Why the Warriors Should Move to San Francisco
by lilboots on Jan 23, 2012 7:38 PM PST
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It is not easy to compare the Golden State Warriors to any other franchise in the league. We now stand exclusively, as the undisputed champ of historically bad franchises. The Clippers are out of the dog house. Sure, the new ownership is the most important and first step out of hell, but what else? Where do we go now?
I was born in Oakland, and live there to this day. I get goosebumps when I look up on 880 and see the Arena. I'm proud to have a team in the city where I was born and raised - a luxury not all kids get to experience.
But, I'd gladly give up the scenery on 880, swallow a bit of pride, and make the B.A.R.T. trip under the water if the Warriors emerged perennial winners and gained overall credibility as a franchise.
Why does San Francisco change the situation?
Does the average non-Californian college prospect coming into the league realize how close Oakland is to San Francisco? Does the free agent? Do they know the relevance of the San Francisco, and even the greater Bay Area?....The gold in Silicon Valley?
I've never been to New York. Even still, if you show me a post card of Newark, New Jersey, and then flash another of Manhattan, New York, I'm going to quickly tell you where I'd rather spend my time. Why wouldn't the same principle apply to a pro athlete, when comparing Oakland to San Francisco? People are people.
Clearly, it matters. Once you associate what San Francisco means in relation to the rest of the United States, and as long as it's teams (Giants, 49ers) are winning, the city of San Francisco will be synonymous with two things:
1) Premium living 2) Winning
For the outsider, what is Oakland synonymous with?
Whether or not Oakland is 5 miles from San Francisco or 500 miles, is not relevant to somebody who doesn't know any better. Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not a team is serious about winning. Joe Lacob has said he wants to win. The money he put on the table, his whispers of moving the team across the bay, and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y10F_6VQ0WY......would help the cause.
Every athlete's dream is to play on the big stage. San Francisco is a big stage. Build it, and they will come.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Get to San Francisco
get the right coach.
How did the Warriors not make a stronger push for a guy like Adelman? I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I like watching the TWolves play this year.
That’s right, this year, the Clipper and TWolves are more fun to watch than the Warriors. and they’re better in the win column too.
I’m not sure if it’s time to panic just yet, but by game 30 the front office better start showing some movement. Unfortunately, our deepest fears have been realized, and that is to have a coach captaining this ship that doesn’t know how to get us there. And he’s locked-in for the foreseeable future.
I like our chances of making it to The City, but how do we get out of this coaching mess?
Yes it is....but then why panic over something that is expected.
I’m not sure if it’s time to panic just yet,
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 24, 2012 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Does the average non-Californian college prospect coming into the league realize how close Oakland is to San Francisco?
If they are smart enough to play for us they can read maps. Truth is the city is declining and oakland increasing in importance. Look at the shipping reports if you don’t believe me. Only thing left in the city is the mind games, all the industry and energy has moved east.
If you want more shallow fans and expensive seats move to
SF but if you want true fans stay in oakland and worry about the play.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 24, 2012 9:30 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
True fans will go to the games no matter what city they are from. I’m a 49er’s season ticket holder and I can’t wait for them to move to Santa Clara (No pun intended but Candlestick is a crappy stadium and I live a short walk from it). I also share Warriors season tickets with a friend and that guy lives in Roseville.
by mrorangesoda on Jan 24, 2012 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
Does the average non-Californian college prospect coming into the league realize how close Oakland is to San Francisco?
College prospect? No. NBA free agent? Yes, for the simple reason that they have to play in Oakland once or twice a year every year of their career.
by Missing Barry on Jan 24, 2012 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
They also all stay in hotels in SF
Incase they were still unsure.
Saw Hibbert getting off the bus last week. Confirmed: He’s tall
And I always thought that you were smart with a looney act Skep ;-p
Truth is the city is declining and oakland increasing in importance. Look at the shipping reports if you don’t believe me.
This sounds like ya just plain looney…can I get sum o dat toot der pardna…
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 24, 2012 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Since when do...
Shipping reports determine importance. Oakland will never be as important or as big of a draw as San Francisco.
Moving to San Francisco isn’t about having true fans. True fans will go no matter where the team is. Moving to San Francisco is about making more money and getting the team to appeal to other players. Oakland appeals to absolutely NO ONE. San Francisco is where the money is and where the Warriors should play their home games.
Fact is Oakland will never be as important as San Francisco. Never have the money San Francisco has. Never have the appeal San Francisco has. And until the warriors realize this, no one like a Dwight Howard or Chris Paul will ever put the Golden State Warriors on their wanted destination lists
Since when do...Shipping reports determine importance.
since china has become our industrial belt. you can sit over there sippin white whine and soft cheese but if we don’t get hard products into the country we are all gonna fall. I’ll pick a container port over pier 39 any day.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
so by that logic...
since oakland is where the “hard products” come through that makes it the second most important city in california next to LA. And if thats how u feel u r probably the only one in the entire country.
where the products come in through doesnt matter unless ur performing a siege on the country. Seein that we r trying to build a winning basketball team we should move the team to san francisco because that will increase revenue and attract high profile free agents. I dont think dwight cares which city has the bigger port
I dont think dwight cares which city has the bigger port
Dwight needs an education then, don’t facilitate his ignorance.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
Dwight needs an education
Along with the rest of most NBA players
But either way, I dont think anyone is going to play for the city with the biggest port. They r going to play for the team offering the most money in the best possible city. San Francisco will help generate more revenue to pay these marquee players and San Francisco is a more desirable city to play in than Oakland.
San Francisco is a more desirable city to play in than Oakland.
haha, I guess it’s a matter of taste. I’d rather play with a backdrop of container cranes than ding-dong trolleys.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Matter of taste?
u have horrible taste if u rather play with a backdrop of container cranes. but i guess when u go up for a lay up u find satisfaction in knowing that oakland has a great port.
but i guess when u go up for a lay up u find satisfaction in knowing that oakland has a great port.
yeah, real necessities coming in mean we got cheap shoes for the kids to wear to school and some chinese worker has food on his table while ding-a -ling trolleys just mean some bored tourist is moving from one view to another.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
ding-a-ling trolleys
tourism is one of the main sources of revenue for the bay area as a whole. tourism pumps a whole lot of money into our economy. much more than the outsourcing of shoe making to china. but thats not the argument.
move the warriors to san francisco, and the warriors will see an increase in revenue due to popularity and marquee players will now consider coming to the warriors.
or u can keep the warriors in oakland. keep the ticket prices low. continue our 20 year rebuilding project for another year. and continue to watch the warriors remain a lottery team for ur lifetime
i know what u want. the cheap seats and the mediocre bball team
i want to see the warriors win along with the rest of warrior nation
by NMRyan007 on Jan 26, 2012 7:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
move the warriors to san francisco, and the warriors will see an increase in revenue due to popularity
how they gonna get any more popular than they are, they sell out almost every game? SF is not a big basketball city, those folks got other things on their mind.
