Lessons Learned from the Linsanity
With all this Linsanity going on in the Madison Square Garden, I sure hope the Warriors Front Office is taking notes.
This post isn't about how shortsighted we were in letting Lin go. How we cut loose his NBA minimum salary in the hopes of overspending it on Deandre Jordan. How we never had a shot at signing Deandre Jordan anyway (thank god). No, this post isn't about that. There's more to be learned from this.
What I want the Warriors to learn from this is that Knicks are winning games in the NBA without their overpaid ballhogs, Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire. They're winning without Carmelo's 25 ppg and without Amare's double-doubles. And, in this same NBA, we're scared to death of losing Monta's 20ppg. Hell, we're deathly afraid of using the amnesty on Andris Biedrins. Andris Biedrins.
The Knicks are winning by playing as a team, sharing the ball, and making smart decisions. Jeremy Lin's smart play has become contagious throughout the team.
My point is this: If we lose a guy like Monta Ellis, or David Lee, or Andris Biedrins - the world is not going to end.
We will continue on and we may even start playing better. Let's not be afraid of making moves that'll make ourselves a better basketball team. Monta's scoring can be replaced. David Lee's double-doubles can be replaced. Andris' salary can be replaced.
Sometimes it's addition by subtraction. What we're doing isn't working. I hope we recognize that.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Lesson from "Linsanity"
That GSOM is apparently flooded with Knicks fans.
by kyzah on Feb 11, 2012 8:47 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I wasn’t aware that rooting for a former Warrior to succeed automatically makes you a fan of the other team?
I wasn’t aware that rooting for a former Warrior to succeed automatically makes you a fan of the other team?
it’s probably a matter of the proportionality of the interest? Reading the NBA highlights once a week makes sense but hanging on every minute of a knicks season don’t?
When Jrich, Barnes, and Pietrus left it was nice to read they made the playoffs at season end but I didn’t watch any of their games, so maybe we’ll have the same opportunity with JLin?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 12, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
+100000000000000
I don’t mind hearing references from former Warriors from time to time. I absolutely HATE hearing about a former Warriors everyday on my local blogs, radio, television, and newspapers. Dude is a Knick now, the amount of coverage being given to his play in the bay area right now is absurd.
by kyzah on Feb 12, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
It's not Knick fans
Obviously, it’s Jeremy Lin. He’s a great story no matter where he’s playing. I doubt there’s anything about it being the Knicks that contributes to the interest around here, though being in NY always helps get the national coverage.
"Your curses do not compare to those of Houston fans or Detroit fans, and especially not to those of fans from the northside of Chicago. You are not Hamlet. You are Valerie Bertinelli. Your victim act is schlocky, and totally unconvincing. You fancy yourself tormented. You are merely insecure."
-- Scott Burton to Red Sox fans, 6/12/02
http://espn.go.com/magazine/burton_20020612.html
lesson: someone needs to get fired...
since offseason – lose lin for nothing, lose reggie williams for nothing, amnesty a 4 mill expiring, miss on chandler, miss on Jordan..I vote that it’s the guy that says “how important is the amnesty, really,” and holds the current title as GM and Charles Dickens fanatic, Mr. Larry Riley.
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Feb 11, 2012 9:05 PM PST reply actions
the idea to amnesty Bell over Biedrins may have
well been Lacob not Riley, but I said this when Smart was fired. Riley has done nothing, and should have fired himself by the logic he used to fire Smart. Riley got a short extention to ride through the early years with Lacob’s transition, but Riley’s days are coming to an end in the next year if the Warriors can’t improve the roster.
I thought the Ws were going to pick Greg Monroe until Riley said they were going with Ekpe Udoh the night before. Could not believe it!
And if we picked Monroe, we probably would have kept Jeremy Lin since we would not need DeAndre Jordan. Not goes right for the Warriors. We got Jerry West and Larry Riley is still the GM :(.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
+1. Getting rid of Riley would make my season. And while you're at it, clean house and get rid of Fitz and hire Greg Papa again to team with Jim Barnett.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
clean house and get rid of Fitz and hire Greg Papa again with Jim Barnett.
