Kupchak may be leaving Lakers
Fire Larry Riley, bring in Kupchak? Might not be in the plans with Bob Meyers being the young heir apparent. Anyone know what kind of relationship Jerry West ahs with Kupchak? Could be the deciding factor...
I'd welcome Kupchak with open arms.
4 months ago
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How many players in the league did he discover before they came in the league? Besides Bynum I cant recall many.
He was a big deal maker because LA sells itself. Players want to come to LA. The Bay Area just isn’t at that level yet.
by Slightly Hyphy on Jan 30, 2012 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I ask the same about Riley.
Gambino is a mastermind...
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2012 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
While I agree LA sells itself a bit, we are talking about getting trades done.
He got Pau for Kwame Brown. Maybe he could do it again??? lol
i think marc gasol and the 2 first round picks were pretty big selling points in that trade
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
+1
Also Pau wanted out of Memphis and Jerry West was the GM at that time.
by mrorangesoda on Jan 30, 2012 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
Jerry West got Kobe for Vlade and Shaq for nothing. Its L.A, the city sells itself. Sterling got CP3 but we wont call him a genius for doing it. Everybody wants to live in L.A, well maybe not everybody but id say easily the vast majority of star players.
The hate Riley gets around here is uncalled for. He’s a good GM. The Monroe/Udoh pick is not enough to say he’s a bad GM. I have a feeling had we drafted Monroe half the board would be complaining about post defense and how we have none. Riley takes the best post defender in the draft aswell as the best shot blocker and ppl call for his head. Show me a bad trade Riley made, show me a bad case of talent evaluation Riley has made. Good luck with that.
Show me a bad trade Riley made
um…how about trading a 2nd rounder and lowering the protection on the pick we owed new jersey and getting absolutely nothing in return?
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
What second rounder are you referring to? Is it the 1 for cash that Cohan wanted? In regards to lowering the pick, who cares? Its over. He didn’t make the trade he just managed it. Blame Mullin.
he gave new jersey a 2nd rounder and lowered the protection on the first rounder to get nothing
sounds like an awful trade to me.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
you can spin it any way you want to
there is no way in hell that that can be considered “not a bad trade”
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
when you give away 2nd rounders for nothing, and then buy or trade for 2nd rounders
it doesn’t exactly balance out. and that’s not nearly as potentially disastrous as lowering the protection on the first rounder was.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
Well I can tell you when the 2nd round pick was sold to portland that was all Cohan. Any other 2nd rounders given away which is 1 should be a part of his overall evaluation. But you also have to take into account the free 2nd round picks that were given for guys like A-Mo and CJ.
Did you get the part about lowering the protection on the first rounder? That’s the key point here. Given how likely we are to finish in the #8-11 range, that may well be the difference between getting a #8-11 pick in a deep draft and getting nothing.
Oh wait, you did actually comment on lowering the protection:
In regards to lowering the pick, who cares? Its over.
Now there’s great logic. You ask for someone to name a bad move, and when they do, you say “who cares, it’s over.” Yep, amazingly enough, every bad move Riley has made is “over.” You want people to name a bad trade that he hasn’t yet made?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 30, 2012 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
The pick was gonna be gone regardless. He delayed the inevitable. He dont deserve any blame for anything associated with that dumb ass trade.
It was not “inevitable.” It was protected #1-11 this year and #1-10 next year. If not conveyed by next year, it would have become two second rounders: one next year and one in 2015.
The protections he took off changed that from top 7 protected this year, a top 6 protected next year, and top 6 protected again the year after next.
In sum: if the Warriors are a #8, 9, 10, or 11 seed this year and a #7, 8, 9, or 10 seed next year, Riley will have totally screwed the team out of a high-ish first round pick, for two second-rounders. Do you really think it’s that unlikely the Warriors finish in that range this year and next year? Personally, I’d rate the chances of that happening better than 50/50.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 30, 2012 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
Personally id rather lose the pick in this draft, being that I dont see the talent you all seem to see in it. Id much rather have a shot at a guy that I think will be the next big thing in the league in James Mcadoo in the 2013 draft.