So you spend a billion on a new arena then you gotta pay that all off before you get back to where you are now on the expenses. The only thing that changes is you’ll get more soft fans sitting in more expensive seats playing with their Iphones and wondering where they are gonna go after the game.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
tourism pumps a whole lot of money into our economy. much more than the outsourcing of shoe making to china.
shoe making creates hard product from labor and resources while tourism largely trades service for service, with only a small portion being hard product. The valuable part of tourism is the product created and consumed to facilitate it, the service it’s self creates no new hard product. Imagine a society that is based on everyone massaging everyone else and you’ll understand the drawback of tourism as your basic industry. Imports don’t create jobs here but they do create hard product somewhere which is better than nowhwere. Now look at oakland in the light of facilitating the making something tangible and it looks a lot better.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
hahahahah
if u look at oakland and think of all the products it helps china facilitate in making ur worse than i thought. especially if thats ur reason for oakland being more important than san francisco and if thats the case ur an idiot.
the move to sf isnt about the fans. its a move to a bigger market. san francisco is a much larger market. it will attract people from all over the bay. and before u say that oakland is just as accessible from the south bay there is a reason that everyone from the south bay are fans of the niners/giants and not the raiders/a’s. when was the last time that any oakland team attracted a big time free agent? when was the last time a free agent said “i want to play in oakland”? Never. San Francisco is the draw those players need
And oakland isnt a big basketball city either. the bay area as a whole is a big basketball area so why not have the warriors play in the epicenter of the bay?
so why not have the warriors play in the epicenter of the bay?
You need to take a good look at a map of the bay area, the epicenter is a lot closer to oakland than to SF which lays on the western fringe.
I live way south in the area and just about everyone I know is a raiders/ A’s fan going back to the days of Stabler/Bilitnikoff and Reggie jackson/Catfish Hunter. so don’t over rate the attraction of the 49ers and giants to the south bay.
Learn a bit about where products come from and how they are made and their relationship to the creation of tangible wellbeing then you’ll understand the importance of a container port compared to a tourist wharf.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 27, 2012 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
Tangible well being?
what is that exactly? i think its something u have made up. tried looking it up and couldnt find anything
but i do know that a port has absolutely nothing to do with well being and nothing to do with basketball. ppl rnt going to come play here cuz thats where their shoes are coming in from china. i want to see competitive basketball and from everything u have posted i dont think u do. u want to keep with the status quo as long as all the rich people stay away and u continue getting ur tickets for cheap
but i do know that a port has absolutely nothing to do with well being
run it by someone who knows economics and see how much $ they tell you the port adds to the local economy?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 27, 2012 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
you sound like a transient or short time resident of the area
the current owners of the A’s have made their intentions to vacate oaktown obvious and they’ve reduced the team to a 4A equivalent, so judging them based on recent history is misleading. When Al Davis opened his checque book, the $$ combined with the mystique he created around the team and its history made the team very attractive for players. after he died, two of the most respected people in the sport, Wolf and Madden, made sure that the son had all the resources he needed to continue.
the east bay has produced n.b.a. players from its high schools and playgrounds going back many decades ; Bill Russell won his NCAA championships in USF but his school ball was in oaktown, and maybe you’ve heard of the guy who coaches Charlotte at present, or of Payton, Kidd — but you think ‘oakland isn’t a big basketball city’ ?
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
by the.monk on Jan 27, 2012 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't have to give reasons why
They are definitely going to bring the team to SF.
During the TNT game against the Magic, in-n-out of commercial breaks, they normally show a landscape of the city accompanied by a line and the name. They repeatedly showed “San Francisco, CA.” I didn’t see Oakland once.
Also, in one of Joe’s interviews when they first bought the team, he was talking about how great the city was they were in…the interview was in SF.
by disguy on Jan 24, 2012 9:32 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
They did this during Raider games for decades
It was just a few years or so ago that they started showing Jack London Square and Lake Merritt instead of the Golden Gate Bridge and Coit Tower and whatever else they could find in the city.
Here's An Outsider Opinion
A life-long Seattle resident, and a former SuperSonics season ticket holder, when they left I became a Warrior fan for geographic reasons (not cheering for the TrailBlazers, they were our rival and their fans are pricks, plus Portland sucks; and who wants to cheer for Sacramento anyway?). My first season as a Warriors fan I purchased a 10-game ticket package knowing I wouldn’t make the majority of the games, but wanting to support the team regardless. That season was 2009-2010, and I have renewed my ticket package each season since.
Since then I’ve seen or listened to nearly all Warriors games, and have been on GSoM now for some time. The feel that I get from the team is that it doesn’t matter where they play, they seem like the Bay Area’s team rather than just Oakland’s. Traffic backs up post game in both directions of 880 and both bridges see higher volumes crossing too— everyone from every direction seems to go to the games.
I have no problem with the team moving to San Francisco, as a fan who only has the opportunity to attend a few games a season and has to pay quite a bit of money to watch them outside of their market, I especially don’t want to see losses. I don’t know whether or not the team’s “We Believe” year was the result of an anomaly or if it really was that good of a team; but we need to get back there before we worry about getting back to “The City.” I know the purpose of moving to SF is to attract talent, and it’s hard to get to the playoffs without talent— but just one question out of a million to be answered; where do they plan on playing? In Daly City, again?
Feel free to lambaste me, as I don’t know as much about the Bay Area as it’s residents, but I feel like a pretty dedicated Warriors’ fan who drives twelve hours one way, or flies two to see games, and wanted to drop in my two cents.
-pax
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DWright? Who's DWright? I know a DDub, but no DWright.
"We're not one of the top teams in the West... We can't come in with the idea that these are winnable games." - Keith Smart; 2/27/11
I imagine the plan would be to build a stadium out near AT&T. At least the first option…
by Missing Barry on Jan 24, 2012 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Where?
Somewhere down Berry St? That entire area is already developed, isn’t it? It’s always smart to build stadiums next to each other to utilize the resources (parking, bars, etc) for more than one event; but there isn’t a ton of room available in that area, is there?
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DWright? Who's DWright? I know a DDub, but no DWright.
"We're not one of the top teams in the West... We can't come in with the idea that these are winnable games." - Keith Smart; 2/27/11
I assumed that it would where the parking is for AT&T with added parking structures.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 25, 2012 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
this
it would be back in the parking lot (probably require some sort of additional (maybe underground) parking…but it’s certainly possible
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 25, 2012 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
Seattle desearves a team...
not cheering for the TrailBlazers, they were our rival and their fans are pricks, plus Portland sucks; and who wants to cheer for Sacramento anyway
Goes into my GSOM great quote file….but may have to creat a new sub folder file for this one…
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 24, 2012 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe
I’m not afraid to admit that the team didn’t leave just because Clay Bennett and David Stern wanted out of Washington State; we didn’t sell tickets up here, at all. The only games we sold out the last three seasons were when LeBron was here, or when Boston was here in the final season. When the Trailblazers came it was akin to when the Lakers come to Oracle— except it was about 60% Blazers fans instead of 40% Laker fans.
People will swear up and down that they went to games here, but they didn’t.
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DWright? Who's DWright? I know a DDub, but no DWright.
"We're not one of the top teams in the West... We can't come in with the idea that these are winnable games." - Keith Smart; 2/27/11
Probably because....
Seattle made the mistake of not building a subway as well…most fans live north of the city but donot want to drive down that crowded freeway then thru the city and park.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 25, 2012 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
most fans live north of the city but donot want to drive down that crowded freeway then thru the city and park.
didn’t they have their own version of Oakland to put it in a convenient location?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 25, 2012 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
they do
but Microsoft owns it
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 25, 2012 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
Which part of the Puget Sound are we talking about?
Building an arena on the east side (Bellevue, Redmond, Renton) would be the equivalent of building an arena in Marin or Fremont… you’d really be isolating the location from a lot of the population
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DWright? Who's DWright? I know a DDub, but no DWright.