Greg Pappa is probably my favorite play by play voice of all time. He’s the dude. Can’t stand that little punk Fitz with his pursed up mouth and his furrow-brow….the spiked hair, I can’t freaking stand em.
We got Jerry West and Larry Riley is still the GM :(.
This grieves me. It’s troubling, because you know Jerry West’s love for the game has seen no decline, and he’s already responsible for taking some of the biggest steps to turn this thing around.
Beg him to be GM and make ALL ROSTER DECISIONS and then get the hell out of his way.
Monta’s scoring can be replaced. David Lee’s double-doubles can be replaced. Andris’ salary can be replaced.
Basically agreed, but how are we going to replace Andris’ salary????
There will be no extra point!
Man if only there was a way to cut a player without his salary impacting your cap space
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
I gif stuff
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln
by doubleteapot on Feb 11, 2012 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe some sort of pardon or amnesty. Why does the NBA never try to help out the little guy??
"We Deserve"
We trade beans for a late 1st round pick to a contender that needs a backup expiring big ?
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 12, 2012 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
haha, I like the way you're thinking but...
at this point, I’m highly doubtful that you could get a 1st rounder for Beans
also, pretty doubtful a contending team would pursue him
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Feb 13, 2012 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
David Lee
David Lee’s double-doubles can be replaced
I know ..defense and contract but…..I have not forgotten those years when everyone here thought that our biggest black hole was the PF position(Andris was still considered ok dispite play regession) and how we suffered through the FO’s wasted drafts of B Wright, AR and even Udoh at the #6 pick for craps sake …dozens of fantasy posts about grabing PF’s from other teams that just wasnt going to happen even if the FO tried their best(similiar to the ones about DW and even Gotat)….basically David Lee the best we could have realistically aquired…if this isnt true…then someone please tell me which PF better than Lee out there was a lock for for us to "realistically acquire? I would really like to know? And it better be someone who is great a defender as well and tanking for a draft pick is another story..last opportunity for that resulted in Udoh.
Even if we had the cap space with a Lee amnesty which great PF star is out there for the taking for the same amount who would actually agree to come here?
Sorry end of rant.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 14, 2012 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
Great post
I think Larry Riley needs to be fired. It’s going to happen anyway, so why keep him around?
What the HELL are we doing? Where is Jerry West? If I’m Lacob, I’m begging West right now, to take over the GM position, full time. I give him my house, and I stay in a downtown motel. Whatever it takes.
West was the guy that said, “I just don’t know about him”, when talking about Jordan. He’s not the guy who would’ve paid Chandler 16 million a year.
We need Jerry West to be our GM. Bob Myers’ tutelage should be from that guy, not Larry Riley.
The Jerry West piece in Sports Illustrated over in our fan shots has Jerry West talking about DeAndre like he was the answer to all our problems.
" I think the one player that we made an offer on would’ve made a wonderful difference for us, and that’s DeAndre Jordan. He’s a rising center, he’s the brand of basketball that would be beneficial to the Warriors."
by Uwe Blog on Feb 12, 2012 1:52 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I think West probably had it right on DJ. I don’t know about “the answer to all our problems,” but Jordan has been very, very good this year: just as ridiculously efficient on offense as he was last year, with a slight uptick in rebounding and shotblocking, and a slight drop in fouls. And he’s still only 23.
Absent an elite player, what this team needs above all else right now is a big, young, athletic, efficient, rebounding, post-defending beast. Number two on the list, imho, is to get rid of Monta and his inefficient, poor rebounding, poor defending ways. From everything we’ve read, Jerry West seems to have been right on the money on both counts.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 12, 2012 6:02 AM PST up reply actions
Sure, I agree. I was just pointing out a major contradiction between what Lilboots said about West regarding DJ and what West was actually quoted saying. I’m sure you see that.
