Appreciating the Run and Gun Warriors
At its core, sports is about winning. No matter how much is made of sportsmanship and respect, at the end of the day, each team's goal is to do whatever it takes to defeat the other team. Winning defines players, organizations, and owners. Win consistently and you are lauded as the jewel of your sport. Lose consistently and you are the laughingstock of your sport.
This is why it was so easy for fans to criticize the Warriors for the past few years. There was nothing redeemable about them - the players did not play defense correctly, Monta isolated too much, and most importantly, they kept losing. The Warriors remained locked in the Bay Area sports cellar and did not appear to be ready to leave anytime soon. It was not fun to be a Warriors fan.
However, as this 2011-2012 Warriors season has gone on, those run and gun Warriors have not seemed so bad in retrospect. They were not a talented team, but they knew how to make a game exciting - they always looked to push the ball to try to get an open three or dunk. This led to bad defense and groans from the fans, but it also led to some jaw-dropping plays, especially at Oracle Arena. The team seemed to play faster and harder to entertain the fans at Oracle, so you could always expect to be entertained if you bought tickets, as long as you did not expect a win.
This season's Warriors are the opposite of those Warriors. They execute in half court, attempt to clamp down on defense, and play a slower game. However, the issue is that they do not execute well in the half court and cannot defend consistently. Moreover, they suddenly cannot execute the fast break, which leads to blown layups and silly turnovers. While their defensive efficiency is still about the same as last year, their offensive efficiency has fallen off a cliff. Record-wise, the Warriors are worse than last year, when Keith Smart was criticized for failing to set the correct rotations and teaching his players how to play defense.
Ultimately, the problem is that this year's team is a paradox. The Warriors are defensive minded team filled with bad defensive players. They play at a much slower pace in an attempt to play better defense, but as the season has gone on the players have reverted back to form. Rotations are much slower than earlier in the season, multiple players make mental mistakes on defense, and the team often relies on zone to cover up its deficiencies. But because they are still a defensive minded team, they continue to play at a slower pace. This keeps the scores of games closer, but does not signify real improvement and does not make the game any more enjoyable.
In previous seasons, the Warriors did not kid themselves. Nobody on the team was a good defender, so they didn't try to pretend that they were a defensive team. By maximizing their talents on offense, the Warriors kept things fun for the fans. It was exciting to watch Dorell Wright rise up for a three during a fast break, because you knew that he would make it. Every game you knew that the Warriors would go on a crazy run sooner or later and that Oracle would go nuts, even if the Warriors were still down by double digits. Despite all the losing, the Warriors were still an entertaining team for the fans to watch.
So here is some belated appreciation to the run and gun Warriors. You were not a good team, but at least you made the losses bearable.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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haha nice article, good points.
Also like to add that when we were down by double digits the last few years we were certainly not out of it! That was pretty fun.
Jackson , to me, is not all that. Actually he kinda reminds me of Smart. Mostly by way of substitutions (which was my biggest gripe) . To both thier credit , i like our inbounds plays alot of times. But they both love them some Monta iso’s.
Yep, miss the run and gun; not, Smart, though! The positive side: we are giving Charlotte and New Orleans a run for the tank award!
Usually you knew Reggie would make the three 50% of the time; with Wright it was under 40% for most of the season! It was a lot more fun though.
It hurts me a little inside to say this, but I might actually be starting to miss Don Nelson….
by Missing Barry on Jan 29, 2012 2:49 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I don't
He basically gave up coaching in his last year. The only reason he remained was to get the record.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
I gif stuff
by doubleteapot on Jan 29, 2012 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
The only reason he remained was to get the record.
He had 12 million other, more practical reasons.
He basically gave up coaching in his last year.
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen that lazy piece of cud trotted out. The baby birds must be hungry.
Platitude is everything.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 29, 2012 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen that lazy piece of cud trotted out. The baby birds must be hungry.
Do you have any evidence to back that up? In his last season, his gameplan was “run up and down very fast for 48 minutes.” No, he wasn’t helped by the injuries, but it’s not like he came up with any ingenious schemes on offense or defense.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
I gif stuff
by doubleteapot on Jan 29, 2012 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
When Monta was out:
The Warriors had the 4th best offensive efficiency in the league…pretty amazing considering our d-leaguers.
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 29, 2012 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
And wasn't our defensive effiiency almost dead last?
Once again, I did not see any innovation, just guys running up and down the floor. If you keep running out you will eventually get easy buckets. Also, those D-Leaguers were pretty good scorers, especially Reggie.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
I gif stuff
by doubleteapot on Jan 29, 2012 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
Do you have any evidence to back that up?
I’m not the one making the baseless accusation. The burden of proof is on the people accusing a person of doing something unusual.
