn't best friends with Pat Riley etc.
Sports is among the most nepotism based industries in the us.
What taf said. Kirk Lacob is a NBA exec with zero prior experience. Kris Weems went from coaching high school hoops to a NBA staff. Nepotism is the perfect word.
Kirk Lacob didn't have zero experience.
He had experience comparable with people unrelated to team owners who get their first job in the NBA – as evidenced by the fact that the first job he was hired for (althoughit fell through) was not with a team that his dad owned.
Kris Weems is a skills coach – in other words, an entry-level coaching position in the NBA.
Kirk Lacob's dad was a part owner of Celtics
He interned for Danny Ainge, he got a reference to work for Steve Kerr.
Anyway you slice it, that’s an opportunity you or I would NOT get. Doesn’t mean he’s not smart enough, or qualified. Only that nepotism plays a part because it’s probably most desired job in the US for young males and their are many good candidates.
Well, I have no disagreement with what you just wrote.
THe NBA is a very tight fraternity.
My point is that nepotism got Kirk his internship with the Celtics, yes. But from that point on he was in the fraternity and capable of being hired by an NBA team without the special influence of that team’sowner.
In other words, there’s no reason to think his hiring by the Warriors is some sort of mark of incompetence. Kirk’s resume is comparable to guys who get the sort of job he got – and yes, that resume usually includes something that got them on the “inside” that you or I don’t have.
He's a smart innovative guy but...
He wouldn’t have gotten the job without his Dad though. I’m not sure there’s much of a difference from MB or you and him, but you guys aren’t working for the Warriors.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 12, 2012 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
He wouldn’t have gotten the job without his Dad though.
He wouldn’t have gotten the job without his dad getting him that first internship.
That’s a key clause. It sounds like you’re saying he wouldn’t have gotten a job with an NBA team without his dad pulling the string for that hire, and that’s demonstrably untrue.
If he didn't get that internship, does he get any NBA job?
I’m not saying he’s incompetent (quite contrary) just that he’s lucky.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 13, 2012 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
Except Aminu is a combo forward
And Davis is a defensive monster at PF in the KG mold, Drummond plays for UConn which is a guard heavy system where bigs are not utilized. And guys like Jeremy Lamb and Austin Rivers are going to be really good players
RIP Al Davis
it won't take very long
lol
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
you're silly J
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
One of the most comical comments I've ever seen.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 12, 2012 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
join the sig party
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Cleveland just got 2 top 12 picks in the 2011 draft, so did Utah. Lets see how many free agents beat down the door to sign with them.
who cares?
Cleveland just got 2 top 12 picks in the 2011 draft, so did Utah.
That’s what they got. Cleveland got Irving and T. Thompson who are going to be real good. Utah got Kanter who is going to be very good.
We got…Klay? Next year, we got…nobody? And no free agents? You know they don’t want to come here anyway, so how we supposed to get better except through the draft.
Your logic has no logic, J.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
I was replying to somebody that said 2 top 12 picks would be appealing to free agents. Utah and Cle just had 2 top 12 picks and nobody is gonna sign there.
Aminu and Henson are two completely different players
how can you possibly compare Anthony Davis to Aminu? #smh
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
Out of curiosity, why?
His freshman numbers are not poor at all. He’s a bit passive on offense, which I think is more systemic of the amount of talent he plays with. But defensively, he does A LOT.
Davis- 29.1 mpg, 12.7 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 4.6 blocks!, 63.7%
BGriffin- 28.4 mpg, 14.7 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 0.8 blocks, 56.8%
Bosh- 20.1 mpg, 15.6 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.0 blocks, 56%
LMA- 22.2 mpg, 9.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.5 blocks, 66.3%
Henson- 15.7 mpg, 5.8 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 1.6 blocks, 48.6%
Aminu- 29.0 mpg, 12.9 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 1.2 blocks, 51.2%
If those guys fill their potential they will have pull
Star power has pull, they could be stars
RIP Al Davis
If you was replying to me I disagree. Lebron James had no pull in bringing free agents to Cle. Nobody was willing to sign there besides Larry Hughes.
Who was an available free agent in 2005?
It’s not like Ray allen, DWade, Dirk were free agents…
They had no cap
They over payed mediocre players like Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Varejao etc.
