Tyler, Jenkins, Lin, and LACOB
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 11:16 AM PST
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PrintDo you ever wonder if Lacob is reeling so hard from the loss of Lin that he is going to fail to even learn the lesson? Or, is it that he still does not get it?? Lacob has the direct responsibility to make it clear to Mark Jackson to play our rookies!
I have this sinking feeling that in our blind pursuit of seeking the 8th seed that we will AGAIN go through another year and not really know what we have in our rookies. Its half over and we have only brief glimpses JUST LIKE WE DID WITH LIN. And some of those glimpses look good and others bad. But its half over! At what point will the philosophy change here?
New York was willing to suck even more for a few games in order to evaluate Lin. The lesson to learn is that by gambling on testing a player you MIGHT lose more or you might go on a 7 game winning streak as your reward for your dangerous gamble and find yourself in the playoff hunt after being way out of it...
The only draw back is that we find out Tyler and Jenkins suck and have no legit reason to be on a NBA floor and we diminish thier trade "upside" around the league by proving they suck. But, they were both second rounders so, how much "upside" were they supposed to have anyway??
New York found out about Lin because they were in a desperate situation. Cant we learn from this?
I think we already know what Nate Robinson will do for us! SO, why the hell play the final play of a game on the line with our backup pg?? Nate may have a tiny bit more upside left but we pretty much know, he is going to make a fine backup pg for us in the future maybe. Keith Smart did this sooooooo much last year with Law and Bell. We already know what they had, and we lost the chance to see what Lin has.. WE NEED TO THINK FOR THE FUTURE <LACOB~~~IM LOOKING AT YOU!~~~
LACOB, please learn your lessons and improve this team, I/WE are die hards and will one day celebrate a warriors championship and we might be old men by then but it will be soooooo damn sweeet.. Just make it sooner than later!
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I took a duff beer cuz i wrote the post... ahhhhhh
My overall sentiment is very clear tho, I feel its in our best interest guys, if we can just be willing to step out of the comfort zone and play these guys.. We will be calling for theier heads as many did with Klay at first but give them a month at leasst!!!!!
New York was willing to suck even more for a few games in order to evaluate Lin.
they had no choice , they were out of guards and Lin was the bottom of the bucket.
We never got anywhere near that desperate.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 16, 2012 11:40 AM PST reply actions
He was in the same situation as he was here and in Houston for a while. Like Skep said, he only got the opportunity because the other guards were hurt. He got meaningful minutes against the Nets and he was able to shine. The Knicks were seriously considering cutting Lin before the deadline. Lin excelled at the right time. He got his contract guaranteed for the rest of this season (and will be restricted) and they’ve been having a remarkable run since then.
ok, so shouldnt we pretend we are out of options and play our rookies in order to not let a Linister situation like that happen again?
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
play our rookies in order to not let a Linister situation like that happen again?
A linister situation is not gonna happen again in a 100 years so don’t worry about it. That’s why I didn’t worry about it when we cut him and I’d not worry about it if we had it to do over again. Lacob and company makes lots of mistakes but Lin was not one, they did the right thing and it just didn’t work out as it should have. sometimes life sucks but it goes on till it don’t.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 16, 2012 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So, "doing the right thing" was trying thier best to make the playoffs last year?
Funny how Lin maybe have been the one to get us in teh playoffs ironically..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
No, because rookies blowing up like Jeremy Lin doesn't happen very often.
It’s similar to expecting 2nd round picks to turn into a Monta Ellis or Manu Ginobili: Not impossible, but not likely to happen. You can’t make your decisions based on the exception, rather than the norm, but you at least keep an eye out for it.
by IQofaWarrior on Feb 16, 2012 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well , a simple way to keep your eye out for it is to simply play them with starter minutes and find out.
At least you will see flashes of potential if you give them a chance long enough to work through the jitters and gel with the other starters.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
Lin probably would not have the same juice if he had played a full game his rookie year.
