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take a chill pill dude

David lee is doing well.
We got way bigger problems to worry about at the moment.
Lee is probably one of, if not the best performing Warrior so far. Consistant too.

by maryjane on Jan 14, 2012 12:56 AM PST reply actions  

I might agree with you...

But why recommend the chill-pill?… No one seems to be burnin with anger here.

by miguelp on Jan 14, 2012 3:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, for one thing, “18/10” means almost nothing without context.

.524 true shooting %
1.4 assists / 2.9 turnovers
-9.21 adjusted plus/minus (worst on the team)

Of course, it’s still a small sample size, and those are all well below his career norms, so they should be expected to be rise. But since you’re talking about this season only — and using simplistic / deceiving numbers to do so — it should probably be pointed out that statistically, Lee has been pretty bad so far this year.

Career wise, I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Lee’s numbers, aside from defense, have been really good: 15.7 pts on .597 ts% / 11.1 boards / 2.5 ast per 36 (trending slightly up in points and assists, trending down in efficiency and rebounding). The main issues with him are twofold:

1. His terrible defense (half the game, after all)
2. His contract — a bloated, escalating deal that will pay him $57.5M for four years after this one, including over $15M for his age 31 and 32 seasons

These have been really the only problems anyone here has ever had with Lee. To post “18/10,” is if that somehow negates either of those problems, seems to reflect (once again) a compulsion to repeat one’s own simplistic talking points, and an inability to listen to what anyone else on this board has to say.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 14, 2012 5:44 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Thats true BUT....

Looking deeper-

Lee’s shooting 48.9% fg% which is a career low. Lower than last years 50.4% and his career before it which never saw below 54%..

Breaking it down-
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=David%20Lee

At the rim- 64.7% (good but below his average)
3-9ft- 35.1% on 4.1 attempts (by far his worst)
10-15ft- 46.2% on 1.4 attempts
16-23ft-42% of 4.0 attempts (in line)

The biggest problem with Lee is shot selection. Whoever things he can run out of the low post region (3-9ft) is sadly mistaken. I’d wager majority of those misses are those back to basket hook and turn shots.

If he took that shot out of his game he’d be 6-11.1 per game, which is (you guessed it) 54% and his career average and his TS% at .583.

Funny how some bad play calling can just kill a player efficiency?

On the positive, i think the staff realized it, and has gone away from it. His play has thus improved.

We’ve only played 9 games. Putting too much stock into his stats is a bad idea. It’s certainly something to watch but if we take the phili-game out (awesome 8-24), his FG% jumps to .522 and his TS% jumps to .555

I’ll be watching more carefully, but I’ve been encouraged by the upgrade in play and the change in useage.

Good coaches realize what isn’t working and make adjustments after a few games. Seems our guys do that. Bad coaches open every game with same sequence (biedrins in the post!)

by tafkasam on Jan 14, 2012 9:15 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

We’ve only played 9 games. Putting too much stock into his stats is a bad idea.

Totally agreed. I posted his stats through 9 (followed by the requisite “SSS” disclaimer) only because that was the premise of this diary.

Good points overall. Broadly speaking, Lee’s been around long enough that it’s fairly safe to say “he is what he is:” an efficient scorer at a decent volume, very good individual rebounder (though without much positive influence on his team’s overall rebounding), poor defender. Any early numbers that suggest a departure from that should be expected to regress to the mean.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 14, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Bad coaches open every game with same sequence (biedrins in the post!)

This infuriated me about Smart

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Jan 15, 2012 7:16 AM PST up reply actions  

On the flipside

Monta- 42.9% from 3-9 feet.