“I just don’t know about him” is a lot different than “I think the one player…who would’ve made a wonderful difference…” you see what I’m getting at?
I exaggerated with " the answers to all our problems", but I didn’t make up a quote to make my point.
by Uwe Blog on Feb 12, 2012 11:42 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Jordan has been very, very good this year:
9.7 points/36 and 10.4 rebounds/36 at $10M is very, very good?
He scores efficiently, sure. But all he can do is dunk, so it’s not like there’s room for his usage to expand. He still turns the ball over too much, can’t pass and can’t really defend (he gets a lot of blocks, and that’s exciting, but he’s an average post defender at best).
He’s the exact same player he was last season, with a few marginal steps forward and a few steps back, but at a drastically increased price.
by Spider Jerusalem on Feb 13, 2012 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
We need someone to protect the paint.
Esp. if we’re going to keep our small-ball guard lineup.
Offensively, Monta & Steph are a handful, period. Defensively, they’re a liability. So if we keep them, we have to shore up the lane. It’s not rocket science.
DJ or Chandler would have been perfect compliments for that. They make guys think twice about attacking the lane. Our Monta + Steph lineup would look a lot less vulnerable if we had 2-3 bigs we could rotate that do nothing but knock guys who drive the lane on their asses or block shots into the stands. Bonus points for guys with good hands (cough Kwame cough)…
Sadly, this team would look totally different — much better — if we had Kwame. Hard to believe, I know.
This team had Kwame, and it didn't look any different.
They were still a mediocre team with limited talent.
The simple truth is that we only have one player on the roster with an elite skill. There just isn’t enough talent on this team. A slight improvement at center isn’t going to make that big of a difference.
by Spider Jerusalem on Feb 13, 2012 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
a big, young, athletic, efficient, rebounding, post-defending beast.
Didnt we draft that guy…oops, guess not. ;-)
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 14, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
I didn’t read the piece in SI. The only comment I ever read on the matter from West, was that he “just wasn’t sure about him.” I didn’t take that as some kind of gauge on his level of talent. He’s gotten better every year, and he’s still very young.
To me, that meant that Jerry West wasn’t really into the whole idea of offering a contract that the Clippers were going to match, regardless.
I agree with West and still feel D Jordan would have been an almost perfect fit at the 5 for the Warriors.
His athleticism and defense with our current crop of offense would have been fantastic.
"That was very funny about the old man basketball skills. One is lucky to escape injury when playing against those crafty, crusty sumbitches. And it’s just demoralizing when they demonstrate yet again how to use the backboard from range." - Charlie Custer
by SmittytheCutman on Feb 12, 2012 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
Biggest lesson from Linsanity -- Why does this team that lose so much but still struggle to give minutes to young players?
If the Warriors kept Lin, I really feel that he’d still be sitting @ the end of the bench. Looking at the Warrior’s record it truly baffles me how many starters are locked into their position through salary. Bench has improved from last season but the starting 5 hasn’t. Bringing back this starting 5 for this season & next season & only tinkering w/ the bench is like putting lipstick on a pig. Small cosmetic changes that really don’t address the problem.
Linsanity would never happen @ Golden State because there just aren’t enough minutes left over – which really drives me nuts. Dump some starters already and give young players a chance to play. Although I doubt any of the young players on this team will have Lin’s impact, at least the younger players will develop faster (assuming they are good enough to develop).
Lin's opportunity in GSW
Here’s the irony of the situation this year: There’s been a lot of mention that Lin would never get the opportunity to shine here like he is with the Knicks. However, Curry’s been injured most of the year. We signed Nate Robinson later on to fill the void which Jeremy Lin would’ve had the opportunity to fill.
Linsanity could’ve happened at the Oracle.
"We Deserve"
Doubt it. The Warriors are always in the win now mode even though they don't win much.