"We're not one of the top teams in the West... We can't come in with the idea that these are winnable games." - Keith Smart; 2/27/11
Redmond
but FWIW, I kinda liked the old location just fine
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 26, 2012 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
Our Oakland equivalent
Would be Tacoma, where the Sonics played when the KeyArena was being rebuilt in the early nineties (the Tacoma Dome can actually seat nearly 2x what the KeyArena can, it’s where Jay-Z, and all the big name shows go when they come here). Tacoma has similar crime & income statistics to Richmond, though.
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DWright? Who's DWright? I know a DDub, but no DWright.
"We're not one of the top teams in the West... We can't come in with the idea that these are winnable games." - Keith Smart; 2/27/11
Public Transit here sucks, yeah
But I don’t necessarily know that the “most fans live north of the city” is true.
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DWright? Who's DWright? I know a DDub, but no DWright.
"We're not one of the top teams in the West... We can't come in with the idea that these are winnable games." - Keith Smart; 2/27/11
I went to one game
true story
it was pretty empty
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 25, 2012 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
we're lucky to have a dedicated fan like you here
thanks for your perspective on the league abandoning Seattle — that was a travesty, and the Sonics had a great history, sharing the legacy of Dick Vertlieb with the greatest rosters in GS’s history.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
I think the team should move.
Metrics about what’s going on where aren’t the issue – rather, psychology matters.
“San Francisco” feels like the center of things in northern california. “Oakland” feels like a backwater.
A player or a fan should be able to go from the game to a variety of nice, upscale bars and restaurants (or to the game from them). Quite simply: is Oakland, given the Oracle’s location, that’s just impossible. It’s not going to happen in any sort of reasonable timeframe. A 25-30 minute drive to get into the city (assuming traffick isn’t bad) combined with parking, etc, whatever … it just isn’t going to get it done. People will go home instead.
L.A. Live, the area built around the staples center, is the model. Everything you could want for you pre- and post-game needs is within easy walking distance.
If somebody can demonstrate how to do that at the Oracle, that’s one thing. But I don’t think they can.
"San Francisco" feels like the center of things in northern california. "Oakland" feels like a backwater.
guess it depends on your values. I value the working man more than the glam. I go to games for the games not for the food or drink. When I go for food and drink I go to food and drink for the food or drink not for games. The important thing to me is a hard nosed team and cheapest tickets possible. The less “upscale” fans I see there the more I enjoy it. I look at a new arena as an excuse not a solution.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 24, 2012 1:39 PM PST reply actions 9 recs
The objective of a new arena isn’t to appease fans. It’s about doing everything you can to win. At the end of the day, I’d rather just have a winning basketball team a few more miles away. When I spend my hard earned cash on a game ticket, I don’t want to see trash.
You have to do everything you can to attract the right kind of players. Lacob needs to gain that Cubanesque reputation as an owner who spends money on his team.
The important thing to me is a hard nosed team and cheapest tickets possible.
Who is this hard-nosed team you speak of? I haven’t seen a one in my time here.
I value the working man more than the glam.
You’re right. There are no working men in San Francisco. And building an arena there prohibits any working men from attending games.
The less "upscale" fans I see there the more I enjoy it. I look at a new arena as an excuse not a solution.
What makes a fan “upscale”? ….A red winter scarf? Some white lady who covers her babe’s ear every time you say “hella”? Someone who doesn’t look you in the eye when they talk to you? Turtlenecks?…Huey Lewis and the News?
It doesn’t matter. I go to games to watch the games. I don’t go to socialize with the fanbase and develop judgments about their personal lives. That’s coming from a working man from Oakland who’s never missed a game the past 10 years.
by lilboots on Jan 24, 2012 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
allow me
What makes a fan "upscale"?
-A red winter scarf? possibly
-Some white lady who covers her babe’s ear every time you say "hella"? definitely
-Someone who doesn’t look you in the eye when they talk to you? unknown, depends on what I’m wearing
-Turtlenecks? probably
-Huey Lewis and the News? no way, total working class music
; )
for my 2 cents, I wouldn’t mind more options within walking distance of the game, but at this point in my life, am more concerned about the fact that Oracle is only 15 minutes door-to-door for me
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 24, 2012 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The problem has never been the fans.
I walk to the games.
Bay Area basketball fans are the best. Oakland…San Francisco…In a box…..with a fox… it doesn’t matter. We will show up.
I just want a winning team, man. It isn’t the 70’s anymore…And I gotta say, I’m starting to get the sneaking suspicion that the arena is cursed. Injuries, draft picks, name it.
I’m not saying San Francisco is some squeaky clean city where nothing bad happens. The media does a good job of not publicizing that kind of stuff, while making Oakland sound like it’s the wild, wild west.
It’s all about image. Yes, it’s a player’s league. The NBA isn’t a pool of Harvard grads, boasting to be the next Socrates. These are ordinary, young men who care just as much about image as the next 20-30 yr. old American.
If you create a basketball oasis and build a movement, people are going to want in. Look at “We Believe” all the way to Japan.
Let Peter Guber earn his keep. Allow Joe Lacob to venture into those deep pockets and pay the ultimate price.
If he claims that he can turn the Warriors into winners, then I say he owes us ALL.
Call his bluff. Bold men make bold statements, and events are the teachers of fools.
by lilboots on Jan 24, 2012 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Look at "We Believe" all the way to Japan.
and it didn’t need a foo-foo new arena in a tourist based area to do it, it just needed a scrappy band of brothers with hope in their hearts.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 24, 2012 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
Bay Area basketball fans are the best. Oakland…San Francisco…In a box…..with a fox… it doesn’t matter. We will show up.
I cannot tell you how true this is. After going to every Sonics home game for three straight seasons up until the team left, being a part of a fanbase that isn’t fairweather gets me excited to go to games in and of itself.
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DWright? Who's DWright? I know a DDub, but no DWright.
"We're not one of the top teams in the West... We can't come in with the idea that these are winnable games." - Keith Smart; 2/27/11
"If you build it, they will come."
I believe this statement supports your foxes and boxes analogy.
by kicksmcgee on Feb 2, 2012 1:20 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
You’re in the minority. As admirable as your fandom is, it doesn’t make the Warriors more money.
by Doctor Kajita on Jan 25, 2012 12:07 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Rec'd Skep
For most working people during the week they have to work the next day and are not looking to drink after the games. The move would be great for the SF economically but would it be harder for fans who live east side north and south of the city to drive to ? Would love to see the analysis of this.
I love the relationship of the city to AT&T so from that angle it does seem great….at the moment I do not believe that many associate Oracle as a “Oakland” location….it just seems more like a stadium on the freeway…
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 25, 2012 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
….at the moment I do not believe that many associate Oracle as a "Oakland" location….it just seems more like a stadium on the freeway…
that’s true, it’s a central location easy to get to from all directions. A SF arena would be a lot less convenient for most of us and would draw a different type of fan, more money to spend and less real interest in the game and more in the idea of being there cause it’s the hot ticket.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 25, 2012 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
A SF arena would be a lot less convenient for most of us and would draw a different type of fan, more money to spend and less real interest in the game and more in the idea of being there cause it’s the hot ticket.
Does this describe what the Giants did by moving from Candlestick to AT&T? If so, should the Warriors replicate it? Further to the point. Should the Warriors be treated like the Giants by San Francisco essentially asking for the team to pay the large majority of the stadium cost in exchange for land, tax breaks, etc?