Not all post ups, (I wish i had synergy stats) but we really should post him up more, run DLee out of high post, Curry (when he’s back) on the same side perimeter. Use a triangle there, would maximize all 3 players.

by tafkasam on Jan 14, 2012 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Ohh I listen, half the board wants him amnestied.

and an inability to listen to what anyone else on this board has to say.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 7:52 AM PST reply actions  

That could be — I’d say less than half, but certainly more than a few. But I’d guess none of the people who said they wanted to amnesty him ever thought he was incapable of putting up 18/10. Why should they? He’s done it before. The 20/12 he put up (with good efficiency) his last season with NYK is likely the biggest reason we gave him such a big contract. To critics of the contract, it also displayed two of the hallmarks of unwise personnel moves: (1) “buying high” based on a career season; and (2) failure to look beyond the superficial numbers at how those numbers have correlated to wins.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 14, 2012 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Im just saying dude is very unappreciated around here. The “cool” thing to do is say he’s a bad player not worth his contract. Nobody denies he maybe overpaid, what I would deny is that no player better is willing to sign here for less than what Lee is making. I’d argue that a better player wont sign here for what Lee is making now. So if thats the case why not applaud him for coming here and contributing? How many times do you have to get turned down by chics you think are hotter than your girlfriend before you appreciate your girl for choosing you?

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

How many times do you have to get turned down by chics you think are hotter than your girlfriend before you appreciate your girl for choosing you?

Gold!

But for me the difference is, Monta’s my lady.

by tafkasam on Jan 14, 2012 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Even Halle Berry got cheated on. Your girl is never the hottest.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Your girl is never the hottest.

Haha , your new sig line? The warriors fan experience in it’s elemental form!

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 14, 2012 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

The 20/12 he put up (with good efficiency) his last season with NYK is likely the biggest reason we gave him such a big contract.

Actually, I firmly believe we gave him such a big contract because Larry Riley SUCKS at negotiating. I’ve spent extensive time researching. The only teams interested in him were Chicago, Phoenix and NJ. Chicago signed Boozer. NJ flirted with 6/60mil but never offered it. Phoenix wasn’t willing to go that high.

We got taken.

I’ll point to two ofthe more shrewd GM’s… Morey and Pritchard (why we didn’t hire him BOGGLES my mind. Lacob likes him, according to my friend who went to Sloan conference, they sat together half the time and were really buddy-buddy).

Morey gave Scola 5/40 mil in 2010.

Pritchard gave LMA off the 08/09 year when he was 23 years old, and averaging 18/8 (with upside and superior D) 5 years/65 mil. Similar to Lee’s but not as escalating, and much more tradeable and reasonable cause of his age.

I see no reason Lee should have gotten a bigger deal than Monta.

d (2) failure to look beyond the superficial numbers at how those numbers have correlated to wins.

I said it then, and I still believe it. Gimmick system. Same thing for guys like Morrow, Reggie, CJ etc. who of course are good players (and on their contracts all reasonable), but they really took advantage of the system.

by tafkasam on Jan 14, 2012 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Then the bulls GM is a terrible negotiator for giving Booz more than Lee. Brand got a deal basically the same as Lee a few years back. Sorry to break it to you but a guy coming off a 20 and 12 allstar season will always get close to or more than what Lee got. Good luck getting a guy with those stats to come HERE for less money.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

We got taken.

but Lee had a career game against us the season before we signed him?

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 14, 2012 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

did chuck hayes have a career game against the kings?

"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah

by bigkino217 on Jan 14, 2012 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

did chuck hayes have a career game against the kings?

haha, I don’t know , i’d never even heard of him till the kings got him.

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 14, 2012 10:37 AM PST up reply actions  

well he triple doubled against us last season haha

"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah

by bigkino217 on Jan 14, 2012 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

re: surprised this logic didnt bring riley to offer chuck hayes a contract

oh man, I would have loved to get Chuck Hayes
(but he’s out injured right now, so nbd)

"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus

by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 16, 2012 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I think David has actually played pretty well this season. I’m glad we have him. He won’t be worth the salary for his contract, but he provides the attributes the Warriors have been missing for a long time.

by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 14, 2012 8:07 AM PST reply actions  

I'm lovin DLee this season, he's having a great year.