Last season, Acie Law was given priority because Smart was desperate and didn’t want to gamble on developing youth. He needed to make playoffs or get fired. This season, I doubt the Warriors would go straight to Lin. I’d see them going safe & signing another vet who they can bring in instead of Lin.
Hmmm, I have been wondering about that same thing....
Curry’s been injured most of the year. We signed Nate Robinson later on to fill the void which Jeremy Lin would’ve had the opportunity to fill
The cynic in me says that Lin would not have been given the chance to play through his mistakes like he was allowed in the NY miracle.
A turnover or 2 and Jenkins would have played instead or Monta would have run point with Jenkins backup…..Lin would have rode the bench.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 14, 2012 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
The number one thing learned by Linsanity
If you are really good at 1-2 specific things, and have a coach who knows how to utilize it, you’ll excel.
He runs one of best Pick and Rolls in NBA (Statistically #1 at the moment, but i’ll call regression to a mean and assume guys like Nash will surpass him). If our, i dunno coaching staff, management staff etc. realized this and gave it a shot, we’d have never lost him.
Think about it, he’s big enough to guard 2s in certain situations. Why couldn’t he have been our 3rd guard and played stretches with Curry? Lin PnR, Curry off a screen?
If you are really good at 1-2 specific things, and have a coach who knows how to utilize it, you’ll excel.
Unless that one thing is too limited, in which case they’ll (eventually) figure it out and take it away from you.
Which is the real question about Jeremy Lin. Once he starts playing teams that defend the P&R half-decently, and are aware of his tendencies, will he be able to keep it up? The T-Wolves rendered him ineffective without much in the way of team-wide adjustments (they never hedged on the P&R – it was all Rubio), which should be a major point of concern going forward.
Of course, some of us were pointing this out 2-3 games ago.
Which is why I think he'll be a bench player long term or a role player.
But my point wasn’t ‘oh my god, we let go of an efficient 25 and 8 allstar’
My point was we let go of a cheap, effective backup guard, who did multiple things well and could have plugged the gap acie law, ish smith and nate robinson did.
My point is we are wasting time looking for a player (back up pg/3rd guard) when we had one, and were unable to realize it. Which makes me question our ability to evaluate talent. Namely, Larry Riley and co. But I was already doing that.
How can 20pts, 8 assists, 3 or 4 rebounds and a win with the 2 best players out of the game be considered ineffective?
The T-Wolves rendered him ineffective without much in the way of team-wide adjustments (they never hedged on the P&R – it was all Rubio),
Scratching my head with statement since I watched the the game….agree that Rubio had success with Lin but calling Lin ineffective in that game is quite a stretch…..Lin will most probably not “keep up” 25pts/8ast of course …he may just just settle in as a PG that makes the Knicks a much better team….gotta say the unholy though that if he keeps the same “juice” going forward dispite lower future stats that he will be a better pure PG than Curry….Could visualize him as the starting PG for the Warriors with Curry at the 2 and Monta competing with Klay for the 6th man minutes. He currently brings more energy and “juice” to the PG position. I do not believe he is a fluke…..
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 14, 2012 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
He currently brings more energy and "juice" to the PG position. I do not believe he is a fluke…
but who wants a PG that has to play all out all the time? There’s no margin for error in that scenario. I want players that can play at 90% effort and still be good and that’s something I didn’t see in Lin.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 14, 2012 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
personally i don't want players that don't try all of the time
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
personally i don't want players that don't try all of the time
it’s not about what you want it’s about margin for error. A great player playing at 90% has 10% left when he needs to turn it up a notch, a mediocre player playing at 100% has nothing left to add when he needs it.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 14, 2012 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
lin certainly doesn't seem like he has a problem turning it up when he needs to
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
lin certainly doesn't seem like he has a problem turning it up when he needs to
but he can’t produce without it turned up. That’s the big downside to overachievers
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 14, 2012 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
seems to produce just fine before he turns it up at the end
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
honestly what's your problem with lin
he’s clearly an nba talent, and you do nothing but constantly talk him down like he’s some scrub that is just getting lucky game after game after game. i mean come on “lin can’t produce without it turned up”. the dude keeps putting together solid games throughout the first 3 quarters and then turns it up for the 4th just about every game (minny is the exception). are you really saying he’s not producing in those first 3 quarters before he turns it up?