However…playing our rookies major minutes in order to tank for the the draft appeals to me emotionally but total tanking is not really a realistic endeavor.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 20, 2012 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
total tanking is not really a realistic endeavor.
isn’t there a saying about “dream the impossible dream” or something to that effect?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 20, 2012 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
yesterdays loss?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 16, 2012 9:40 PM PST up reply actions
Throwing Jenkins and Tyler in to major minutes is not necessarily the best way to develop them.
Honestly, it’s probably one of the worst. You might end up destroying their confidence and making them less valuable than they otherwise might be.
by Ronaldinho on Feb 16, 2012 12:00 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
then why wouldnt that apply to greg monroe?
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
monroe was more nba ready than those jenkins and tyler
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
his skill set was good enough to contribute immediately
offensively at least
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
I have seen Jenkins make some really good moves here and there..
And he basically on those moves schooled a couple real NBA guys. Not sure where tyler needs to be yet, he may need to be a pf but i have seen him smoothly hit a midrange shot… and with his hops he should be gettin alleyoops from curry and getting some nasty dunks and paired with udoh might make a nice defensive presence!
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
and with his hops he should be gettin alleyoops from curry and getting some nasty dunks and paired with udoh might make a nice defensive presence!
This all assumes he’s in the right place on the court consistently, which is a very dubious assumption to make.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
nothin like a couple years practicing in professional games. That is kinda how i view our team.
We are basically practicing (when we play our games) for the championship in 3 years. Instead of thinking of it as a game.Its just realtime practice. The best way to be prepared for this game is to have everyone ready for meaningful minutes and real contribution to the 2015, 2016 playoffs. Not alot of pressure now, just game plans and new strategies and fundamentals and review studying.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
Except that it's not.
You can call a game a practice, but that doesn’t change things. When a practice goes badly, you blow the whistle, stop things, spend some time teaching and go back out there. You can’t do that in a game.
There’s going to be plenty of real practice time between now and the playoffs three years from now. You don’t need to manufacture it, especially when the cost is one of establishing professional discipline and culture.
You dont always need to blow the whistle and stop things tho..
And i think there is things players benefit quickly is that 1 they get over the spotlight shock,
when a player makes a mistake 9 times out of 10 they already know it.
They dont need to always be stopped but rather allowed to play through it. I dont see the harm in addressing it at halftime or during a timeout or even after the game (or all of those)
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
Have you ever had a teaching job of any kind? Even informally?
The simple truth is that positive feedback is the best learning tool there is. Somebody does something, sees a good result … they do more of it.
People often make the mistake of thinking negative feedback is more useful, but it’s actually been tested. It can be hard to notice because of regression to the mean (if I have an unsually good performance, my next try is likely to be worse, even if I’m improving).
This isn’t just differing philosophies. This has been studied and it’s verifiable.
And when you’re thrown into a situation you’re not prepared for, you don’t get positive feedback. You get lots and lots of negative feedback. In this case, the feedback of basketball plays that don’t work.
There is a role for negative feedback, but people have studied this, and it turns out “sink or swim” is generally a really bad way to get people to improve.
have you ever played basketball on a team?
when u are on a team and you get thrown in for 5 minutes it goes by in a flash, ur adrenaline is still pumping.. Imagine this is u and u get ur 5 minutes and u make a bonehead move that u KNOW is wrong and u looked dumb doing it and the coach doesnt play you now for the next 3 weeks.. How does that help you improve?
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 22, 2012 6:08 PM PST up reply actions
That strategy is going to create a lot of bad habits. Just knowing that you made a mistake doesn’t mean it’ll get corrected – if you keep making the mistake, it becomes a habit. Bad habits are hard to break once they’re formed. It might mean taking bad shots, jump passing, not making the right cut/being in the right position….lots of potential for bad habits when you just play/scrimmage.
by Missing Barry on Feb 22, 2012 1:27 PM PST up reply actions
By the way, if you want to see an example of bad habits just look at Biedrins. He’s broken because the things he used to do well – things like move well without the ball…..well, now he’s developed bad habits and doesn’t do those things regularly. He can’t just turn on a switch and they all of a sudden come back now that he’s healthy – he developed bad habits and now they’re here to stay.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2012 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
Monroe was a top-10 draft pick.