They almost got Amare as well and he would have resigned there, but they opted for Jamison
RIP Al Davis
Okay they had no cap, neither did the Clippers when they got CP3, neither will whatever team that lands Dwight via trade. Players force their way to teams with no cap space all the time like Melo did. Nobody was willing to form a big 3 in Cleveland even if Gilbert created the cap space. Irving can be the next CP3 and he wont find a top free agent willing to live in that dump called Cleveland. Winning dont matter when it comes to a NBA player having to live in Cleveland. They will have to grossly overpay to land a guy.
It was still a huge waste
We don’t know when it could have come handy. When a trade where we take MORE salaries, would come in handy.
Maybe the next disgruntled baron davis type wants to be moved? IF we could save our amnesty, we could cut biedrins or Lee, to make room under the cap.
USing a 4 mil expiring for amnesty is just plain dumb
Don't think of it at a $4m. Think of it as a shot to get Chandler.
That’s why we lost Lin, too.
It’s great to imagine that we’re in a world with total certainty, but we’re not. You think you have a chance for a major upgrade that requires you to use the amnesty, and it doesn’t happen … that’s too back.
Since you’re the one advocating that the team take risks to get better rather than go to short term fixes, I find it rather unfair that you’re fixating on a risk the team took and calling it a huge mistake. I’d hate to think of the words you’d have if they traded Curry for CP3 and CP3 walked.
Is overpaying Chandler worth the amnesty though?
We’d cut 1 over payed player for another
RIP Al Davis
cont'd
Because in my opinion, overpaying on Chandler says ‘you think core is good enough and we just need right player to fill around them’
gambling on cp3 is saying ‘clearly we lack a star’
I suppose this is our different philosophies at work.
Your approach seems to be, “do whatever it takes to maximize your chance of drafting a star or getting one in free agency by maximizing cap flexibility.”
Whereas my approach is “get better players when you can, because that puts you in the best position to attract a star when one’s available, and worry about how to make the salaries work when the time comes.”
Going after Chandler – which I think would have put our core, healthy, in position to potentially win a first round playoff series – is a good move by the second approach by a bad one by the first approach.
I see your point
I do think we lack talent though. So all options should be considered. Be it moving monta lee for 1-2 players each, to give us something closer to Denver/Phili where they beat you with depth of good players or trying to pile all into the ‘big move’, right now the Warriors are in a position of no depth but a mediocre core
I'm not sure I agree.
I think our depth – Brandon Rush, Epke Udoh, Kwame Brown, Nate Robinson, Dominick McGuire – is just fine. Klay Thompson is too early to evaluate.
Rather, I think our problem is twofold:
First, we’re just not getting enough out of the center position. Biedrins is playing better but just not playing enough minutes yet. That’s the most important position on the floor and most of our minutes there are going to a guy who should be backup.
Second, our big three compare unfavorably to the big three on good teams.
eg, if you say the contenders right now are Miami, Chicago, Lakers, Clippers, Dallas, and OKC, you’re looking at:
Wade-LeBron-Bosh
Rose-Noah-Boozer
Kobe-Pau-Bynum
CP3-Griffin-Jordan
Dirk-Terry-West?
Durant-Westbrook-Harden
I think it’s telling that we would trade our big three for their big threes (when thinking of this season only) in a heartbeat in all cases except maybe Dallas, who I only included because they won the title last year, but I don’t think they’re a contender without Chandler. (Add Chandler instead of West and again, it’s a no-briainer. I’m not even really sure who their third-best player is now).
Worth noticing also that in most of those cases, they “win” going down the list. Only in a few cases do we maybe win one spot (eg, I’d take Durant over Curryfor best player, Westbrook over Monta for second best, but Harden and Lee might be a toss-up.)
Again, this is thinking of this season only.
Whereas I think if you look at our bench players they actually compare favorably with the benches of several of those teams. I’d take our bench over the Laker’s bench, for example, quite possibly the Clippers, Dallas’ …
Right, but that's one team model
The ‘big 3’ model. I don’t think Dallas uses that model for one.
The others (who do use it), feature 1 max contract player, usually 2 near, and a 3rd making what monta/lee make. Our big 3 is not paid to be such, infact they are overpaid even on their deals. (minus curry who is still on a rookie year).