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
you do nothing but constantly talk him down like he’s some scrub that is just getting lucky game after game after game
I’m not talking him down, I just got a problem with the fanboyz who say we shoulda kept him when he wasn’t the same Lin then that he is today. Everyone acts like it was a big mistake to cut him when it made sense for us and houston too. He’s not following the normal NBA career arc so we can’t worry about not still having him. We gotta play the game the right way even if luck makes it not work out. We gotta move on and not worry about Lin till we play him then we gotta punish him for turning out better than we thought :>)
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 14, 2012 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
two sides
>> I just got a problem with the fanboyz who say we shoulda kept him when he wasn’t the same Lin then that he is today.
Doesn’t seem like a big stretch to suggest the guy who got cut in the preseason had most of the elements necessary to be the guy who’s playing now. The Warriors just didn’t recognize it or put him in the right situation to unlock it. It is too bad, but the Warriors must be feeling some shame or regret at this point or else they’re bloomin’ idiots.
It’s certainly a normal reaction to not want to dwell on regret, but barbs like “doesn’t turn it up until the end” is mixing up the two, probably in a way you don’t actually mean.
"Your curses do not compare to those of Houston fans or Detroit fans, and especially not to those of fans from the northside of Chicago. You are not Hamlet. You are Valerie Bertinelli. Your victim act is schlocky, and totally unconvincing. You fancy yourself tormented. You are merely insecure."
-- Scott Burton to Red Sox fans, 6/12/02
http://espn.go.com/magazine/burton_20020612.html
by achiappanza on Feb 14, 2012 11:42 PM PST up reply actions
And as far as "Bad Fanboy behavior goes"
I’d sure like to see a retraction from anyone who claimed that the Warriors signing him was at best a marketing stunt. Those tools have been proved wrong no matter what happens next.
"Your curses do not compare to those of Houston fans or Detroit fans, and especially not to those of fans from the northside of Chicago. You are not Hamlet. You are Valerie Bertinelli. Your victim act is schlocky, and totally unconvincing. You fancy yourself tormented. You are merely insecure."
-- Scott Burton to Red Sox fans, 6/12/02
http://espn.go.com/magazine/burton_20020612.html
by achiappanza on Feb 14, 2012 11:43 PM PST up reply actions
I’d sure like to see a retraction from anyone who claimed that the Warriors signing him was at best a marketing stunt.
they said it was a contributing factor that gave a cushion to any downside from the signing. He’d draw fans whether he worked out or not and they were correct about that .From a warriors marketing perspective the signing was a successful move till Lin broke out at NYK and gave them bad press but they could not have seen that coming :>)
This is really not a warriors story, it’s a story about the incredible luck of the NYK’s to be in the right place at the right time.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 14, 2012 11:59 PM PST up reply actions
Some of both
Sure, some people put it that way. IIRC, others were more cynical.
"Your curses do not compare to those of Houston fans or Detroit fans, and especially not to those of fans from the northside of Chicago. You are not Hamlet. You are Valerie Bertinelli. Your victim act is schlocky, and totally unconvincing. You fancy yourself tormented. You are merely insecure."
-- Scott Burton to Red Sox fans, 6/12/02
http://espn.go.com/magazine/burton_20020612.html
others were more cynical.
although performance wise they were justified in cutting him I’m surprised they didn’t recognize the pr benefits and keep him around another year for tickets sales.