Unfortunately the criticisms of Lee will continue if more of his 18/10 games do not result in more wins. Player’s weaknesses are going to be heavily criticized if a team is not consistently succeeding. And it looks like this team is not going to have a chance to build any momentum until Curry returns from injury.

by warriorsandgiantsfan on Jan 14, 2012 8:42 AM PST reply actions  

What PF destroyed Dirk so far this season? He’s defending better than he ever has this season so its not like he’s a liability on D right now. He’s having a better season than Dirk.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

He’s having a better season than Dirk.

Nope. Dirk’s putting up 18 ppg, in less minutes and higher efficiency.

But that’s ok. I don’t compare Lee to Dirk. I’m more curious to compare him to likes of Zbo, Aldridge, Boozer, Love, Amare, Scola etc.

He’s DEFINITELY having a better year than Zbo!

by tafkasam on Jan 14, 2012 9:17 AM PST up reply actions  

His efficiency is unacceptably low -

- although of course that doesn’t explain a lot of it, since most of the Lee-haters are Monta-lovers.

I do like his defensive effort this year, he seems to be doing better in that department, and I don’t feel like we’re seeing empty-rebounds, either.

Ultimately, a rising tide lifts all boats. If we start winning, Lee will get more respect.

by Ronaldinho on Jan 14, 2012 9:03 AM PST reply actions  

Its not Lee’s fault were losing.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

It's not not his fault, either.

Dorell’s play has been a bigger problem this year, for example. Monta’s play has been pretty bad at times. And obviously we’re still feeling our way around Curry’s absence.

Lee could do better, though. eg against Orlando, there were two consecutive shots where he passed up a jumper inside the ft line to drive and ended up not getting a shot. He shoots those, maybe we win that game.

by Ronaldinho on Jan 14, 2012 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

If you look above to my reply to Sleepy, you’ll see my thoughts.

Both he and Monta have been overall poor early on. However, you can’t put too much strength into it just yet.

So far, I take positives, both are playing better more committed defense. Offensively, our staff’s still trying to find itself. The problem is, no one on this team is like Dirk, Lebron, Durant, where you can put them in any offensive system and see great production. They all have strengths and weaknesses. So we need to figure out best ways to use them.

Posting up Lee is towards the bottom of ‘best ways to use’

by tafkasam on Jan 14, 2012 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Some would say faint praise, but

can you name a better Warrior 4 since Webber?

Before that, what? Was Nate Thurmond a 4?

I am liking Lee a lot. If Kwame and Andris played a full season, Lee could make the All Star game again. And the “he’s overpaid” rant is getting tiresome when we continue to try to overpay for good players and no one else will even consider us.

Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

by fotd on Jan 14, 2012 9:21 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Yep. I really dont get it. When Lee killed us as a knick in that huge game he had. I remember alot of ppl on this board was begging for a player like Lee. The second after he signed the contract everybody starts talking about how bad the contract/trade was. I just dont get it. The idea of Lee’s contract coming off the books via amnesty and us being able to sign somebody better than him makes me question why I even debate alot of ppl on here.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 9:29 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

Plus his efficiency will get better once Ellis and Curry are feeding him on the pick and roll and pick and pop plays. I think his assist totals will also get better.

by warriorsnut on Jan 14, 2012 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

being the best 4 the warriors have had since webber isnt really a great accomplishment

when you consider the 4s we’ve had since webber

"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah

by bigkino217 on Jan 14, 2012 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

J-RIDAH, you're my favorite poster, dude

But I was about to post a piece basically declaring David Lee not a starting Power Forward for a playoff team, and certainly not a championship team.

Here’s my point. Forget the stats. When they played the Lakers, and he was guarding Kobe, DLee was the same size as Kobe. DLee should be playing the position Kobe is playing for a “Big” team. Not Power Forward. Dear God not Center.

He’s too small. He’s just too small. He has great skills, and a big heart, but he is too small for power forward.