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
Does this describe what the Giants did by moving from Candlestick to AT&T? If so, should the Warriors replicate it?
Definitely not, candlestick had the potential to be the ultimate home field advantage, the giants should have embraced it and created a hell hole for the opposition so they folded before they got off the bus. What’s the price difference for a ticket at pac bell stadium compared to what it woulda been at the stick now? I bet it’s a lot more to pay for less interesting baseball? I’d rather watch the swirling winds intimidate the opposing pitchers than have a giant stuffed glove and coke bottle on the fence.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 25, 2012 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Classic Skeptic
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
not a good parallel
the Stick is NOT in a good spot, Oracle is actually pretty convenient to get to from a lot of different directions
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 25, 2012 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
Wrong again
AT&T is one of the easiest places to get to. U can get there using cal trains, muni, bart, or the freeway. Its just off of the Bay Bridge.
An SF arena would be much more convenient
Don't forget the ferry!
No relation to Matt Cain...
by Caine Black Knife on Jan 26, 2012 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Well, you're missing my point:
My point is that if you want the team to be competitive, you need to find ways to raise more revenue … and you need to make the team more attractive to players.
J-Ridah keeps saying how players aren’t interested in coming here, and unfortunately I think he’s right about part of the reason. The Oracle is not an interesting place for players. Compare to MSG or the Fleet Center – right in the middle of a busy downtown.
I agree it’d be less convenient for a lot of local fans. No question. But that’s not what it’s about. It’s about creating an event, a vibe, a spectacle. It’s about making the Warriors hip.
That being said, I find the snobbery inherent in a comment like:
The less "upscale" fans I see there the more I enjoy it.
to be pretty offputting. What, so rich people don’t enjoy are bad for basketball because they’re rich?
the players don't give a damn
about the location of the arena—they only care about their contract and playing ball. they can live or go anywhere they want after a game or practice.
It’s about creating an event, a vibe, a spectacle. It’s about making the Warriors hip.
if you want manufactured hip then go to katie perry concerts. I want to go to basketball games for the basketball. “Hip”(unless it’s on cheerleaders) is not in my top 10 list of things I want from a game. and if being non hip can drive away the weak fans so much the better. It’s not that their being rich is the problem it’s how they use the money to displace more sincere fans who can’t afford the pricier tickets. The more decadent the area the more shallow upscale fans show up and the further it gets from the streets where the real love of the game develops.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 25, 2012 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
Stop with "i want to go to basketball game for the basketball"
Because for the past 20 yrs and counting the warriors have played some of the worst basketball in the NBA (minus two seasons). I don’t know how u can pretend to enjoy it. Moving to sf would improve the image of the Golden State Warriors for everyone on the outside looking in. Would make it an attractive place to play basketball. Would bring in more revenue to spend on coaches, players, luxury taxes, etc. Just makes all the basketball/economical sense in the world for the Warriors. SF could careless about having the warriors in SF. It wont make them that much more money.
A move to SF would make the warriors a better franchise for years to come
by NMRyan007 on Jan 26, 2012 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Moving to sf would improve the image of the Golden State Warriors for everyone on the outside looking in. Would make it an attractive place to play
If you care about “attractiveness” and what outsiders think then that’s your problem but it has nothing to do with winning ball. The A’s won the world series 3 times playing in Oakland and the Raiders were the winning-est team in the 70’s. Have some pride in your Oaktown and just say no. If the arena needs updating fix it but no need to throw out the baby with the bath water. All Lacob wants is more profit and a new arena will allow him to boost ticket prices even more out of reach of the middle class so the game becomes a circus of the rich class watching the lucky few of the poor entertain them. If Lacob says he can build a new arena and lower ticket costs then I’ll go where ever it is but if not then no, tickets are already too expensive for most fans.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
that was the70s
When was the last time the A’s won a world series? When was the last time the Raiders won a super bowl?
this is a new era where money drives everything. NBA is a league that constantly loses money and is usually a poor investment (for the owners). U r too concerned about ticket pricing instead of what will be good for the team. So if u wanna go see games go watch the D-League, but if u wanna see a team that u support maybe win a few games in ur lifetime, move the team to SF.
by NMRyan007 on Jan 26, 2012 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
because you're a "tough guy"
Love and passion for the game can come from anywhere. Its an international sport. You’re making it sound like the B.A. Basketball fan can only be represented by someone who makes under 40k and plays ball every weekend at mosswood park.
“Band of brothers, gritty, tough” vs. “Upscale, weak fans.” You serious?
You remind me of someone who’s lived in neither city. If you have, you’d know more about cultures. You think every fan in Oakland knows who Jeremy Tyler is? Or that you only have 5 seconds to inbound the ball?
The bottom line is that the more money the team brings in, it gives Joe Lacob (an “upscale” fan who cares more about the team than you), more to work with to make them a better organization, overall.
because you're a "tough guy" ?
haha, can’t help that but it has nothing to do with it. I’m also compassionate and want the average fan to be able to afford games and not be priced out of a new arena by slummin 1%‘ers. I got no sympathy for those who say they can’t enjoy ball at oracle cause they need more “stuff” , I could enjoy it with less “stuff” and I’m sure lots of folks feel the same way and are just grateful to be able to go to a game occasionally.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I agree with that. I don’t really think many people go to the games for the perks anyway. I think they want to watch a game, just like you. I used to buy the cheapest seat in the house and then eyeball a seat with the binoculars. Move on down once halftime comes around.
This isn’t about those jokers running around in orange jump suits or 8 dollar t-shirts with COMCAST across the back, parachuting from the rafters.
My whole point was that I LIKE going to oracle arena. I would like it more than any kind of stadium they build in SF. I have tons of memories here, and I go to games every year.
Again, its not about me, or the fans. They will show up regardless. Its about gaining credibility for the team. Don’t you understand that?
its a difference in perspectives
I don’t go to too many games. I watch themfrom my couch or on my computer. When I do its cuz i get free tickets or buy the cheap seats. But i would willingly splurge and spend the extra 20 bucks when i do go to see a competitive team and be proud of my team because they r good.
clearly u r satisfied with a crappy team as long as the tickets rnt priced too high and u can go to the game. and if thats how most warrior fans feel then we have already lost
Compare to MSG or the Fleet Center – right in the middle of a busy downtown.
Would building an arena SE of AT&T still be considered building in the middle of a busy downtown. I would argue that it wouldn’t be. That being said the Mission Bay area is under going a huge transition with UCSF set to finish most of it construction by 2015 and Saleforce due to relocate there as well. I’m not saying it’s a strike against moving to SF. But if players “feel” a like of vibe now, what’s to say an arena surrounded by a university and an business’s enterprise campus would be any better.
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
Oracle has nothing to do with the reason players dont wanna come here. J-Ridah never said that. We know why I think they dont wanna come here. I dont see any way a new arena would generate more energy than Oracle has. The Lakers dont have it and they play in the best arena in the league. Skep got this 1 right.
U must also like watching the Warriors lose
it’s either that or blind myself.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
I find people who talk about themselves in the third person sooo sexy
by john13holmes on Feb 2, 2012 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
If they move
to San Fransisco I hope they keep the Golden State name!
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
Biggest GSW fan in NY!
Twitter: @GSWarrior9
..............SC30..............
are you kidding me?