I suspect the release was due to the distraction the Lin fans caused when they over emphasized every move he made and disrupted the game flow by cheering at the wrong times.Maybe lacob felt the other players deserved better and that Lin could do better away from all the hype and pressure, it could have been that he just decided it was best for both patties to part ways as the small amount of Lin’s contract really didn’t add much to the offer sheet. The only problem was they didn’t foresee how it would play out which I still can’t blame them for.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 15, 2012 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
it’s not about what you want it’s about margin for error. A great player playing at 90% has 10% left when he needs to turn it up a notch, a mediocre player playing at 100% has nothing left to add when he needs it.
who ever said lin has to be a great player? he’s playing on basically a minimum contract, and there are a ton of players in the league that couldn’t do what lin is doing even if they tried their hardest. i bet if lin played at 90%, he’d still be better than a lot of players. i mean clearly you would take a great player over lin. i’m pretty sure no one is arguing with you about that. but just because he’s not likely to be a “great player”, that doesn’t make him worthless like you seem to think it does.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
just because he’s not likely to be a "great player", that doesn’t make him worthless like you seem to think it does.
I never said he’s worthless, he’s worth a lot to NYK but was not to us. Big difference and really not our problem now, what he is is NYK’s problem ,we got our own players to worry about.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 14, 2012 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
How can 20pts, 8 assists, 3 or 4 rebounds and a win with the 2 best players out of the game be considered ineffective?
20 points on 24 shots + 7 FTAs is not effective. That’s losing basketball.
8 assists with 6 turnovers is not effective. That’s losing basketball.
You are happy to give up 20 points to a player in most games if they take that many shots to get it.
I’ve watched Lin play, too – and yes, what he’s been doing has, for the most part, been great … but if you pay attention to defense you see that he’s been defended incredibly poorly, and given a ton of space to operate. And the first time that didn’t happen, he was bad.
Have to agree with you on the assist/TO ratio which I believe Lin will work and improve radically as he moves on..good point…and I would have to backtrack that you were correct on the shooting effeciency in “that game” but over all without Lin in that game they would have lost I feel…but you were right about that one game…..you did say that it indicates your feeling that he will not be able to “keep it up” and I have to say that probably even Chris Paul could not “keep up” what Lin has been doing…however I would argue that he has shown that he has enough juice and potential to keep it up as a starter on a playoff level team…a personal opinion obviously as 6 games is a small sample set….now if Lin had a personality like Starbury then yes he could fade away as fast as he arrived but based on his overall history and smarts/work ethic/personality I feel ok taking this leap of faith..
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 15, 2012 6:09 PM PST up reply actions
Have to agree with you on the assist/TO ratio which I believe Lin will work and improve radically as he moves on
He struggles to keep his head up as he dribbles. This is an error in his fundamentals which is going to keep his TOs high unless he can fix them – when he’s asked to make complex decisions in traffic he’s not going to be able to because he won’t know where everybody is.
In other words, his TOs so far as not a function of a rookie adjustment period (nevermind that he’s not a rookie) but rather they’re flowing from a technical flaw. Now maybe he can fix that, but the simple truth is that it’s a major flaw which is going to have to be fixed if he’s going to be very good.
He also doesn’t seem to be able to go to his left very well.
and I have to say that probably even Chris Paul could not "keep up" what Lin has been doing
Uh, dude. Not including today’s games:
Chris Paul 11-12 Lin since entering the starting lineup:
pts/36 18.7 25.5
TS% .597 .573
ast/36 9.1 7.7
TOV/36 2.1 4.7
This is what’s so frustrating about the Lin hype.
Chris Paul for the season has been better than Lin has been during his hot streak, unless you’re a PPG obsessive.
It’s not particularly close. Who would rather have Lins numbers than Pauls?
So yes, Chris Paul could absolutely keep up what Lin is doing, because that’s what he’s done his whole career.
Also worth pointing out how Lin’s turnovers and scoring have gotten dramatically worse in the past couple of games as teams make him go left and get him to pass. He’s already “not keeping it up.”