I just find it hard to say ‘big 3’ when miami’s 3 make 17 mil, LAkers 3 all make over 15 (and pau and kobe, significantly more).
So then I get comparing to teams like Portland Phili, Denver and I’m not certain their ‘main 3’ are better than ours. Iggy/Jrue/Hawes, LMA/Wallace/Matthews, Lawson/Gallinari/Nene are much better than GSWs 3. However I am positive their next 5-7 players are much better. If we put Curry, Monta, Lee with Camby, Batum, Crawford, Oden, Felton or Thad Young, Lou, etc. we’d be better
You’re definitely right. However I don’t particularly think our depth is anything special. It’s great if you have Wade/Lebron/Bosh though!
Portland Phili, Denver and I’m not certain their ‘main 3’ are better than ours. Iggy/Jrue/Hawes, LMA/Wallace/Matthews, Lawson/Gallinari/Nene are much better than GSWs 3
Denver I don’t think is even close. Nene is better than anyone we have. (As I think Jae first said, “best player” is the most important position on the floor). So now you’re talking Afflalo/Lawson over Monta/Lee, and I don’t think that’s that close (although I know you like Monta more than Afflalo.)
(My embracing of the “big three” wasn’t to embrace the Miami model, but rather because the Warriors seem to have a long-term commitment to three players – so they represent our core).
I’m not ready to call Philly a good team yet. Look at their schedule, it’s been super soft: wins over Suns, us, NoH, Detroit, Toronto, Indiana, and Sacramento.
And that leaves Portland. And yes, I think most teams would take LMA, Wallace, and and Matthews over our three. I think it’s closer than it is with other better teams, but for this season, would you rather have LMA or Curry? Wallace or Monta? Those aren’t really tough calls, are they?
Good points. I do think Lawson and Curry are a lot closer than most would admit here. And if we re-drafted 2009, he is probably 3rd player picked.
As for Portland, to make it a better comparison. Do you think Portland would be better or worse with Curry/Lee in place of Felton/LMA?
I think Curry is an upgrade over Felton. I think Lee a downgrade over LMA.
On the other hand:
player RAPM WP
Monta -3.4 4.56
Curry -.3 6.82
Lee -1.1 4,75
Felton .9 6.92
LMA 3.5 7.58
Wallace 1.7 9.91
Matthews -1.5 6.99
From a statistical perspective, it doesn’t seem that close. Subjectively I would prefer Curry to Felton, but RAPM prefers Felton. (Bearing in mind that WP blames the whole team for the team’s defense, so the Warriors WP would be depressed some by being on a horrid defensive team).
Intresting that the statistical measures prefer portland even if you shuffle around your definition of their top three players slightly.
what RAPM numbers are you using?
Curry is +1.5 and Felton is +0.3
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking_rec
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
Happy to be wrong.
I was looking at last year’s full-season numbers (I think).
Whoops. My bad. I was using the wrong season’s numbers. I thought that number was way too low for Curry.
I thought the 2011 numbers were this season, not last season. I’ve made that mistake before. Sorry about that.
(I freakin’ hate that site. It sucks donkey testicles.)
Here are the corrected RAPM numbers for last season:
player RAPM WP
Monta -2.9 4.56
Curry 2.1 6.82
Lee -.8 4,75
Felton .7 6.92
LMA 3.5 7.58
Wallace 4.2 9.91
Matthews -1.4 6.99
The numbers you cited include some games this year, I think, which might muddy thing given sample size issues, etc.
So RAPM clearly prefers them and thinks that Curry would be the third-best player on their team.
I’d hate to think of the words you’d have if they traded Curry for CP3 and CP3 walked.
I’d be upset, no doubt.
I still think it was a move we should have made.
It’d give us a 1 year clock to make moves to keep him, but in my opinion, a gamble we should have made.
I think taking a risk at a top 5 NBA player, a bonafide superstar and elite player is a risk worth taking. A lot more than a risk on a very nice, defensive center.
You never bring in a guy that dont wanna be here. You certainly dont move your franchise player for him. Curry could get us a good player that wants to be here long term. CP3 wanted L.A and he got it.
CP3 Loves Bowling
Little known fact, Bay has best bowling alleys in USA
it was a joke
Just wanted to post a bowling pic
Think of it as a shot to get Chandler.
we didn’t amnesty bell until after chandler was gone. we did it for a shot to get deandre.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
we would have had to amnesty biedrins to have a shot at chandler
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
I think it's mostly frustrating because we thought we were...