If he is used like Lamar Odom as a super 6th man leading the second unit, then I think you’ve got yourself a playoff team. But if he’s your starting power forward, well, Don Nelson would be proud. He’s too small.

by Gainon10 on Jan 14, 2012 10:22 AM PST reply actions  

Not true at all, to say that means Chuck Hayes is a guard and so was Charles Barkley.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I want to be clear, I like David Lee as a player! But when I look at him standing next to really big men, he’s undersized. Kwame Brown really opened my eyes as to what a legitimate big man looks like in a Warriors uniform. He looked much larger than Beans or any other Warrior in recent years.

I’m just saying you need a COUPLE of really good players of THAT size in the front court to be a championship team. David Lee puts up good numbers and playes hard and makes good things happen. He’s just not as large as legitimate big men. And he and the team pay a price for that on defense.

by Gainon10 on Jan 14, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Charles Barkley is one of the best 10 scorers of all time and Chuck Hayes is a legitimately good post defender. Barkley used his size to his advantage and Chuck Hayes his low center of gravity to his advantage as well. David Lee plays like the guys who play his position, only he’s smaller and weaker.

I heard he doesn't like music.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 15, 2012 2:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Pau Gasol versus David Lee

Let’s compare a starting power forward/backup center from a championship challenging team to the Warriors.

I would give the nod to David Lee in terms of toughness, heart, and effort.

I would, as a GM pick Pau Gasol over David Lee for my team 100% of the time. Even giving away the toughness and energy and sheer heart. Because Gasol is legitimate 7’ and is actually large enough to defend the position, while putting up numbers comparable to Lee, though perhaps slightly lower. As soft as Gasol is, he’s still larger, and that makes him a better inside defender.

If you have Gasol as your starting PF and Lee backing him up, you’re going for the trophy and Cuban probably owns the team. That’s what I’m trying to say. Not that Lee’s bad, but what yo ask of him shows a lot about your teams chances.

by Gainon10 on Jan 14, 2012 10:43 AM PST reply actions  

That and the fact that Pau is better, for all the reasons Gainon10 mentions. Pau is 7 foot and, when necessary, can be a plus defender at his position. Lee is at hopeless defensive disadvantage against most NBA 4s. Pau and Lee may be pretty close offensively (Lee’s a bit quicker, Pau more of a legit post threat in the halfcourt) but as they say, defense is half the game.

Assuming equal ages (Gasol is three years older), I don’t see how anyone would take Lee at $14M a year over Gasol at $19M.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 14, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I liked him better when Kwame was next to him

If your PF is a horrible defender, you need a big, tough defender to offset his deficiencies. Unfortunately, now Lee is left to man the post alongside Biedrins. It’s not a pretty sight when they face teams like Orlando or the Lakers.

by Pippen on Jan 14, 2012 11:11 AM PST reply actions  

It’s not a pretty sight when they face teams like Orlando or the Lakers.

Biedrins did rather well against Dwight, you might have noticed.

by Ronaldinho on Jan 14, 2012 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, he used his 6 fouls very efficiently. The Warriors need a big body to bang people around, and sadly, neither Biedrins or Lee is capable of doing that.

by Pippen on Jan 14, 2012 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

as far as I can tell, Beans stopped Howard most of the time. Lee also did that on 4th.

I don’t think Brown’s defense is better than Beans nor Lee. Brown is okay with 6 additional fouls to give.

by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Jan 14, 2012 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Again, I just don't see it.

“banging” isn’t a particularly important skill in and of itself.

Biedrins was able to hold position against Dwight as well as just about anybody. The number of centers who are regularly asked to defend Dwight one on one is very short. Biedrins grabbed rebounds, challenged shots, and held his position.

Defensively, what else do you want? Biedrins is much better than Kwame defensively.

by Ronaldinho on Jan 14, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Defensively, what else do you want?

Bill Russell

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 14, 2012 1:09 PM PST reply actions  

Much respect...digital Lee is ballin'!