Id much rather have a shot at a guy that I think will be the next big thing in the league in James Mcadoo in the 2013 draft.
since he will likely go top 6, we wouldn’t lose him if we had the chance to draft him in 2013, so your argument is null.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
Dude, make an effort to read what other people are actually writing and try to stay on topic. The question isn’t whether you prefer the guys at the top of next year’s draft to the guys at the top of this year’s. The question is, would you trade either a #8-11 pick this year or a #7-10 pick next year for two second-rounders. There’s a pretty good chance that’s what Riley will have done by frivolously lowering the protections on the picks. How is that defensible?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 30, 2012 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
Your asking the wrong person. I have no interest in this draft whatsover. I comprehend whats being said, I just dont give 2 sh_ts about this draft and will be glad when the pick is gone and we can move on. If those 2 second rounders turned out to be solid players then I guess. If you wanna knock Riley for the trade, have at it. Im happy the pick no longer will hinder us. This draft is beyond overated.
If those 2 second rounders turned out to be solid players then I guess.
you guess what?
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
you realize how hard it is to find solid players in the 2nd round right?
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
because he got nothing in return AND he lowered the protection on the pick
seriously it’s like you can’t even read.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
I’ll give it some thought but I feel that Riley has not made nearly as good a moves as he has bad ones…
I think it would be good for discussions so we can get a good overview of his tenure..
I harken back to all the deals he made that cleared some cap but never used it up…his quest for a big for the hope of a season and it turned out to be MM….
Maybe someone can list all his transactions and take a look at the whole of it, but I just don’t have any confidence in him to make the great deal for us or to draft the right guy…Monore seemed like a perfect fit and at the same time filled our need for a big…and he drafted a guy was not even projected within the next 5 picks..I don’t want to be unfair but at the same time I don’t want to support a guy that hasn’t come through..
I have to give him credit for Curry, even though I know Nelsons finger prints were all over it, if Klay turns out to be a starter then it helps level things out some…
But all know we needed a big and Monroe was to me a perfect fit, a passing big that can rebound and score some…
I would like to see a thread and have all of his transactions posted to look at….I’m go lazy to do all that work right now ;)
David Lee is a passing big that can rebound and score some yet all I hear about him is his lack of defense. What makes you think fans wont be crying about Monroe’s lack of defense as much as they cry about Udoh’s lack of offense? Last time I checked, Monroe wasn’t helping his team win games. I can see if he put the Piston franchise on his back and lifted them up, then I would say dude was a game changer. If he was on our squad with our scorer’s he would score alot less and his defense would really be glaring. As of now, if you were to ask me who’s better between the 2 id say Monroe is. But I cant knock Riles for making the pick when Monroe came in as a slug and got destroyed in his workout by Samhan.
Why do you judge people by whether they can put a franchise on their backs?
Last I checked Udoh isn’t doing that either… in fact he’s not even starting. David Lee can rebound but not box out at all… Monroe is also a legit big man with his size. He isn’t being heralded for his amazing scoring. He’s being heralded for good post moves, good rebounding (boxing out), good passing, and overall being just a better pick than Udoh (which every scout was saying he was much better than Udoh). Just because someone comes in and doesn’t perform well doesn’t mean he doesn’t have potential… What I saw in Udoh was someone who had a meh offensive game but was a great shot blocking presence and had good help defense and average one on one defense. However the big thing was his age: he was 23 and wasn’t dominating his peers at all (despite the fact that he was older and thus his body was more mature). He had limited upside whereas Monroe was much younger and showed a more refined offensive game despite playing less than stellar defense.
Monroe was the risky pick
Udoh was the safe pick: you knew what Udoh had. You didn’t know what Monroe was capable of… He could have been a bust easily… However I feel that on a team headed no where you need talent, and even bad young big men can be traded away for something (Cousins). What the Udoh pick showed was a lack of long term vision and a fear of bust, which are both bad strategies for picking players.