That is the worst thing about the team IMO. If you go anywhere outside of the Bay Area, people have no idea where the GSW play. Some people think it’s a college team because of the “State”. I would much rather have a city name on the team.
by Billy Frijoles on Jan 26, 2012 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
Some people think it’s a college team because of the "State"
If that is true those people have no business watching professional sports
RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5
"No difference maker in this draft taf. Sorry to be the 1 to break it to you." J-Ridah 1/23/12
by dubzfan on Jan 26, 2012 10:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The Warriors are the most irrelevant team in the NBA, unfortunately
In the sense that they never win, so they rarely have any footprint on a national scale. NBA junkies like us of course know where the Warriors are from, but I am telling you the casual sports fan in other parts of the country knows very little about our team.
There are a lot of sports fans who don’t really watch much nba until the playoffs, hence they never ever see the Warriors. I mean since 1980 the team has been simply atrocious.
by Billy Frijoles on Jan 27, 2012 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
I am telling you the casual sports fan in other parts of the country knows very little about our team.
why should we change our name to make it easier for some casual sports fan to remember us on the other side of the country? We don’t worry about what they call their teams over there so why should we worry about what they think about our team name?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 27, 2012 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Just saying that it is a confusingly poor name.
Either way I always hated the Golden State thing. It’s b.s. Golden state is not a place, it looks bush league. If that’s supposed to stand for CA 3 other teams play here so it doesn’t really say much. I would be really happy if they got rid of it.
Oakland or SF would be much better and look a hell of a lot better on jerseys.
by Billy Frijoles on Jan 27, 2012 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
also I think a name should represent an area and I don't know anyone that calls the bay area the golden state.
by Billy Frijoles on Jan 27, 2012 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
I think a name should represent an area and I don't know anyone that calls the bay area the golden state.
Haha, check out the header of this blog if you don’t know where Golden State is. Golden state is like jazz I guess, if you have to ask you won’t understand it?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 27, 2012 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind a change to the Bay Area Warriors….
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yes!
this would be awesome!
way more relevant
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 31, 2012 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
I like Golden State. It’s unique. Lots of other teams have vague locations, too – teams like Minnesota, Indiana, New Jersey, Utah (that’s all of them, so maybe not lots, but there are others)…
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2012 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
none of those teams have other teams in the same state.
by Billy Frijoles on Jan 27, 2012 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
So? The Texas Rangers do. New York Yankees and New York Mets (though I suppose New York is ALSO the name of the city, but they don’t have “city” in their name), Florida Marlins…New England sports a name of a region where half the fans root for NY teams….
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
new everything
new arena, new players,
hit the restart button.
Think the real point is...
Whether or not Oakland is 5 miles from San Francisco or 500 miles, is not relevant to somebody who doesn’t know any better. Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not a team is serious about winning
Which is way arguing for moving to SF just for sake of “winning” does not make sense.
Scenario #1: You build a new arena and you line up more corporate $$$ in luxury boxes, adjoining restaurants and other business tied to the arena, and higher ticket prices. That brings in more venue that you can spend on perks an amenities for the players.
Does scenario #1 work? Yes and No… Dallas is clearly an example where is worked. But the stadium and money spent didn’t automatically make them contenders. Heck, look at the Knicks they still suck despite being one of the highest venue generating teams in the league.
Scenario #2 You build the stadium, and invest in all the money in scouting, front office, medical staff, etc and see if you can build a champion.
Does scenario #2 work? Again yes and no. It sure seems to have worked for OKC (man it kills me to say that). Then again, team like the Suns seems to be stinking up the joint this season despite having the best medical staff in the league.
Scenario #3: Cross your fingers and hope to the winning the lottery to land a transcendent player. Now his is how I believe you get things done. You get lucky. You know you end up with Cousins at #5 instead of Udoh at #6. You end up with Griffin instead of Curry. I can go on and on.
Does scenario #3 work? Of course it does. It basically made San Antonio by landing them Robinson and Duncan. It helped push the Orlando Magic to the finals with Shaq and Penny.
My point is that moving the Warriors to San Francisco isn’t going to change their luck. It isn’t to make up for front office mistakes like D. Lee or insisting on playing Ellis and Curry together for 30+ mins a night. Sure it may be a great for bring in more revenue, but so far that’s the only thing I bank on getting from the move.
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
Well, look at it this way:
You just laid out three possible paths to getting better.
One of them, we agree, is basically luck. New stadium can help with that.
The other two don’t NECESSARILY work, but as you point out, they CAN.
So isn’t that an argument for a new stadium?
“If we have more revenue, we have this extra advantage which might help us,” is not undone by the fact that success isn’t guaranteed. Nobody’s saying a new stadium guarantees anything. But as has been pointed out, winning the lottery doesn’t get you a transcendent player unless you’re lucky enough to win the lottery in the right year. Lots of teams have won the lottery (including the Warriors) and not seen their franchise turn around. By your logic “yes and no” we shouldn’t try to win the lottery because we’ve all seen how teams can win the lottery and still suck.
by Ronaldinho on Jan 25, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Thanks for the breakdown. As stated, I don’t see the stadium a driving force to change our luck. However, it’s not like it would hurt our luck either.
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
Oklahoma City -- exactly
star players like playing there because they win, and have a well run, stable front office and coaching. doubtful that the town has many advantages in itself over oaktown. as a temporary home during the season, for a lot of players who are from anywhere east of the Rockies (probably seventy pct. or more of all the players) Oklahoma City is more convenient than anywhere on the west coast.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
Move the Team to SF; leave the Players behind!
haha, I like that idea. Leave the keys to oracle and let’s see if the street pimps of oakland can manage the team better than the current crew( my money’s on the homeboys as they grew up watchin bb at the park)
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 25, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
or...just put Billy Beane in charge
honestly, I bet he could figure it out faster than our current brain trust
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 25, 2012 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
I see the move to SF the next logical step into upgrading your business
I would have no problem taking my girl to the city for dinner and a game.
by Xtremelink on Jan 25, 2012 12:24 AM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree
But then again I live in the city
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
As someone who has to travel into town for games
I always stay at the same hotel in SF, and would appreciate not having to drive/sit in traffic/pay bridge tolls, etc for games.
--------------------------------------------
DWright? Who's DWright? I know a DDub, but no DWright.
"We're not one of the top teams in the West... We can't come in with the idea that these are winnable games." - Keith Smart; 2/27/11
try BART dude
it’s really not that bad, especially if it is convenient from your hotel
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 26, 2012 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Where would we get the money for a new stadium?
I mean, come on.. The Niners want a new stadium, the A’s and Raiders could probably use a new stadium, virtually any franchise wants a new arena to play in. But realistically, these undertakings are incredibly hard to pull off. With zoning law, so much area already developed, construction costs, city ordinances, tax payer money, and everything else.. there’s so much at stake.
A move to SF would mean I get to go to less games, but without that bias, I think logistically and financially there is little upside—especially in attracting talent as OP was suggesting.
I don't think people realize that moving to SF would be a monumental achievment
It will change the franchise.
And I also don’t think people realize that just because they want to move to SF doesn’t mean they can make it happen so easily. It will take a lot of money. They’re going to have to get loans on top of their existing loans.
I think they can make it happen, just because, but it’s a major development project and will cost a lot of time and money.
yeah, we are talking about something way down the road
Joe Lacob and Peter Guber are considering a spot for their team just south of AT&T Park. Ideally, they would like to see the facility open before the 2017 season, when the Oakland lease runs out.
I’m not so sure that going away from Oracle isn’t already a foregone conclusion
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 25, 2012 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
right, and
I thought they already had corporate money lined up for the arena in SF. I remember watching an interview with Ed Lee or someone from SF govt. and they said there would be no increased taxes needed to pay for anything.