"That was very funny about the old man basketball skills. One is lucky to escape injury when playing against those crafty, crusty sumbitches. And it’s just demoralizing when they demonstrate yet again how to use the backboard from range." - Charlie Custer

by SmittytheCutman on Jan 14, 2012 3:25 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Consistency???!!!!

They comment about David Lee’s consistency, but I would call him very inconsistent. I thought at the time and still think his contract is horrible. However, David Lee in the game against the Heat played like a guy worth his contract and possibly more. When he first got here before Wilson Chandler bit him, he had me doubting my first impressions.
There is good David Lee and bad David Lee. Good David Lee could lead Warriors to playoffs. He is a slightly below average defender, but makes up for it on the offensive end with good passing, average to above average rebounding, and great efficient offense. This is the guy who showed up for the Heat game and seemed to keep it doing against the Magic… at least the first half.
Bad David Lee, the guy who plays no defense and is marginal offensively should not even start over Udoh. He spazzes out with horrible passes and gets only uncontested rebounds.

by pericles31081 on Jan 14, 2012 4:38 PM PST reply actions  

Another good game.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 6:52 PM PST reply actions  

yup youre boy david lee definetly showed what he can do on a consistent basis...

get his numbers, not play defense, and the dubs lose the ball game to yet another bad team.

by Spreefor3!!! on Jan 14, 2012 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

It is not like everyone else in the team can give us the win

so Lee offense better than his defense. what so wrong about that??

by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Jan 14, 2012 7:09 PM PST up reply actions  

His defense often negates his offense

And he doesn’t make the impact on games his numbers suggest

RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5

by dubzfan on Jan 14, 2012 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Monta for better or worse

Steph for better or worse as well (today he made an impact cause he was out and missed him)

With Lee playing well or not well never seems like it helps or hurts to much , he has hallow numbers.

RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5

by dubzfan on Jan 15, 2012 12:30 AM PST up reply actions  

24 points and 16 rebounds are the same whether by Lee or any other player. I don’t think you can necessarily consider numbers hollow.

by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 15, 2012 12:45 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Hollow numbers would be put up by a poor defensive player or a scorer with low efficiency. David Lee this year, Monta Ellis every year, basically.

I heard he doesn't like music.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 15, 2012 2:34 AM PST up reply actions  

The thing about Monta is that when he has to play on the ball he becomes extremely streaky

Where either he cant shoot for his life or he just takes over the game with his scoring, maybe his averages over time don’t look aweomse when you look at them a certain way but game by game you can see how vast of an effect he has on this team , but that doesn’t mean the effect isn’t always good.

What I am saying is he doesn’t have hollow numbers cause they always have an effect on the game but they are always one of the extremes (terrible or awesome)

RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5

by dubzfan on Jan 15, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

That's called being streaky.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jan 15, 2012 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Monta is generally good at home and generally garbage on the road.
I would still call a negative effect a hollow number. I would define a hollow number, which is kind of a silly term anyway, as any stat that looks good but doesn’t help you win. 25 points on 26 shots would be a great example of that and Monta seems to do that fairly often.

I heard he doesn't like music.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 15, 2012 8:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Some of the numbers do a pretty good job of it. His various +/- numbers are all between 0 and -1.

I heard he doesn't like music.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 15, 2012 2:33 AM PST up reply actions  

How many points did the guy he was guarding have?

by J-RIDAH on Jan 14, 2012 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

David carried his weight tonight. He wasn’t the reason we lost.

by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 14, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel sorry for J-RIDAH

This blog treats him like crap

Macamento

by Vinson916 on Jan 14, 2012 9:57 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

This blog treats him like crap

it’s a crap molding process but the end results are worth it

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 15, 2012 8:58 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Lee is not the problem

we can be competitive with a defensive minded Center.