Jenkins and Tyler were second rounders.
No particularly reason to think you handle guys in those situations the same.
It doesnt take long.. The only thing you risk really is not making the playoffs or in our case ~retaining our draft pick
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
The only thing you risk really is not making the playoffs or in our case ~retaining our draft pick
Ah…that explains your view. You’re really missing the nuances of coaching here. You risk a lot more than that. You risk alienating your veterans. You risk creating a losing environment. You risk undermining the coaches authority. Destroying the players motivation. You risk creating an atmosphere other players won’t want to join (if I’m a veteran role player and I see guys like me losing minutes to rookies who aren’t ready, why would I want to sign with that team…?)….no, coaching isn’t that simple.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What MB said.
The biggest problem the Warriors have right now is our losing culture. That, more than anything else, is what is keeping free agents from wanting to sign here.
We have to establish that we’re working hard to get better. Playing unprepared rookies doesn’t do that.
Furthermore, look at Washington. They have a potentially good player (McGee) who wants out, badly. Why? They’re a losing team. They play lousy team ball – horrible BBIQ everywhere, every man for himself.
When you have potentially-good young players like McGee, you want them to be excited for what they’re a part of. You want them developing good professional habits because they work alongside guys who have good professional habits every day, and they see that hard work and fundamentals get you playing time.
We want Curry, Klay, and Epke – the young players we have who are ALREADY good – to want to stick around. That means they need to feel that the team is moving in the right direction. Cycling through a bunch of unprepared rookies is almost guaranteed to make Curry want to jump ship as soon as he can.
You have to build a foundation, and that foundation is made of professionalism and fundamentals. Without it, you can cycle through dozens of young players and you’ll be nothing but a developmental team for the rest of the league.
by Ronaldinho on Feb 17, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have been advocating for tanking this season to keep our pick.
But you’re right, and I am glad Lacob has the same idea. Sure, Lacob wants this year’s pick just as bad as anybody else, but it would be at the expense of the culture we are trying to build.
I still want that pick, but not at the expense of a culture change.
how did OKC do it?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
By getting some really talented young players. :(
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Seattle's five seasons before drafting Durant:
They won 31, 35, 52, 37, and 40 games.
If you want to argue that they tanked for a season or two once they already had Durant you could make that case. They threw Durant to the fire and only won 20 games his rookie year. They let Durant and Westbrook learn the ropes on the go and only won 23 games the year after that.
Basically, they said, “Holy c**p, we lucked into one of the great players of his generation, and he’s locked to us for five years. How do we make ourselves as good as possible in five years?”
That resulted in trading Allen and the sign-and-trade that send Lewis to Orlando.
Those deals as well as the fact that they were a young team that had just traded away the bulk of its veteran leadership resulted in high draft picks than landed Westbrook and Harden and the pick that got them Ibaka, as well as Jeff Green who later was turned into Kendrick Perkins.
That’s their five players who are getting the most minutes – and they were all acquired AFTER they lucked into the second pick despite not being that terrible the year before.
They won 31, 35, 52, 37, and 40 games
What are you citing the wins backwards like that?
They won 52 in 2005, 2 years before drafting Durant. Then they won 35, 31 (then drafted Durant), 20, 23. Then they made a huge jump, after 4 years of losing, and two really, really bad ones.
True, they got lucky with Durant, but those two terrible years did not stop him or the team from becoming a great team a few years later.
You’re really worried about the effect winning 20 games as opposed to 30 would have?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
What are you citing the wins backwards like that?
Not trying to be tricky. Just counting backwards.
My point is that those two really bad years made sense as part of a plan to get really good given that they already had Durant.
We don’t have a player of Durant’s caliber. Therefore, it makes more sense to compare us to them pre-Durant. What were they doing?