It was a no brainier because we have been in desperate need of a C, and the fact that he was the consensus best next pick we would not have been looked upon as drafting for need above talent…
I think you hit it on the head, they went for what they thought was a safe pick without doing their homework….I am just a fan and I could see him becoming a nice player with the type of skill sets he was already developing, he don’t have to be the franchises player to be a 3rd best man, I love a passing C with BB IQ, do you recall Bill Walton when he played? that’s the kind of player I was hoping for in Monroe, not that he would be a hall of fame player but an adequate center that could be our 3rd or so best player that could pass get out on the fast break and box out, the scoring is a bonus..
I looked at all that before the draft, but there was a bigger upside because of his BB IQ, he was a willing passer, and he had fairly good ability to score, I could envision him with Curry as our foundation…I was excited, I also wanted Bynaum at the time….we have had a need for a big man for a long time and we have passed them up….
I think we either have to pull off a miracle trade now or blow the team up or we will have a very long time of rebuilding, look how fast the Cavs are getting back on their feet, and also the Clips..funny how that worked out..
I don’t see Udho as anything more than a bench man, and we drafted him to high, we could of traded down I thought…
Why do you think Riley is so good of a GM? do you have any personal relationship with him your protecting? I am just looking at him as a pure observer, I’ve never talked to him personally.. and I fell I have given him time before my opinions have formed..
I think Riley is a good GM because he is a good talent evaluator. Finding guys like Reggie and Tolliver is just 1 example of that, 1 can make the case that finding those guys out of D-League is better than a 2nd round pick. I think in due time you’ll see that Charles Jenkins could be a starter somewhere in the league. Nobody has found more guys out of the D-League than Riley. To get Dorell what we got him for was another example of talent eval by Riley/Schlenk. And as many of you would say Steph was a no brainer, in actuality it was not a no brainer, we had plenty of guards at the time and the safe pick was a big. So to say Riley only goes with safe picks is a lie, Monroe was more of the safe pick than Udoh. So lets say at his zenith Udoh become a Ibaka/Gibson type of player and Monroe becomes a David Lee clone. Then what? Is the disparity that glaring that Monroe coulda changed this franchise? I realize trade value is important but so is post defense and ill go on the record and say Udoh is top 10 in post defense at his position. I dont get how everybody wanted Biyombo but is crying over Udoh. Sure he could rebound more, but nobody can deny dude is a defensive stud.
Last time I checked
Monroe was under a rookie contract, and David Lee was being paid 80 million over 5 years
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by doubleteapot on Jan 30, 2012 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
He let guys walk for nearly nothing
And hasn’t done anything to prove he’s a top GM . He signed Kwame and got Curry. Those were his good moves, Lee is a stretch since he’s so vastly overpaid
RIP Al Davis
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twitter - @nateoak5
"No difference maker in this draft taf. Sorry to be the 1 to break it to you." J-Ridah 1/23/12
Lee was a good signing. We wasn’t gonna get anybody better to sign here for less. Believe it or not. Lee’s contract has not prevented us from signing 1 star as of now and coming into a offseason with 11 mill in capspace and a 9 mill contract in Biedrins we can dump, I dont see it preventing any in the future. I know as a GSW fan the obvious thing to do it focus on what a guy does/did wrong.
And who did he let walk for nothing? If you could get those players and their contracts back would you want to?
Morrow and CJ
Could have used them last year . We got minor things back, very minor
RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5
"No difference maker in this draft taf. Sorry to be the 1 to break it to you." J-Ridah 1/23/12
It's not about signing a star
But having the extra cap to take on in a trade or helping us get a better draft slot. I know we can’t sign a star unless we vastly overpay , we aren’t winners so that is given. Stars sign with winners. But we could still trade for one or draft one, Lee hinders that undoubtedly since he puts us outside of our draft pick and isn’t valuable within a trade
RIP Al Davis
PS3 - agentpoop (dont ask why the name... tell me if your from a blog)
twitter - @nateoak5
"No difference maker in this draft taf. Sorry to be the 1 to break it to you." J-Ridah 1/23/12
I have a feeling had we drafted Monroe half the board would be complaining about post defense and how we have none.
yeah, pretty sure people will complains about Monroe grabbing those meaningless lazy rebounds and score meaningless lazy pts for Warriors, and want to trade for Udoh.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Jan 30, 2012 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Had we picked Monroe over Udoh, I’m pretty sure most people here will not complains about it.