He sure as hell looked fired up in the last game of the year in Portland which was completely meaningless, after he already had his record. In fact, he would have been better served tanking that game considering he had one more year left on his contract. But he was out there, yelling at the refs, coaching his six healthy bodies. I think people really minimize the impact of injuries on his last two years here.
Platitude is everything.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 29, 2012 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
Congrads bsd ya made into the Fairfax GSOM quotes hall of fame! :-p
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen that lazy piece of cud trotted out. The baby birds must be hungry.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 30, 2012 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
I agree, and yet he still had a much better grasp on how to play winning basketball than what we’ve seen since…
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2012 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
I'm getting a nudge of nostalgia. Frankly, he might be doing wonders with this talent. I mean look at the Clippers...
They have a PG and a SG, shorter than ours (6ft and 6’3"), and delivering 50 points per game. I am sure Monta and Curry can match that if properly coached. They have a forward delivering a double-double; comparable numbers to Lee. So, they have a SF that does about what Wright does. Now, they have a center, Jordan, that delivers what our front office has not delivered to this team, two years running. Other than that, we have a stronger bench than they have!
nice write up dude.
Whos to blame for the change you reckon? Coach? Mgmt? Players?
I miss Nellie.
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 29, 2012 10:03 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
He did arrive just when the Warriors needed a veteran coach...
Plus the W’s were no longer boring……and won when healthy..
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 30, 2012 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
!!!
you’ve summarize my thoughts with exactitude.
Dear Mr.Jackson, you’re nobody to pretend to change a Culture, you’re here to make a good team, period
by atmtc on Jan 29, 2012 10:26 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
People are somewhat mistaken about how good an offensive team we were in past years.
eg, this year, right now, we’re 13th in points per 100 possessions – a much better indication of offense than PPG, which ends up primarily measuring pace.
Last year we were 12th.
Going back through the Nellie years:
2011-12 13th (as of today)
2010-11 12th
2009-10 14th
2008-09 9th
2007-08 4th
2006-07 11th
Although 11th my underestimate how good we were by the end of the season, since the team was remade in January. (That being said, the biggest upgrade: Dunleavy to SJax, was primarily a defensive upgrade).
So it’s worth remembering that while the 48-win team was legitimately a very good offensive team, none of our other recent teams have been. They’ve been averagish, maybe a smidge better.
They’ve LOOKED like good offensive teams because they ran up and down the court, and I guess that was exciting.
Bear in mind that offense is down substantially all around the league this year, I assume because the lockout/reduced practice schedule. So while our relative position is about the same as its been recent years, we’re a lot worse on offense – because everybody else is, too.
But that’s a word of warning that I’m pretty sure will go unheeded: Don’t judge who this team is offensively in absolute terms this season. If teams bringing back substantially the same players and coaches are down, offensively, this season (eg OKC down 3.4 points/100 possesion, Miami down 3.6 points/100 possessions) then a team trying to bring in a drastically new philosophy (and, again, missing it’s best offensive player for most of the season so far) is going to be WAY down (we’re down 4.9 pts/100 possessions).
So, even though it goes against every instinct in GSOM’s collective psyche, people need to not jump to any big conclusions about what we’re seeing on the floor right now. This is a weird season, and the weirdness of the season has a bigger impact on what you’re seeing on the floor that coaching/philosophical decisions.
2009-10 14th
We were 4th when Monta didn’t play though.
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 29, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
This wasn't a statistical post
My point was that in previous years, it was a lot more exciting, and guys were not stinking it up, especially in fast breaks. My point was that if the Warriors were going to keep losing, they could lose while turning up the pace and focusing on offense like previous years. It’s not fun watching the Warriors botch easy fast break opportunities.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
I gif stuff
by doubleteapot on Jan 29, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Well, as far as fast breaks -
The team isn’t missing “easy fast break opportunities” because of the new coaching philosophy. They’ve missing “easy fast break opportunities” because they’re not playing well. Mark Jackson does not appear to have told these guys not to run – rather, they’re running poorly.
Which looks, to me, like the problem is one of the overall league’s offensive struggles.
I don’t find uptempo basketball inherently more exciting that defensive basketball. Rather, I find good basketball to be more entertaining than bad basketball – and one has to recognize that our half-court offense in the last several years was terrible. If the new coaching staff is focusing on that rather than polishing up fast break stuff, I understand because these guys need to learn that. You can’t always run – and, in fact, one of the problems with our previous couple of years teams is that they would run even when they didn’t have an advantage, which often led to bad shots.
But overall, the slopiness that concerns you is a league-wide problem. You shouldn’t jump to any big conclusions because of it.
My point was that if the Warriors were going to keep losing, they could lose while turning up the pace and focusing on offense like previous years
I don’t think the was plan was to keep losing. They are trying to implement a new system and there are going to be some growing pains. I think some of our players are still trying to detox from the run and gun free for all. You can’t just abandon your entire philosophy and give in to losing. Just because the team is losing after 18 games, doesn’t mean you can just start playing to entertain with little regard to winning and establishing a new culture.