And I do believe it is a foregone conclusion. I think the new owners came in with the plan to move the team to SF but they were not going to go public with it right off the bat.
It wont change the franchise 1 bit. No free agent is gonna say “Damn im signing with the Warriors because they play in San Fran”. If you think the average NBA player is impressed by San Francisco I have some oceanfront property in Nevada for sale.
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
by Doctor Kajita on Jan 27, 2012 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
THAT'S FINE W/ KENNY SEAGLE
ahoy there mateys….
it’s boon 4 house seagle 4 it puts games across town 4 los inhabitantes
plus there aint no place 2 go 2 after gms @ oracle
unless ur after game fare o’ choice = slim jims & red bull @ the union 76
ANY QUESTIONS???
Spend that same money in Oakland
If they were in Frisco it would be just another SF attraction but in Oakland there are no detractors. They could spend less money developing the area immediately surrounding it. It makes sense it is right next to the airport. The last thing I seen built out that way was a walmart/panda/in&out strip mall the next exit up. There is a big parcel of land thats connected to the coliseum lot and abandoned as far as I can tell. People walk through to get to PaknSave while tailgating the Raider games as well as other parcels. My point is that the land and opportunity is there and why shoe horn something else into Frisco when the Town doesnt have to die. Maybe Im partial because Ive lived there but believe me Oakland is a beautiful place. Ive traveled the country and been blessed to go to arenas and see other NBA cities and amenities close up. The majority are not blowing us away (although denver has an amusement park next door to Mile High/Coors Field/Pepsi Center, cool set up).
I just think that instead of killing the city we are in or the coach or ownership or front office we need to get on these players for blowing leads and turning over the rock. Lacob is cutting checks and Coach is calling plays. The whole franchise is in a transition of culture and new digs would be sweet but I hardly think that buying a new rafter to hang it would bring a banner
"Show no mercy... for your greatness will silence them all"
by TheUltimateGSWARRIOR on Jan 25, 2012 10:18 PM PST reply actions
You're out of luck
Jean Quan is the mayor of Oakland.
by Doctor Kajita on Jan 26, 2012 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
Its not about more prestige, lets talk real here for a minute. The real reason ppl want to move the team to SF because they are scared s___tless of coming to Oakland where all those “Thugs and Criminals are” and feel much safer in San Francisco. Nobody wants to admit it tho.
Build it on Alcatraz
lets talk real here for a minute. The real reason ppl want to move the team to SF because they are scared s___tless of coming to Oakland where all those "Thugs and Criminals are" and feel much safer in San Francisco.
Not really. I worked for the Warriors in tickets the year we acquired Baron Davis. I ran into dozens of the same kind of snobs you’ve been describing above, every game. We suffer fools of all kind. In the end, it’s the same aggravating result regardless of status.
Most adults living in the Bay Area have been to Oakland. They find out quickly that it’s a nice city.
Not everybody from San Francisco is yuppie scum. Go have a little nap at the bus stop on Earl St. in Hunter’s Point at 11 pm and wear your Sunday’s best. Whoever wakes you up, it won’t be the swishy fellow working the make-up booth at SAK’s 5th Avenue.
Do you really think Joe Lacob is the kind of guy to exclude the majority of the fanbase? He was a sports fan a long time before he was a millionaire. He’s also smart enough to understand the dynamics of his fanbase. He won’t allow it to become some republican block party sponsored by the Third Reich. Don’t worry.
If you fear the frat-d*ck with a purchased degree who listens to Coldplay while secretly humming white supremacy ballets as his item applies her $500 dollar lip stick in the neighboring room, you are not alone.
But stop your worrying. Just take the extra 8 minutes on BART and enjoy the game. No one’s asking you to kiss the soil and wave a flag. I never, ever drive to SF.
It wont change the franchise 1 bit. No free agent is gonna say "Damn im signing with the Warriors because they play in San Fran". If you think the average NBA player is impressed by San Francisco I have some oceanfront property in Nevada for sale.
No one is saying that. It’s about doing what you can to shake a HORRIBLE reputation. A new arena to me, sounds like the kind of ownership who’s gonna pay me when I play right. That’s why people like Floyd Mayweather have an entourage. They know it’s going to rain.
If you have an owner blowing gold all over a new stadium, and you have Peter Gruber making a scene, you’re going to attract the kind of players the Warriors need. The player might think, “Hey, maybe they are trying to change things over there..Looks like they don’t want to be losers anymore”. It might be worth having my favorite place in the world removed from my backyard. I’m in it to win.
Don’t like my team cleaning other people’s spit.
by lilboots on Jan 26, 2012 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Not everybody from San Francisco is yuppie scum. Go have a little nap at the bus stop on Earl St. in Hunter’s Point at 11 pm and wear your Sunday’s best. Whoever wakes you up, it won’t be the swishy fellow working the make-up booth at SAK’s 5th Avenue.
Tony.psd = Da Man
Manager of Welcome to Loud City
#1 Warriors, Thunder, and Adonal Foyle Fan
LOL
I either live in Oakland State Park, or Rich people on hills
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 27, 2012 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
I live in El Something and work in Jail.
by Doctor Kajita on Jan 27, 2012 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
I either live in Oakland State Park, or Rich people on hills
that’s better than my place on the border between mexico and earthquakes.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 27, 2012 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Whoa now, why is Mt Diablo a fake mountain?!
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2012 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Here's a TOTAL outsider perspective.
I’ve been a life-long Warriors fan from Oklahoma City. Aside from the good people I’ve met here, I have zero ties to be Bay Area. And I’ve only been there once.
As I’ve only been there once, I can’t provide a fair and balanced opinion of the city. I was only there for a couple of days, and visited a few select areas. But when I was in Oakland (as a non world weary 17 year old), it was pretty rough. My most memorable experiences account to a guy trying to sell me porn DVDs at the bus stop, having some random hobo “help” me out when I bought a ticket and then request all of my change, and feeling pretty threatened the entire time. The whole place looked pretty trashy. I know, I’m a wimp, but I was just a wide-eyed kid from Oklahoma, going it alone on a trip for the first time.
San Francisco, on the other hand, was like the exact opposite of Oakland. After emerging from a BART station, I was surrounded by huge skyscrapers, rich business people on their lunch break, some really odd looking dudes on roller skates, and a whole lot more stuff going on. It was more expensive and touristy, and I felt like I was walking around Full House the entire time.
I remember talking to my Dad about it, and he basically told me that Oakland was kind of a dump compared to San Francisco, because that’s where all the money is.
But looking back on my experiences today, I can honestly say that I liked Oakland a whole lot more, and I’m proud to cheer for a team from that part of the Bay Area. Sure, I had bad experiences there. But there were some things that I just wouldn’t get in San Francisco. Remember the guy who tried to sell me porn DVDs? I missed my bus, waited for another 30 minutes, and he gave me a free ticket. Some guy sold me a rap CD on the subway, and it was pretty hilarious. I wore a City T-Shirt and a lady asked me where I got it. Several of the people at the hotel were really nice, and were totally surprised I came so many miles to see the Warriors. And, of course, the atmosphere in the Oracle was like no other, especially since it was back in the We Believe days.
I spent an equal amount of time in San Francisco, and I can’t say I had that many good experiences. The most interaction I had, other than a simple transaction, was taking some family’s photo in front of a statue. People went about their business, and I was mostly ignored. I’m not saying that people NEED to pay attention to me, I’m just saying that, for better or for worse, the atmosphere of Oakland was more friendly and alive.