Done as being the franchise that makes the leauge’s most questionable moves. I just want an end to the front office buffoonery. No matter which way you look at it, Jordan would not be making a major difference for this team. We’d still barely eek out an 8th seed, maybe higher but probably not.
Why waste an asset just to say we bloated our cap to win a marginal playoff seed? 4 million more to offer DJ when the Clips already stated they’d match is wasting everyone’s time and makes the warriors look like they don’t know what they’re doing. What a familiar feeling. It’s more a feeling of disappointment, but that’s what this franchise does whenever you give them high hopes.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
No one. Probably.
We found out last year other teams would trump our offer. That’s why we’ve consistently had to overpay. I’m not arguing that part. It’s that the Warriors keep focusing on guys who don’t make as much impact in GSW as they do elsewhere. We’ve seen this already with Maggette, Fisher, Lee, and all of our own homegrown over paid players. One of GSW’s biggest flaws is their mis-recognition of talent and how much to pay for it.
This is why I’d focus less on FA until you found a core set of players to grow with. This is why I think the draft is the single best way to get better. Not the only way, but a necessary tool. The Warriors just always seem to #(**&$ the pick up.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Replacing Lee with nothing doesn’t make us a more attractive destination.
yeah it does cause they could spend all that money on new nightclubs to attract the top players.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 11, 2012 11:09 PM PST reply actions
lol it doesn't save them money, only cap space ;)
I forgot about that I was so giddy at the thought of new clubs for Da Stars.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 12, 2012 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
Got a lot of respect for Matt but he’s contradicting himself here a bit. He talks about Warriors needing to taking a chance but then criticizes what the Warriors FO have been doing so far. Lacob & Co. have done a lot trying to take chances, from almost signing Chandler to putting an offer for Jordan, involving themselves in the CP3 trade talks and now talking to Orlando about D12.
It sure is easy to sit back and laugh at all their moves but real life is not as easy as “Warriors need to do something here”. When they were recruiting Chandler, they wanted to bring that defensive minded C to improve the roster and the team record but in the back of their minds, they knew down the line they could put a package around Curry & Chandler for Dwight Howard which would have looked a lot more attractive to Orlando, so yes they did have a plan after signing Chandler.
When it came to DA Jordan, of course it was a hard choice to amnesty Charlie Bell and a choice that Warriors FO probably didn’t want to make but again they had to take a CHANCE. They needed to clear cap space to sign DA Jordan to an offer sheet, they tought Jordan was going to help the team and again another potential package down the line for Howard. For the people that still don’t know, you can only use the amnesty on the players that was on your roster when the clause came out. Who else would they have used it on to make room for Jordan. Biedrins can be easily traded for expirings and David Lee is posting double-doubles for the team, you just can’t amnesty someone who contributes that much to a team, it would’ve definitely been nice if we still had that amnesty in case something came up and we needed to get rid of Biedrins immediately to sign a FA or something but Larry Riley said it best “I refuse to hold on for 2, 3 years if we can make the team better right now”, he’s right, he took a swing at DA Jordan who would have made the team better immediately. He missed but he still took that swing, that’s really all you can ask for from the Warriors side.
by Babyface Assassin on Jan 12, 2012 10:54 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Now let’s talk about Chris Paul, people criticize them now for not parting with Curry, that the Warriors overvalue their players way too much. It’s obvious what they wanted to do… They tried to give them Monta instead and wanted to hold on to Curry not to pair CP3 and Curry in the backcourt together but package Curry and (at the time) Chandler for Dwight Howard. They knew if they get CP3 for Curry straight up and no Dwight, CP3 would have never resigned with the Warriors and just like that, at the end of a 66 game season, they would have lost CP3 and Curry.
Finally Superman, there are so many articles local and national clowing on the Warriors FO about making a run at Howard, how ridiculous it is, how he will not stay here. Again, they are taking a chance!!! They are willing to gamble their future franchise player that they can convince Dwight Howard to stay by surrounding him with a team that can compete.
Now can someone please explain to me how the Warriors are not taking chances or trying to make something happen???
by Babyface Assassin on Jan 12, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
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