To compare a reasonable strategy for us to a reasonable strategy for Seatle-the-moment-they-got-Durant makes no sense.
We don’t have a player of Durant’s caliber.
Right. Who are we worried about protecting from losing then?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
YOu asked me how OKC did it. I told you.
At the risk of repeating myself, I’ll say that we’re trying to build a winning culture.
OKC had the luxury of having a five year window to get all the pieces in place. We don’t, because we have players with value (most specifically Curry, but also Monta) who probably won’t stick around through an intentional multi-year rebuild with no end in sight. And they’re both up in two years.
I’m not sure I really care if anyone on this team leaves, though. That’s the thing.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
Except that players leaving without bringing value in return is not a path to improvement.
I honestly think a big part of the reason we’ve been stuck where we are since “We Believe” is that there are very few players who have left and brought back equal-or-greater value.
I won’t be heartbroken about any of our current players leaving, either … but if they’re going to go, they need to bring back fair value or we’re never going to get better.
And it is very hard to get fair value for a disgruntled player.
it might be addition by subtraction
honestly at this point the best thingfor this team is to just dump some players and move forward
we’re not going to magically get back a lot in return for Monta or Lee, we’ll be lucky to find any team that wants to take them off our hands
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
I think Monta might be a player who has a sneaky amount of value.
He’s the sort of player who is habitually over-valued (high PPG, nothing else) and even some GMs who are aware of his limitations might feel that they’d be less of an issue on another team.
(And they might be right, FWIW.)
Lee is a tougher sell, but, again, if he could consistently put up more points (because the team used him better) his trade value would rise.
You don’t often go wrong when assuming that some GM, somewhere, is going to put way too much stock in PPG.
The Warriors are bad because...
The don’t have a Center or Point Guard. They have a team of SG’s and SF’s and 2 PF’s.
If they had D Howard and CP3 and a cast of scrubs, they’d be a better team regardless of attitude.
It’s strickty a talen issue. The W’s don’t have much talent. A bunch of average to slightly above average players. Curry is only slightly above average. Not even an All-Star. He’s easily replaceable.
Seems like you’re directly contradicting yourself here. First you say the issue is PG/C specifically, then you say it’s an overall lack of talent. I think you’re mostly wrong on the first count and right on the money on the second.
If they had D Howard and CP3 and a cast of scrubs, they’d be a better team regardless of attitude.
Clearly. And if they had a couple of small forwards named LeBron and Durant and a cast of scrubs, they’d be a better team regardless of attitude. How many games do you think they win (in an 82-game season) with a starting five of:
Curry or Monta
LeBron
Durant
Udoh or Lee
Biedrins or Kwame
65? 60? 55 at minimum? That alone should tell you that their issue isn’t purely one of position.
It’s [strictly] a [talent] issue. The W’s don’t have much talent. A bunch of average to slightly above average players.
Bingo.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 20, 2012 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
i mean,, its a interesting point you bring up here, which is the best way. I feel like its the opposite of what u say really.
And I respect ur opinion and all.. I just think that NOT putting them in hurts them more actually, cuz it basically tells them they are not worthy. It is very demoralizing to sit on the bench and watch your team lose and to think if coach put me in we would REALLY lose..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
But if they're not worthy, why should we treat them like they are?
This isn’t preschool where everybody gets a participation medal.
There should be clear guidelines about what is expected in order to get PT, and when the players meet those expectations, they should get PT.
And if they don’t meet those expectations, the coaches need to explain to them WHY they aren’t meeting expectations and what they need to do in order to meet them.
So if a guy isn’t playing, he should know, “Coach isn’t playing me because I don’t understand my defensive rotations” or “Coach isn’t playing me because I’m not boxing out well,” or whatever. So he knows exactly what he needs to work on.
(That last thing is something Nellie was terrible at over the years. Not even just recently with Randolph and Harrington, but going back to his previous stint as well. A young player would have a good game, and Nellie would be asked about it in a press conference and mumble vague things about PT).
But really we dont know what they are capable of until they get the chance.