But have fun beating up on your ridiculous straw men.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 30, 2012 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
Show me a bad trade Riley made, show me a bad case of talent evaluation Riley has made. Good luck with that.
1. Not dumping Biedrins for the crap Houston offered (ie young expirings who would get us out of his contract
2. 6yearts/80 mil for a player not capable of getting us to playoffs
3. Refusing to rebuild
4.
There’s more to being a GM than “talent evaluation”.
You have to be able to actually have a coherent plan to build a consistent playoff team. He doesn’t. If he had the stones to actually trade monta in 20010 and not sign Lee. Acquire picks, DRAFT better, we might be closer to playoffs than we currently are, and beyond that… be closer with sustainability.
Just my two cents. For every 2 wins he buys (with a signing or trade) it’s 5 wins he takes off the potential ceiling that drafting better and building internally can bring.
For someone who thinks we’ll never attract free agents, you should be first to agree with concept of building internall thru scouting. The best way to get high potential players at a low cost, under team control is the draft.
So we dump Biedrins for Houstons garbage, then who is our starting C?
Name a player better than Lee that you believe was willing to sign here for less cash
How can you say they refuse to rebuild when they gutted half the team? Entirely new bench with 3 rookies on the roster and another 1 playing well in the D-League.
Once again, how can you say talent evaluation isn’t everything and in the same breath say we need to build thru scouting. Let me break it down for you, Riley is the talent evaluator, Schlenk is aswell, Meyers is the negotiator to get the deals done for the players Riley and Schlenk want. I dont get what you guys are tripping for, we have 3 rookies on the roster that all will be back next season. How much younger do you wanna get? We dont have 1 30 year old on the roster.
the Monroe vs. Udoh complaints sounds good in hindsight
the conventional choice (Monroe) does end up right some times. There was also some scouting that he lacked a work ethic, and was physically soft, which probably led Riley to consider Udoh a safer pick. Is Udoh a worse n.b.a. player than B.Wright, chosen ahead of Noah ? Why did Wright seem to have more fans here blaming the coaching or insisting how he’d break through and have a consistent impact — is it just a matter of Wright’s age when he was drafted vs. Udoh’s ?
Up until the rift with Rowell over punishing Ellis’ transgression and lost season, Mullin seemed to have much more autonomy than Riley ; before Riley’s recent promotion and raise, Mullin definitely had a bigger job title and salary. Riley had to be sure to please the new owner to keep his job at the time of the Lee acquisition and Udoh’s draft. His owner probably doesn’t look at those ‘blunders’ the same way some fans here do, and in the end whose opinion really counts ?
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
no on Kupchak
i’ve had some experience with him off the basketball court — a nice guy, but not the sharpest tool in the shed.
away from the Lakers he will not be as strong. It’s kind of like having Michael Jordan to build around, everything else becomes a lot easier.
Not the guy to rebuild a franchise.
well, get Kupchak
If he brings Kobe with him.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Jan 30, 2012 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
I'd take him over Riley if the Lakers let him go.
The main thing I like about him is the connections, and his ability to get things done. I’m not entirely sure he’s a great GM, but he’s certainly good enough to be an improvement for us. Working for the Lakers has its built in advantages, but so does working for the Knicks, Bulls, or Celtics. Since Kupchak took over over, the Lakers have won 5 Championships and been to 7 Finals series. The other 3 teams combined have 2 appearances and 1 Championship, all coming from the Celtics. During his time as GM, the Lakers have been to the Finals more times than all other Western Conference teams combined. That’s doing a pretty good job, even with the built-in advantages.