They’ve LOOKED like good offensive teams because they ran up and down the court, and I guess that was exciting.
Well, watching the likes of Chris Hunter and Cartier Martin didn’t really look like a good offensive team to me. That Nellie’s teams were doing what they did despite the injuries is pretty telling to me.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2012 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
It was a nice read and I agree with some of your points
However, I am not appeased by losing in an entertaining fashion. “At least they are entertaining” has been the Warriors fans’ mantra for the last decade. That is part of the reason management has never felt the pressure to put a winning product on the floor. As long as they are fun to watch and make a bunch of exciting plays, us Warriors fans will continue to smile and fill the team’s coffers. I like entertaining basketball, but I like winning basketball far more. I’ll take a 92-90 win over a 118-125 loss every time.
We have to give this type of basketball a chance. I think the team took a big hit when Kwame went down. It’s hard to play great defense when you don’t have quality defensive bigs. Even more so when your starting guards are Monta and Steph.
What I think the coaches don't get
is we can play defense and run our offense at a fast pace. We walk the ball up and begin our plays at about 16 seconds left in the shot clock so when the play doesn’t work we have to hoist up a terrible shot. You can’t have a good offense when you waste a third of the shot clock walking the ball up the court.
Wanna feel real torture? Try being a Warrior fan.
I think it is a process
Jackson came in preaching defense. He had a very short training camp and preseason and he wanted to focus on defense. That is what he had to do to show that he was serious about it. Maybe he overestimated this team’s offensive capabilities and they have looked sluggish and one dimensional at times. I think as the season goes on we will see the team running more when the situation dictates it. They can still run, they just need to pick their spots a little more selectively than in the past.
we can play defense and run our offense at a fast pace
Historically, this hasn’t really been the case. Defense takes a lot of work and giving the players a few seconds to catch their breath between plays probably helps them.
But more to the point, I think the issue is that the coaches are trying to teach offensive discipline and structure, and so having everybody run up and play “instinct ball” isn’t really going to do any good. In the long run, there’s a bigger benefit to implementing the sytem even if it takes some time to get everybody clicking.
Furthermore, there is very little advantage to running the ball up when the defense is back, which is the typical scenario after a made bucket. There’s a reason you see most teams only really run off of turnovers and rebounds. Often, when you run off of a made basket the defense is more set up than the offense, so you end up playing three-on-five or two-on-four.
On the we-believe team and the 48-win team that followed it there was a certain logic to that strategy because, Baron aside, that team was very deep with essentially interchangable players. What you lost in clumsy offensive plays you made up in depth when the other team was worn down and yet we just kept throwing another batch of athletic wings out there (JR, SJax, Barnes, Pietrus, Monta, Harrington, Azubuike).
But that doesn’t make pressing the ball up off a made bucket a good strategy in and of itself. It was very good for that system, but that system is never going to work when you go up against a team which has the talent and mentality to stop it. (Slow the game down, exploit our lack of real interior players – there’s a reason why we struggled so mightily against the Spurs during the Nellie years, why Utah beat us so easily, why the Webber Nellie team was demolished in the playoffs, etc).
Without that neverending wing depth, you end up forcing too many mediocre shots and you can’t make up for it with chaos and volume … which is why pretty much every championship-winning team of the past three decades has run some sort of half court offense after made buckets, rather than trying to force the issue.
by Ronaldinho on Jan 29, 2012 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
quality write-up, rec’d
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 30, 2012 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
ya, i second that motion.
Another thing I kinda baffled by is holding on to a 15 – 20 point lead… to me, its almost baffling how teams cant hold onto it. You can take 24 seconds off the clock with each possesion. We were up by 17 points the other night and had 7 minutes left in the game. They would have had to score 8 buckets to win and lets say those 8 buckets took an average of 10 seconds to make each (pretty quick) that is 1 min 20 seconds of game clock right there. Then during our 8 possesions we dont even shoot but use up our 24 second clock completely that would total that would eat up 3 minutes and 32 seconds , now add those two ttogether and what do you get???? 4 minutes and… 52 >.> seconds.. .. which <.< they would now have the lead.. BUT..but.. this is assuming they made every single possesion. Lets say they shoot hot .. and they are 70% from the field , then that would add a ton of more possesions and well, you get my point how do you give up a 17 POINT LEAD? [end rant]
and im glad inwardly for the tank movement
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 30, 2012 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
i liked run and gun
If anyone doesn’t then why have you been watching the warriors for the last 20 years? Seriously, 1 playoff in 17 years I know you had to watch for some reason, I always assumed people liked the warriors for the same reason I did, because they used to entertain. Maybe since I’m not from the bay I don’t get the whole “bay area” thing. I just like entertaining basketball. Now the warriors are going more conventional, which I’m down with but it is a process that’s going to take a while. The warriors have plenty of time since the heat/ thunder/ bulls are going to own the rest of the decade anyways.
by Xtremelink on Jan 29, 2012 5:22 PM PST via mobile reply actions
People living around a bay....and its an exceptional place to live.