Tyler wanted to make all the teams PAY for passing him up… I think we are just throwing water onto that fire…
And yes, I like that about letting the guys know WHY they arent seeing play time.. but, i think a sort of “baptism” needs to happen and that is to get real play time, get over the glitz and glam of the spotlight, then make your mistakes, and then study yourself and then EARN that play time… That I think would be a faster way to get these guys to develope.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree.
With most players, you can tell a lot based on what you can see in practice, in drills, and in film meetings.
If what you mean is that we – you and I – can’t tell, then you’re right. But I think you meant “we” more generally – as in, the team doesn’t know. And that’s wrong.
Sure, there are exceptions. But they’re pretty rare.
I also think that the players need to know the coaches have their backs: they’re not going to throw me in there when I’m not ready, they’re not going to put me in a position to embarass myself. They know how fickle fans are (I mean, criminy, just look at GSOM – which I consider to be a group of people much smarter, on average, than most fans. But we had people calling Klay a bust two games into the regular season). A lot can go wrong.
I mean, wasn’t Biedrins’ fall from good player to whatever the hell he is now precipitated by him playing when he really shouldn’t have been out there? Sure, that was an injury thing, not a development thing, but are they that different?
Confidence is hugely important to top athletes, and the last thing you want to do is put a seed in a guy’s mind, “Holy crap these guys are good and I don’t even know what I’m doing.” Once a player starts feeling lost, it can be hard to pull them back.
SO they should go in knowing that they’re as prepared as they can be.
Well, I guess we have two different philosophies of how to do it
which is fun cuz there never is one way to do things.
I just think the that these young “dogs” need to be released and play the game they love they wont be too embarassed for long.. BUt if they only get one minute here and one there and make a mistake they get to think on that for game after game on the bench.. I dont think that is healthy for a dogs confidence . I just watched the dog whisperer j/k
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
You might end up destroying their confidence
I don’t buy that. That’s what coaches say as an excuse not to play rookies. You give them confidence by playing them and trusting them. Klay has confidence because coach played him through a tough stretch. The cream rises to the top. If they can’t handle it, then so be it. Better to know sooner rather than later.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
by Evanz on Feb 16, 2012 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Always depends on the situation. Each individual is different – gotta evaluate how ready they are, how they’re going to react, how they fit in with the future of the team, how much the team needs their contributions, their role now and in the future…lots of factors to consider. Development is a tricky thing, and probably not too well understood.
by Missing Barry on Feb 16, 2012 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
I’d add to the already complex equation that it matters how much a guy’s play would hinder his teammates. Toss in a point guard to get major minutes ‘just to see’ and you run the risk of having a guy out there who is so inept that the other 4 guys on the court get no benefit from playing. Sit him and you run the risk of him not ever getting a feel for the speed of the NBA.
Some things can get overly complicated it seems.
I explained the other night to my son that the warriors missed out on Lin becase we gave starter minutes to the old crappy guys instead of the young unproven guy, even the young proven guy has a nice lookin shot, plays defense hard , and isnt afraid to take it to the hole.. And my son, who has zero NBA knowledge really said wow that sounds really dumb.
Sometimes the obvious is maybe over looked because its too simple
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
Overly complicated? I’m not sure about that. But yes, managing 15 people does have its complications, even more so when they’re highly paid NBA players. It’s the reality of the situation. Keith Smart wasn’t a good evaluator of talent – we can point to a few cases where that’s clear, not just Lin – and that’s a problem. However, that doesn’t mean you can just simplify coaching and ignore the whole managing the team portion of the job.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
The problem with it being that simple is that it's not really true.
Lin looked lost offensively when he was with the Warriors. He didn’t get it done in short minutes. If you look at how and why he’s been successful in New York, you’ll see how he’s succeeding because of what’s going on with the D’Antonni offense in general, and working the P&R with Tyson Chandler in particular.
So there’s actually very reason to think that if we had kept running Jeremy Lin out there, he would have done what he’s been doing in New York.