A list of notable moves he did or didn’t make (good or bad):
Additions of Karl Malone and Gary Payton
Trading Shaquille O’Neal for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, and Brian Grant
Drafting Andrew Bynum
Not trading Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd
RUMORED Trading Kobe Bryant for Luol Deng, 2 of Joakim Noah/Ben Gordon/Tyrus Thomas and draft picks
Trading Brian Cook and Mo Evans for Trevor Ariza
Bringing back Derek Fisher (most may not consider this an important move, but I think it signified a shift back to winning after the Lakers were in and out of the first round of the playoffs after the departure of Shaq)
Trading Kwame Brown, Crittenton, and Marc Gasol and 2 1st Round Draft Picks for Pau Gasol and a 2nd Round Draft Pick
Signing of Ron Artest to the MLE
RUMORED Trading Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom for Chris Paul
The two RUMORED are deals that are believed to have been completed between GMs, but then vetoed by Kobe Bryant or David Stern/League Office.
There are plenty of other smaller moves that have contributed to the Lakers success, but if you really care to know more, then looking him up would probably be a good idea.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
RUMORED Trading Kobe Bryant for Luol Deng, 2 of Joakim Noah/Ben Gordon/Tyrus Thomas and draft picks
Would this have been Derrick Rose?
Man, that looks silly now :)
Does it?
The Lakers have 2 rings since that trade fell through.
The Bulls have 0.
If Kobe had been in Chicago, those picks wouldn’t have turned into Rose, not even close. They would have probably been post-lottery, even with a “gutted” team.
Whenever you give up a superstar for younger pieces, it’s nearly impossible to win the trade. In the cases that you do, it often turns out that the superstar as actually not as good as advertised, and more like a star than a superstar. I’m not prepared to say the Nuggets won the Melo trade, but so far, it certainly looks that way. Of course, he isn’t close to what Kobe Bryant was in 2007 or what Dwight is this year. Orlando, no matter the package they get back, are nearly destined to lose that trade, in terms of player value.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
What makes people think that Kupchak is a good GM?
He’s got one good draft pick on his resume – Bynum – and beyond that, what?
Odom wanted to play in LA and would take less money to stay there.
Gasol was gift-wrapped by Memphis in a deal other teams would have topped if given the chance.
Kobe was there when Kupchak got there.
Beyond that, the Lakers are a horribly-put together team. Beyond their big three they’re god-awful, and the moves they’ve made in recent years haven’t been good ones.
Mike Brown is a bizare choice for a coach for that team, although he can hardly be blamed for the mess they’re in. But bringing in a coach with a new system in a year which might be the last of the Kobe era and they’d have minimal practice time to learn it? Hiring Rudy T? How’d that work out for them?
by Ronaldinho on Jan 30, 2012 6:30 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
There's a reason rumors are abound that Kupchack is on the way out.
Jim Buss has wrested much of the control of the Lakers from him since last season. There has been plenty of rumor behind the idea that both the Paul trade and Mike Brown hiring were decisions ultimately pushed for and made by Buss rather than Mitch Kupchack.
You’re speaking about this season alone (besides Rudy Tomjanovic), when he’s got a decade’s worth of evidence suggesting he did a good job with the Lakers. You say Pau was gift-wrapped, but regardless of your belief that it was easy, HE got Pau Gasol and those other teams did not. He was able to help build and maintain a championship caliber team 5 times in a decade. That’s impressive, no matter your circumstances.
Also, to judge him based off of draft picks is odd, seeing as Bynum was the only time they actually had a lottery pick. 1 for 1 in the lottery definitely isn’t something you can judge him negatively off. It’s not a ringing endorsement either, but he made the right pick in the instance that he had the opportunity to.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Well, sure, grabbing Bynum proved to be a very good pick, and he deserves credit for it.
It was a controversial move at the time because making it required assessing how big Kobe’s window was likely to be, since they could have grabbed players who would have helped them more immediately.
But Kupchak has done a very poor job of doing what our current brain trust has done: upgrading the talent around your top players. If the Lakers had been able to add players like Dorell, Nate, and Rush they’d be favorites for a title this year. Instead they’re the most top-heavy team in the league.
But in any event, it’s downright stupid to bring in a new brain trust and then show them the door after one year.
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