When curry gets back maybe monta should come off the bench to give a HUGE change of tempo and start rush for his defense against twos. But i guess monta’s too good for that? i dunno. Sucks Kwame went down. we saw the potential of this team with a decent defender at the center position. I do not take those wins against bulls knicks and heat lightly. But its a headscratcher why the massive level of inconsistency.

by GSWeri on Jan 14, 2012 10:15 PM PST reply actions  

When curry gets back maybe monta should come off the bench

Get real that will never ever happen, Monta has played really well and benching him is like a slap to the face.

The thing is that center everyone talks about is non existent , everyone says Lee can be good with a dominant defensive center. How many of those are there? DH12 , Bynum, Chandler….. Who else? And none of them will happen. This great defensive center is a mythical being. Kwame helped but in the long run is best as a 1 on 1 defender and can’t make up for Lee’s mistakes

Lee in reality is best served as a stretch center with someone like Udoh at PF .

RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5

by dubzfan on Jan 15, 2012 12:34 AM PST up reply actions  

lol i guess your right

when your team got nobody stepping up you cant be doing that. Might as well tank. Just the same ol warriors. Different team but just finding another way to lose.

by GSWeri on Jan 15, 2012 8:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I think we’ve figured out this season that we need both Monta and Steph our there….otherwise our offense just sucks.

by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 15, 2012 12:42 AM PST up reply actions  

My problem is his contract

I wouldn’t be criticizing him at all if it weren’t for his bloated contract. But his contract is bloated, so I criticize him because he is not producing up to the level of his contract.

If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross

by doubleteapot on Jan 15, 2012 1:14 AM PST reply actions  

His contract is very reasonable

For a player at his level, unless we are talking about players at rookie contract.

Pau at $19mil, Amare at $20mil. Lee’s contractor is reasonable.

by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Jan 15, 2012 8:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Lee’s contractor is reasonable.

Well, good for Lee. We know how much NBA players like to spend on home improvement.

As far as your contract comparison: Amare at his current level of production is likely one of the worst max players in the league. Pau is one of the 4 or 5 best big men in the league, and has been the best player (or at worst second-best) on an NBA champion. Lee, once you factor in defense, is a middle-of-the-road starting NBA PF — roughly the same caliber of player as Paul Millsap, who’s making $7M a year.

As tafkasam points out above, there’s no indication there was any other team competing for Lee’s services at anywhere close to the price point we were (a pile of decent young talent plus a 6/$80M extension). I find it entirely plausible that we were bidding against ourselves and got hosed. If we could have got him for a non-escalating deal in the 5/$50M range, I think a lot of the critics of the deal would have been a lot more comfortable with it. $14M a year is a lot to pay for a skilled-but-undersized one-way player.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 15, 2012 8:47 AM PST up reply actions  

(a pile of decent young talent plus a 6/$80M extension).

This bugs me. AR’s played well this year, is only 22. Apparently he’s going to replace Darko in starting 5.

He’s one of more talented players we’ve drafted in last 10 years, and the way we gave up on his development is disgusting.

Describes RILEY in a nutshell. Trade AR for Lee, draft Udoh.

I said it in another, thread, we’re just lucky Curry is ‘fundamental, nice guy’ (read: 1970’s white america bball acceptable, cause I honestly think Riley thinks this way) AND a quality player.

by tafkasam on Jan 15, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

not saying AR will be better than DLee

But why couldnt Broken Wing be included? Giving up on AR was dumb

by tafkasam on Jan 15, 2012 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

No respect until he can play defense

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

by Evanz on Jan 15, 2012 8:52 AM PST reply actions  

Same can be said of Curry and Ellis. I suppose the only players deserving of respect are Kwame and Dom.

by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 15, 2012 9:53 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

frontcourt defense is much more important

and Curry is not as bad defensively relative to other premiere PG as David Lee is to other premiere PF. Huge difference. Ellis bad defensively, and that’s why I don’t respect his games as much as I might otherwise.