Jeremy got his shot in the perfect team at the perfect time for him. It wasn’t just about giving him playing time.
I would agree with that...
Jeremy got his shot in the perfect team at the perfect time for him. It wasn’t just about giving him playing time.
Loosing major market team…both stars are out….no PG left but Lin….desperate coach worried about his job/willing to let Lin play through mistakes = nothing to loose….Lin obviously ready to shine…exceptional center looking for the ball/pick and roll system…unappreciated subs ready to take advantage of the minutes = unexpected wins…the perfect storm.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 20, 2012 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
the perfect storm.
the perfect storm on steroids.Hard to believe all the things that had to line up to create linsanity.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 20, 2012 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
If these guys got it, then they will rise to the top. I 100% agree with you.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:18 PM PST up reply actions
They can rise to the top in practice, too.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
in a condensed season, not that much pactice time
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
I don't know if this should be Lacob's call
How much do you want an owner to be meddling in issues about playing time? Do you really want a Jerry Jones or Al Davis type owner that won’t leave the coaching decisions to the coach? I doubt Jed York is giving Jim Harbaugh coaching advice. The best owners are the ones that hire good people and allow them to make the decisions on the court/field.
Obviously Smart handled Lin very poorly. Charlie Bell and Acie Law were not good NBA players and Lin definitely deserved some more minutes. I think Nate is far better than both of those guys so the comparison isn’t great. I think you are giving the Knicks way too much credit. They played Lin as a last resort and were very close to cutting him. They had already lost 11 out of their last 13, so they couldn’t really do much worse. Toney Douglas and Mike Bibby were the alternatives.
I don’t mind Nate getting minutes ahead of Jenkins right now. Do you think Jenkins can come into a game cold and hit three 3 pointers in a 2 minute span like Nate did last night? I’m not sure how much Jenkins is gonna help this team, seeing as how they have decent backcourt depth. He might be able to help a little, but probably just marginally at best. I wouldn’t mind seeing them giving some more minutes to Tyler. One of their major deficiencies is rebounding and he is a guy that could conceivably help us in that department. Hopefully, he gets some more minutes as the season progresses. It would be nice to see him play for some significant stretches.
I think both of these guys are going to be with the team next year, so I’m not overly worried about them getting huge minutes this year. I believe they are both have guaranteed contracts for next season, so we will find out what they are capable of eventually.
I don’t know if this should be Lacob’s call
Exactly this. Lacob should not be involved in this decision at all. That’s what the coaching staff is hired to do. The owner absolutely should not be going out and undermining the coaches in one of the main areas of responsibility for them. If you don’t think the coach is doing things right, get a better coaching staff. The owner as coach, though? Um, no, no thanks at all.
by Missing Barry on Feb 16, 2012 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, I do agree that I would hate an overzealous owner meddling in all the affairs of the team like an AL Davis
and it might stem new problems of the coach then differing to the owner all the time … It should be a Warrior developemental POLICY that we sacrafice 20 games out of every season in order for our youth movement. We may not lose all those games.. We may win more… But at least we find out what we got. Hey, it would help us come tradedeadlines to have assets
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree with that policy altogether. We should be able to evaluate what we have in practice.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Im not giving the knicks too much credit , I think they got lucky to be so desperate.
About the guaranteed contracts, can we release them next year if we dont like them?
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
What makes you believe that Riley has this kind of power?
I don’t think Riley has that much say at this point… if Lacob is too conservative to shake things up, then it doesn’t matter who they bring in as GM.
by warriorsablaze on Feb 16, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Riley must go....but otherwise, I see no reason why Tyler isn't getting more minutes at the backup 4 if Udoh is backing up the 5.
Warriors management/coaching is a bit lost.