So, all in all, I’d love for the team to stay in Oakland. I don’t care about money or politics….the Warriors have shot themselves in the foot several times regardless. But I think the team, culturally, is much more suited for Oakland. And a move to San Francisco would change a few things for the worse.
But, that’s just what I can see from my limited perspective.
Tony.psd = Da Man
Manager of Welcome to Loud City
#1 Warriors, Thunder, and Adonal Foyle Fan
by Zorgon on Jan 26, 2012 2:14 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
But when I was in Oakland (as a non world weary 17 year old),
who had the balls to carry the we believe banner into hostile Dallas for the playoffs :>) , forever in you debt young man.
now tell me you are working on your higher education and not letting basketball spoil it?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
But of course.
I’m doing a foreign exchange program in Austria right now. It’s tough getting up in the morning after watching NBA games in the middle of the night, but it’s just something you’ve gotta do.
I’m missing going to NBA games, but I’ll be back to carry the dubs banner next year. And I’ve enlisted some friends to give the Warriors support in OKC this Saturday.
And it’s still an honour to have my sign in your avatar. I am in your debt as well!
Tony.psd = Da Man
Manager of Welcome to Loud City
#1 Warriors, Thunder, and Adonal Foyle Fan
I’m doing a foreign exchange program in Austria right now.
That’s the best news I’ve had all year, no matter how the season turns out I can now call it a success.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2012 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Oakland truly does give a better fan experience when it comes to people
People are afraid of Oakland cause of crime reports but really Oakland people are really cool. SF people are way too uptight and rude. There is a certain appeal to Oakland
If we won a championship in Oakland I can honestly say it’d feel so much better, be more exciting, fun, and energetic then in SF.
RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5
"No difference maker in this draft taf. Sorry to be the 1 to break it to you." J-Ridah 1/23/12
i grew up in LA, and lived in alameda for 5 years. went to every clippers – warriors game those 5 years.
I have to say that , I live in LA again and zorgon is righta bout oakland. real people live there, they just feel like better fans, not the typical SF fan.
having grown up in LA, i know what the “laker fan” type is, and the post world series new giants fans , and this years 49ers fans a lot of them are that type too. but when i went to sporting events in oakland, it just felt like those were real people who would live and die with their teams.
oakland and the east bay for the most part really grew on me when i lived up there. it just seems liek a much more genuine place than LA or SF. i really hope they keep the warriors in oakland as i plan to watch some games there again (i’m actually coming up for presidents day, i’ll be the jackass wearing a sam cassell clippers jersey , feel free to boo me all game) with that crowd. i know if the warriors move to SF, ticket prices will double, and it’ll turn into a “laker crowd”
i’ll be the jackass wearing a sam cassell clippers jersey , feel free to boo me all game
haha, Naw Dubs fans love ET.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 30, 2012 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
your 'limited perspective' is a fair representation
up until about 40+ years ago (late 70s or so) Oakland and SF were much more similar than they are today. one of the dominant trends in amerikan life in that period is the revolutionary redistribution of income that has separated the elite further than ever, and SF overall was carried in its wake. there are still some SF neighborhoods where regular folk can reside, but they’ve shrunk considerably. on the east side, who would believe today that on or near Broadway between Old Oakland and Temescal there were at least four full sized businesses, not convenience stores, that stayed open 24 hours a day ?
forty years ago, northern californians did not have the present-day, stereotyped image of being pampered, narcissistic, and obsessed with fancy possessions/indulgences that fits SF, Walnut Creek, or Bersekley more than places like Oakland, Richmond, or San Jose.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
I'd worry about traffic
And definitely the fans, higher ticket prices + middle of a very rich area = more rich fair weather fans that will leave at half . I’m afraid the Roaracle crowd wouldn’t really migrate over the bridge so easily
RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5
"No difference maker in this draft taf. Sorry to be the 1 to break it to you." J-Ridah 1/23/12
If they move the team to SF the crowd will look like the Heat crowd.
by J-RIDAH on Jan 26, 2012 9:08 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
+ INFINITY
RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5
"No difference maker in this draft taf. Sorry to be the 1 to break it to you." J-Ridah 1/23/12
Like the heat crowd?
The heat have never had good fans. Moving to SF isn’t goin to change the fan base. They r moving 15 minutes from their current arena location. Yes ticket prices will go up. But that should be expected because the average ticket price to a warrior game is in the bottom 5 for all NBA teams. It will still be the same fans in a new arena rooting for a team that needs help attracting players to the bay area
I actually created a Fanshot about this a couple of weeks ago but deleted it.
I was proposing they stay in Oakland. I’ll re-tool my FanShot and bring it back.
Oakland is grossly under-developed. There are so many parts, even in nice neighborhoods, that could benefit from increased population density. The main thing preventing people with real dollars from investing in the city is its reputation. From nearly every measurable real estate indicator, Oakland is a far better place to develop than SF. I am in Real Estate (Commercial Underwriter) so I think I should have some viable input on the real metrics of stadium location.
That said, I obviously think they should stay in Oakland. Dont give me any crap about how the fans don’t want to go to Oakland. The Warriors have been pretty bad for a long time and that stadium down there off of 880 has reliably maintained very healthy ticket sales for years. Oakland is not the problem.
Oakland suffers from a version of the high-school-popularity-contest mentality. Remember the stinky kid in 5th period Algebra? No matter how many times the stinky kid took a bath, he was always going to be the stinky kid. Well, that’s Oakland ia a nutshell. People just refuse to accept that there is anything positive about Oakland.
Oakland, despite what you hear about the crime, is not as bad as you think it is. It’s a fact that 96% of Oakland’s homicides happen in a 20-block radius of EAST OAKLAND. The rest of Oakland is quite nice. You would never know that if you only listened to the news and didn’t actually live there.
The cost of building in San Fran alone would probably double ticket prices. Think about that.
"I was bangin' 7 gram rocks and finishing them 'cause that's how I roll." - Charlie Sheen
by Tremendous Hops on Jan 27, 2012 1:14 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
the owners would have a nice list of excuses to raise the ticket prices in SF
you’re in the profession, but the regular fans won’t usually think about why construction and operation of a major facility is much more expensive in SF until they see the prices. Essentially all associated costs, not just the land, get escalated : licenses and permits, taxes, wages, time(density and congestion), transportation. and the fan base will change, probably considerably, because seats will be marketed much more for out of town visitors who can splurge, the way they are for the ball park.
those higher costs might be the strongest factor in keeping the team on the east side. the Yorkists gave SF the finger because they couldn’t squeeze enough freebies from the taxpayers and Board of Supervisors, and they lined up loans for the Santa Clara deal from banks that profited immensely from federal bailouts. [the financial sector’s open, dirty secret — big banks received trillions in bailouts and turned hundreds in millions in profits out of it, with little discernible benefit to anyone not in the financial sector or in the favored few like n.f.l. owners]. Oakland will be at a disadvantage because it has nothing much it can afford to concede to superrich team owners, whether they’re Wolff or Lacob et. al.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
[the financial sector’s open, dirty secret — big banks received trillions in bailouts and turned hundreds in millions in profits out of it, with little discernible benefit to anyone not in the financial sector or in the favored few like n.f.l. owners]
Thank you Mr. Know It All for nothing!