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

by Evanz on Jan 15, 2012 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Curry and Ellis, and to an extent Wright, are horrible at containing dribble penetration. There’s a reason why our bigs are often in foul trouble.

by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 15, 2012 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

that's a part of it

the other part is that Lee is a sieve

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

by Evanz on Jan 15, 2012 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Monta's defense has gotten better this year

He will never be Bowen but it has gotten better, but we are seeing some fatigue from all the 40+ minutes. We should just play Jenkins and Rush more to get Monta around 35 minutes

RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5

by dubzfan on Jan 15, 2012 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

let's get back to the original topic

DAVID LEE CAN’T PLAY DEFENSE

kthnksbye

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

by Evanz on Jan 15, 2012 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you have number which shows if he plays better defense against 4s or 5s?

Granted, that may be like numbers showing that Biedrins shoots a better FT % on the road.

Man, I don’t care nothing about no Mike Montgomery.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 15, 2012 2:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Talk to me when a PF destroys Lee this season. So far he’s kept em in check this season.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 15, 2012 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

big men who can't play help defense aren't good defenders

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

by Evanz on Jan 15, 2012 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Chuck Hayes has is a very good one on one defender, but isn’t anything special as a help defender.

by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 15, 2012 7:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I wonder how his PnR defense is. He’s a + defender overall, so I doubt that all he provides is individual post up defense. That’s not so important that you end up as a legitimately positive defensive player.

I heard he doesn't like music.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 15, 2012 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

And Kwame

RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5

by dubzfan on Jan 15, 2012 8:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Blocks aren't everything about help defense.

KG doesn’t block many shots anymore but he’s still an elite help side defender.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 16, 2012 12:08 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

off topic...

but KG is awful this year. significantly worse on both ends

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Jan 16, 2012 11:15 PM PST up reply actions  

but isn’t anything special as a help defender.

Uh, you’re wrong. I use spot-up defense as a proxy for “help defense” (there’s very little else to go on).

Chuck Hayes (2011) 0.81 PPP ranked #24
David Lee (2011) 1.0 PPP ranked #213

Care to re-think your stance?

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

by Evanz on Jan 16, 2012 5:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I think there is a misunderstanding on what help defensive is

Most people think of it as a weak side block, just an effective double team

RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5

by dubzfan on Jan 16, 2012 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

He slides well on pick and rolls

Very quick feet, and good at taking charges. He’s also adept at jumping passing lanes

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Jan 16, 2012 11:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yup.

Much improved post game and defense so far.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 17, 2012 12:55 AM PST up reply actions  

good grief. and this is why the dubs will be making their 17th appearance in the lottery out of 18 yrs. David Lee is just another Tom Gugliotta or Joe Smith or Antawn Jamison.

This team needs to stop making the 8th seed it’s goal. It’s pathetic. Get rid of all the big contracts you can move (Monta and Lee), stop overpaying marginal talent and get as many high draft picks as u can till u get a superstar u can build around.

basically play sucky young players lots of minutes to help them rack up stats so they can be the centerpiece for a trade like Al Jefferson or Eric Gordon. meanwhile, you’ll also lose more, increasing ur chances of getting a player that might actually help u contend someday.

no guarantees, but insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results — and i have had enough of this insanity.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

by the evil monkey on Jan 17, 2012 1:11 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Yep. 100% agreed.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 17, 2012 4:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I 100% disagree. Tom Gugliotta never averaged a double double in his career. Jamison only done it once, He was not close to being the passer Lee is nor was he as tough as Lee is. He only shot 50% twice in his whole career. Lee is better than Googs ever was. Joe Smith is a joke and cant be compared to Lee. If your tank for Draft picks theory worked then Minny would be in 1st place in the West right now. Besides Blake, who was the last Big man to enter the draft and make a difference in team wins? Im not for tanking so we can get the 3rd pick just so we can get a guy like Enes Kanter or Derrick Favors or James Harden or OJ Mayo.

by J-RIDAH on Jan 17, 2012 9:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Derrick Favors

you wouldn’t take a free Derrick Favors?

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 19, 2012 10:34 AM PST reply actions  

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