"That was very funny about the old man basketball skills. One is lucky to escape injury when playing against those crafty, crusty sumbitches. And it’s just demoralizing when they demonstrate yet again how to use the backboard from range." - Charlie Custer
by SmittytheCutman on Feb 16, 2012 1:32 PM PST reply actions
Have you considered the possibility that maybe management/coaching isn’t so lost as much as all the stuff you and I, as fans, don’t see is the real reason? Tyler has played 56 total NBA minutes in his life. On the other hand, the coaches see him in practice every day, interact with him constantly, get to see how hard he’s working, how well he understands the game/his responsibilities and what the team is trying to do….seems kind of absurd to me to think that what you see (all 56 minutes of it) somehow clearly outweighs all that stuff….
by Missing Barry on Feb 16, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
If we didn't all ignore that absurdity....
…. we’d have nothing to post about on here. :)
by warriorsablaze on Feb 16, 2012 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I mean it’s one thing to talk about someone like Udoh who we’ve now been able to watch play 1500+ NBA minutes, and we’ve gotten a chance to see his full game. With Tyler we pretty much might as well watch a highlight video and pretend that gives us insight into how good he is.
by Missing Barry on Feb 16, 2012 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
I just think its a needed expense. To be willing to lose a few games in the name of developing/finding out talent levels.
It doesnt have to be at the same time. Tyler can have his hayday for ten games as our starting center for a full 36 or until fouling out and they Jenkins for ten games
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
You shouldn’t need to do that in games, though. If the coaches are doing their job, the only ones finding out about talent levels from your plan are the fans.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
practice against other Warriors players only tells you so much
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
It should still tell you more than enough about a guys skills and ability to contribute.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Practice doesn’t present you with the same environment as a real game setting. It is just natural for people to play harder and with more heart when you’re infront of tens of thousands of people and thousands more watching at home with a real game on the line.
Practice just isn’t the same.
If you’re an NBA player and you aren’t getting much PT and you can’t bring yourself to practice hard to earn it, I have nothing to say. You have only yourself to blame. It’s an opportunity to show what you can do on the basketball court – what more can you ask for?
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
If you’re an NBA player and you aren’t getting much PT and you can’t bring yourself to practice hard to earn it, I have nothing to say.
You think Lin didn’t practice hard enough?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
Not at all. I have little doubt Lin practiced hard – he wouldn’t get to where he is today if he didn’t. I’m also very confident he would be showing the same skills in practice as he did in games. The solution to the problem of missing Lin isn’t to just throw all your players in games to see what they do – it’s to do a better job of evaluating them in practice. That could mean a lot of things – maybe in practice Lin wasn’t ever given a role he thrived in (for example, if we never ran PnR in practice, how would the coach know he could run it like he has in NY so far?), so maybe you experiment by putting guys in different situations in practice more. Or maybe the coaches just didn’t see the skills despite Lin showing them, in which case the organization probably needs new coaches. But this whole “throw them into the games cause I want to see what they can do!” idea is a kneejerk, silly reaction that isn’t at all the best solution.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree
game situations are not practice
ask Iverson
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
Practice situations are still basketball. You have every opportunity to show what you can do. How much Allen Iverson, who got to show people what he could do all the time, cared about it is irrelevant. Think he might have a different take on it now, if he was fighting for a roster spot?
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
Iverson had earned the right to mail it in in practice.
Lots of times veteran players take practices easy to help their bodies heal.
Iverson mailing it in in practice was probably still bad for his teams.
Sure, it's not the same.
But it’s still pretty normal for young players to have to prove themselves in practice before getting game time.
I mean, the fact that a guy isn’t getting it done in practice is hardly an argument for playing him, right?
You have to remember that even though NBA teams don’t do very many full-speed practices (particularly not in this season) they do a lot of walk throughs and drills … and if you’re a young player trying to earn PT, that’s your chance to show you deserve it.
If you don’t … “but, but … I’ll do it in the games!” is not much of a defense.
wasn't Jeremy Lin practicing hard earlier in the season?
so did he stop practicing hard?
what about Jenkins? What happened to his pt?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
whoops!
I meant Jeremy Tyler
damn
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
What’s the end point you’re driving at right now?
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
the way I read R’s post was that if a player isn’t trying in practice, why would he do it in the game. But reading it again, I’m not sure what he meant by “getting it done”.