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
big banks received trillions in bailouts and turned hundreds in millions in profits out of it, with little discernible benefit to anyone not in the financial sector or in the favored few like n.f.l. owners]
and messed with the free market system by bailing out bank bondholders from taking their just haircuts.Was a totally unnecessary step to take as deposit holders were insured by the govt. already so had nothing to lose while bank bond holders deserved to lose.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 28, 2012 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
I was just thinking that the biggest problem with Oakland...
…is not the crime issue at all.
The real problem with Oakland is the JPA.
Also, it didn’t help when The Uptown was built in one of the great places where a new stadium could have gone.
"I was bangin' 7 gram rocks and finishing them 'cause that's how I roll." - Charlie Sheen
by Tremendous Hops on Jan 28, 2012 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
Also, it didn’t help when The Uptown was built in one of the great places where a new stadium could have gone.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the present location,Like the Staples center it has great freeway access. Just build re-build here and build around it with whatever folks think is missing. A lot cheaper to build restaurants/night clubs around an existing arena than to build new arenas next to existing restaurants/night clubs. Don’t need the tail wagging the dog to enjoy a little hoops.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 29, 2012 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
I almost agree
Anything within a 1-mile radius of the new stadium is going to reap the benefits of having 17,000+ people walking near it at least 41 nights per year…and probably much more than that. Had the new stadium gone where The Uptown is now, everything in Downtown Oakland would have grown leaps and bounds. A new stadium would developed with private capital is exactly what Oakland needs. To not make that happen has almost got to be a deliberate effort on behalf of Oakland government and private equity.
As mayor of Oakland, Jerry Brown deliberately ignored this basic principal. He should have pushed to get the new stadium there and The Uptown could have gone somewhere in the surrounding blocks. That’s why I think he scuttled the effort to keep the arena(s) in Oakland. Ten years ago, Jerry Brown knew the Oakland teams weren’t going to stay (which is contrary to what Lew Wolffe has been saying). Those guys colluded to get (at least) the A’s out of Oakland. Except Jerry Brown has no idea what he’s doing in Real Estate so the housing that got built in Downtown Oakland is not performing like he expected it to. If only he’d asked me first and not taken a payout from his real estate buddies…like, Lew Wolffe and co.
Yeah, I said it. I’ve been telling this to people since it happened and I’ll continue to. Oakland got swindled so Jerry Brown could earn enough money to run his CA AG campaing and Lew Wolffe could say, “There’s nowhere to develop in Oakland!” As I said before, for Oakland to pass on private equity development is so grossly obtuse you can’t help but think it was deliberate.
"I was bangin' 7 gram rocks and finishing them 'cause that's how I roll." - Charlie Sheen
by Tremendous Hops on Jan 30, 2012 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, and to finish my point
The Coliseum Area would require much more to develop, even though it’s location is pretty good. I’m not sure there’s anywhere in the Bay Area that is literally sandwiched between a freeway AND a BART station – it’s pretty much perfect.
But have you been to Staples? The surrounding area is full of stuff to do.
If our new stadium went downtown, there is already some stuff there. And what is there, is growing in buzz and popularity. It’s already got infrastructure. And, had the stadium gone where The Uptown is, anyone from any corner of the Bay Area (except Marin and San Jose) could have jumped on the first BART Train and it would quickly take them to 19th Street. Same thing going home after the game – but in the opposite direction. Public transportation could hardly be better than having something located in the literal center of the transit system.
All the reasons people are suggesting the new stadium be developed in San Fransciso have NOTHING to do with real estate, and only with Oakland’s reputation. Oakland is simply waiting for something good to happen.
"I was bangin' 7 gram rocks and finishing them 'cause that's how I roll." - Charlie Sheen
by Tremendous Hops on Jan 30, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
Even if the warriors move to SF
It still doesn’t change the fact no FA wants to come here. The problem with not drawing FA it hasn’t nothing to do with location but the incompetence of the pervious ownership. Warriors had been losing for so long, it will take time for this ownership to change the league wide perception. Furthermore, if the warriors move to SF they will lose the great vibe they have at Oracle.
Friends don't let friends become a Giants fan.
"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
by sfniners4life on Jan 27, 2012 2:48 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
Stay in the O and keep it real!
I think that moving to SF is a terrible idea. First of all, regarding the crime, SF has tons and tons of crime and gangs and drugs. I don’t think that comparing Oakland’s crime and SF’s crime is a big difference. I think it is pretty equal. Anyone who thinks Oakland is crime-ridden but SF isn’t hasn’t been to SF. What about the overwhelming homelessness in SF? This is a HUGE turnoff to many people that is 100% present in SF, much more than a vague threat of crime.
I don’t think that SF is all that, I just don’t. It is not convenient for anyone to get there unless you live there. In my mind, I already would probably not go to half as many games as I do now just to avoid the SF madness. I know many people who avoid SF like crazy and are not enthralled with it whatsoever. I think that this is a growing feeling.
For attracting a bigger market, I highly doubt that and would like to see some better reasoning other than SF is a “premier” city. Teams can and do do well in smaller markets.
I also don’t think that prospective players would prefer to play for SF than for Oakland. Oakland does have a reputation as being tough in a good way, and is constantly referred to in rap songs and in youth culture as a positive place to be proud to be from (even if others don’t see it this way). SF, on the other hand, is seen more as soft. I was at a game last season and Too Short came out and rapped a little during a timeout. The crowd went nuts, as did all of the players, even from the other team. Mr. FAB comes all the time, the players love it!
I personally think that the bottom line is that moving the team would just gloss over the real issues that would still be there.
by picknpop on Jan 27, 2012 6:37 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
San Franciscans already think they’re better than others in the Bay Area. Let’s not give them anything else.
by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 28, 2012 10:37 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
absolutely not.
First off iv been a die hard warriors fan for two to three years now. I live in new orleans and am coming up for a weekend to visit my boi ther and see a game and experience Oakland. Not necessarily san fran. THe one intangible to a city and therefore its basketball team that you can’t replace: swag. Even though our murder rate is now much, much higher and it used to be closer, Oakland and my city r very similar from wut i know so far. Stay in oakland. Keep tha swagg.
#B4yAr3aSwagg
by letrusloose on Feb 1, 2012 10:11 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I live in new orleans and am coming up for a weekend to visit my boi the
bring gumbo
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2012 10:52 AM PST reply actions
bring gumbo
haha word. I got the gumbo yall got teh herbal remedies. Lookin forward to a chronypop and a chocolate chip cookie and some others hah. I’m comin up for a kings game cuz it’s two days after warriors play here in NO and i figure itll b a good cali lil rivalry to watch. Will be reppin signed anmo jersey with the city snapback i rep here.
lezzgo
by letrusloose on Feb 1, 2012 10:57 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
haha!
this whole post is awesome!
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Feb 1, 2012 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Do the teams fly into the Oakland airport?
If that is true (which makes sense because of convenience), all they see is the airport, that nasty part of 880, and the Oracle. Not nearly as impressive to ousiders as the city. The only reason I have ever gone to Oakland for anything is for sporting events.
Plus the Raiders and A’s will never have the fame/branding of the SF teams.
Don't hate, I thought this was funny
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
Oakland has been a good host to the Warrior franchise
year after year, we pack the joint and its the loudest gym in the NBA!
The land is there. No need to buy any land or do any environmental studies.
Since the Dubs are the only Bay Area NBA affiliate – it makes sense to keep them centrally-located and Oakland is the center of the bay.
" Sleepy Floyd is Superman!!!"
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