Why couldn’t he have been our 3rd guard and played stretches with Curry? Lin PnR, Curry off a screen?
it was probably cause he didn’t have any kind of distance shot to keep the defense honest. I haven’t seen any of his knicks games but apparently he’s improved his shot or everyone is defending him wrong?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 12, 2012 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
I posted a scourting report in a fanshot after his first two games.
He’s been defended horrible. People were slow getting around the screen and giving him a lane.
Last night against Minny Rubio played him tight off the screen and he was bad.
he's a winner...
Lin played well first half, poorly 2nd half because he was totally spent/exhausted after playing all-out winning 4 1/2 games in a week. Rubio played good defense too.
Not really, but who cares?
Acie Law couldn’t shoot. Neither could Ish. As a back up he’d have been fine.
He is strong and big for a PG. There’s no reason we shouldn’t have given him a shot last season, instead of the acie law show.
yeah, especially in light of his size and ability to defend
I thought he was pretty much exactly what we needed at back-up PG
"I am very worried about the Warriors"
-brutusbrutus
by Duby Dub Dubs on Feb 13, 2012 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
"David Lee's double-doubles can be replaced. Andris' salary can be replaced."
Not so fast, cowboy. Hypothetically, sure. Realistically, not necessarily.
Lee’s not the best PF in the league, but he’s among the best. And double-double’s don’t grow on trees. Take a look at the list of 2×2 guys this year and tell me which one you expect to get if you didn’t have Lee:
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/double-doubles/sort/doubleDouble
They are few and far between. Sure, guys have some, but not many guys do it consistently. Would you swap out Humphries for Lee? I sure as hell wouldn’t.
Appreciate what we have. His defense isn’t great, but he’s a great team guy, solid passer, quality PnR guy, can score inside and out, and he brings 100% every night. He’s definitely a top-15 PF, maybe top-10. I’d personally take him over Boozer, Elton Brand or Josh Smith, for example. Lee is good, period. Slightly overpaid, maybe. But not Rashard/GilbertJoe Johnson overpaid. And if I’m overpaying a guy, I want to overpay a guy who brings 100% every night…
If we could pair him with a top-15 center this team would look totally different…
Not literally replace his double-doubles.
A double-double is a meaningless stat compared to the “W” stat. How many of the "W"s has David Lee been a part of? Not enough.
If the Knicks can win without Amare’s double-doubles, we can win without Lee’s double-doubles.
Trying to compose a team based on these kinds of statistics has failed us. Remember when Troy Murphy put up 15/11 for us? When Maggette put up 20ppg for us? Or when Adonal Foyle almost averaged 3 blocks per game?
We’re going to look back at Monta’s 20ppg and Lee’s 18/10 and realize that these kinds of stats don’t correlate to the W column. They’re just the modern day Maggette & Murph.
"We Deserve"
Lee >> Murph & Maggette
Maggette is a me-first player, and only does one thing: score. He’s a black hole. He’s a nice guys, but that doesn’t change his (negative) impact on the game.
Murph was Murph. Lee is much better, period.
My point is that Lee’s not part of the problem. And more importantly, good luck thinking it will be easy to find an upgrade.
You’re making it seem as if David Lee is someone we can build a team around. Of course our team would be better with a top-15 center, that has nothing to do with Lee’s play.
When you start making excuses for a player such as “well only if we put this kind of player next to him, he’d be a lot better”, then that player isn’t very good. If a player has weaknesses in his game which are so apparent that they need to be compensated by another player, then that player isn’t very good. It means they’re a “role player”.
You seem to forget that, before we acquired David Lee, we were just about as good as we are now. He hasn’t helped.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Feb 13, 2012 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Hmmmm so we win more games with Lee out and BW, AR or Udoh taking his place...
Dont think so..
Those were the alternatives with the exception of course being that mythical phantom PF out that was available that we did not get. Do not see the logic?
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 14, 2012 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
The Nuggets are now a better team after getting rid of Carmelo. They didn’t need to get an SF who “gets more stats” than Carmelo in order to win more basketball games.