I don’t get the whole "bay area" thing.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 30, 2012 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
lol
I know about the bay. Haha I meant I don’t share any bay area pride or anything like that. The bay is a beautiful place, never meant to sound like I was knocking it
by Xtremelink on Jan 31, 2012 12:50 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
What I came to realize is this:
Nellie knows so much about basketball that we can’t even comprehend his decisions sometime. Maybe he’s wrong once in awhile but we should defer judgment to him, not Tim Kawakami or Adam Lauridsen when it comes to coaching.
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2012 8:14 PM PST reply actions
What I came to realize is that all the small ball lineups, offense for defense tradeoffs…all those things that were so frustrating to watch….well, it really was the right move, and Nellie really was making positive tradeoffs with those things. No, it wasn’t going to take us anywhere, but it really did maximize what we had overall, and not just offensively. I have plenty of negative things to say about Nellie, but I really do think he was a basketball genius.
by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Those are honestly my same thoughts. I still don’t agree with giving Monta and Jackson a Kobe type role on offense or burning his players out, but we’ve seen what non-small ball and a “defensive” oriented system has done for us…
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 1, 2012 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
We gained more offense than we lost defense.
by Missing Barry on Feb 2, 2012 12:10 AM PST up reply actions
D was horrendously bad to where we weren’t ever going to be more than a low seed playoff team no matter how good the offense was….but still, it was a positive tradeoff considering where we were.
by Missing Barry on Feb 2, 2012 12:11 AM PST up reply actions
but we’ve seen what non-small ball and a "defensive" oriented system has done for us…
We have?
Wow. I mean, just wow. No training camp. A brand new system. No meaningful practice time. A lot of players being asked to give effort on defense for the first time. Our best offensive player out most of the season so far.
And you’re willing to come to a definitive judgement about the decisions we’ve made?
That’s crazy.
Nellie was a good coach.
He knew even if they put in defensive effort, they would still be a bad defensive team. At least try to maximize what you have.
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 2, 2012 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
False equivalency alert:
Yes, they would still have been a bad defensive team.
But they would have been better than they were.
Not having the players to be a top defensive team doesn’t mean defensive effort would have been wasted.
If it made your offense worse, it could.
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 2, 2012 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
Eh, I'm not willing to put Nellie on a pedestal like that.
I look at the talent he burned out of here, many of his frustrating decisions … no, I wouldn’t hire Kawakami to coach my team, but I’m not sure Nellie deserves the “well, it doesn’t make sense to me, but it’s Nellie so there must be a purpose to it” level of faith.
Not playing Randolph over Mikki Moore, playing Monta+Jackson too much + no reign were definitely negatives.
However, we’ve seen he’s a lot better than Jackson or Smart even with that…
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 1, 2012 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
I witnessed more negatives than positives toward the end of the Nellie era
He was a major factor in the dysfunction that plagued the Warriors. He was alienating and playing head game with the players. Once you were put in his doghouse, it was virtually impossible to get out of it. He didn’t have an active role in practices, which were essentially left to Smart. I seriously doubt he was putting in the time in the film room and preparing for games like most NBA coaches do. I expect more from a guy being paid $6 mil/yr. He looked completely out of it most games while sitting on the bench. He looked like he was in pain and would rather be sitting on a beach in Maui.
Yes, he didn’t have the greatest rosters to work with, but you have to keep in mind that the players we acquired were chosen to fit Nellie’s system. I still don’t trading the one decent PF (Harrington) on the team for Crawford. Nellie didn’t want to have big men on his roster unless they could shoot threes. Yes, they were entertaining, but those teams were going nowhere. There only purpose was to entertain and sell tickets to easily placated fans. Nellie was a great coach when he was younger, but that last year was difficult to watch him slumped over in his chair. He wasn’t the same coach he once was.
And what has the nice guy Coaches Smart and Jackson done with players?
Smart had an obvious doghouse for Curry, Reggie, BWright, etc. Biedrins has obviously been unhappy with Jackson…I don’t know.
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 2, 2012 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
Being better than Smart is hardly an accomplishment.
And it is way too early to make any sort of conclusion about who Mark Jackson is as a coach yet.
more negatives than positives toward the end of the Nellie era
like many geniuses nellie was flawed. He was very good at the part of the game he liked and very bad at the part he didn’t like and never understood that winning takes compromise and that one must do both things even though one is not as much fun.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 2, 2012 9:48 AM PST up reply actions

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