We wouldn’t have to replace Lee with a PF who “gets more stats”, because those stats don’t correlate to winning basketball games.
And, for the record, I do think we’d win more games if Udoh took all of Lee’s minutes.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Feb 14, 2012 6:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d trade Lee for Josh Smith in a heartbeat.
by Uwe Blog on Feb 13, 2012 7:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I’d trade Lee for Josh Smith in a heartbeat?
and I’d trade Josh Smith for lebron in another heart beat so in 2 heartbeats we could become contenders. Success is so simple when you look at it that way.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 14, 2012 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
I’d trade Lee for Josh Smith in a heartbeat.
Ahhhhh nice example of those many years of comparing how we would trade our current PF for that mythical PF that we couldnt get. :-)
But lets get back to all those star centers that are available for Andris + Monta…
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 14, 2012 1:18 PM PST reply actions
Watching Lin blossom in NY is the final straw
thank you everyone for making my long time here at GSOM fun and informative. I’ve been watching the Warriors for way too long without seeing any real improvement in this team, and frankly, life is too short.
I am abandoning ship and rowing towards better seas and clearer skies (OKC). My frustration with the front office and ownership is beyond any quantifiable measure and I am left feeling abandoned and resentful. My love of basketball will continue, but like a bad marriage, I can’t believe that I’m saying this, I’m throwing in the towel.
Tomorrow’s game against Portland will be the first game that I will not watch or set to record on my DVR. If you knew me personally, that’s a pretty big deal.
Live free or die hard my fellow Dubs fans. Your resound commitment to this team is ultimately stronger than mine.
I wish I never had to sleep.
Hope you find happiness.
Gotta admit once the amnesty was used on Bell, my frustration with the Warriors hit a turning point. New ownership but still suffering from the same clown moves. I’ve prepared myself for another decade of missing playoffs. Still rooting for the Warriors but spending much more time watching other teams and I’ve already missed more Warriors games this season than the last two seasons combined.
Don’t even get bothered by Warrior losses anymore. Still hoping the Warriors turn it around but now I’m kinda numb to the losses so it doesn’t seem that bad at all.
Eh. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You’re quitting on the team because they didn’t forsee the development of a player that nobody but Evanz forsaw, who might not actually be as good as everybody seems to think he is?
Seriously – this is not the first time a guy who nobody ever really gave two thoughts to turned in on for five or ten games.
Lin may well turn into a quality NBA player. But if you watch the games with a scout’s eyes, you’ll see that the book is already being written on him:
He’s not effective scoring if you force him to his left. He’s going to miss a ton of shots if you get up in his face off the pick. He doesn’t do a job keeping his head up meaning that he’s going to turn the ball over a lot looking to break doubles off the pick if the pass he expects isn’t there.
It’s a great story, and a lot of fun, but we have people calling him the next great point guard? Somebody on GSOM recently posted that he’s the best point guard in the league right now, which is ridiculous.
He’s a guy who’s been shredding terrible P&R defense, who’s limitations have already been exposed.
There are plenty of reasons to be fed up with the Warriors after the last 20 years. Jeremy Lin being who he is – whatever that is – is not one of them. There isn’t a single GM in the league who saw that coming. Mike D’antonni didn’t see that coming.
Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good.
by Ronaldinho on Feb 15, 2012 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I am abandoning ship and rowing towards better seas and clearer skies (OKC).
why not just switch to scaramento, you can drive over there for games ? Okla gives off the bad smell of dead sonics :>)
the dubs are a hard habit to kick so it’s more likely you’ll return than it was that Lin would turn into linsanity..
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 15, 2012 12:26 AM PST reply actions
I sure was wrong about Lin
I take it all back. He’s a stud. I was wrong. Go JLin!
Sorry, the dude can play. The W’s would be 10 games better with Lin at PG and Curry and Ellis on other teams. Fact.

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