What does it mean for a rookie to “get it done”? Rookies are generally less productive than non-rookies, so I think the most you can expect is that they play hard. If they do that, they should earn playing time.
In theory, you drafted them or signed them because you though they have potential. If they have potential and the practice hard, and they’re on a bad team, my philosophy would be to give them real playing time and see what they’ve got in game situations. But you guys don’t agree.
I think if we had done that with Jeremy Lin – played him more last season, we might have done things differently. I’d say it’s too late, but it’s not too late to avoid the same mistake with Jenkins and Tyler. Let them play and get better. What exactly do we have to lose right now?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
If they have potential and the practice hard, and they’re on a bad team, my philosophy would be to give them real playing time and see what they’ve got in game situations.
I actually do agree with that. “Who’s the better player right now” is not the only factor in whether a guy “earns” PT. If a guy is practicing hard, if he’s doing what the coaches tell him, if he has a string of good practices, if he’s improving…those are all reasons to give him additional PT. A coach is managing a team of up to 15 players, and his job is to keep the whole team motivated. You can’t just reward the best players for their talent over and over. You have to give the lesser ones rewards for exceeding expectations at times, too, and give the talented ones reasons to stay motivated and continue working hard.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
If they have potential and the practice hard, and they’re on a bad team, my philosophy would be to give them real playing time and see what they’ve got in game situations. But you guys don’t agree.
I don’t agree. You put them in when they show in practice that they understand what they’re supposed to be doing well enough to not get in the way. They know the plays. They know the rotations. Their individual technique, as demonstrated in practice, is good enough that you don’t worry about them constantly making fundamental errors or embarassing themselves.
I think if we had done that with Jeremy Lin – played him more last season, we might have done things differently.
Looking at how Lin is being successful, I don’t particularly think he would have had the success he’s having there here. The D’Antonni offense and Tyson Chandler/Amare Stoudamire as rollers in the PnR are why Lin is being so successful.
I’d say it’s too late, but it’s not too late to avoid the same mistake with Jenkins and Tyler.
Jenkins and Tyler are RFA this offseason. They’re our if we want them. There is no urgency. Remember, the team only cut Lin to free up cap room to make a free agency offer – not because they didn’t believe in him. (They said they wanted him back, but IIRC he didn’t clear waivers so we COULDN’T bring him back).
I think that Evanz and I (i should speak mostly for myself here tho just in case)
are not afraid to view gametime AS our practice. This “practice” will basically and ultimately be used to see who earns time in teh playoffs in a few years. Lets just make a 3 year plan to get there.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:16 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure what your point is.
I never suggested Lin wasn’t practicing hard.
Rather, I merely suggested that he wasn’t getting it done in practice. (Or, our coach was an idiot. Also a possibility).
But I suspect he wasn’t getting it done in practice because he wasn’t getting it done in games, either. He looked lost on offense.
I have no idea what Tyler is showing in practice, therefore I don’t consider myself qualified to say whether or not it’s appropriate to put him in games. And I think it’s absurd for others on this board who know as little about what goes on in practices as I do to suggest that somehow putting him in would solve our problems or even be particularly relevatory about who he’s eventually going ot be.
But I suspect he wasn’t getting it done in practice because he wasn’t getting it done in games, either. He looked lost on offense.
As many rookies do. One thing Lin was doing well was driving to the basket and getting to the line, not coincidentally, still doing that well.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
Coincidentally, also something our team needs. More head scratching why Keith Smart didn’t realize this?
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
More head scratching why Keith Smart didn’t realize this?
maybe all Lin showed in practice was his mastery of turn overs? Smart did say he needed to develop a shot so Lin showed something.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 17, 2012 8:06 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe, on the other hand, Lin didn’t just develop his PnR skills out of nowhere. Smart may not have put him in a situation in practice that he’d succeed in – he sure didn’t in games.
by Missing Barry on Feb 18, 2012 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
I was just very upset at how Smart and now Jacksons
minutes distribution just seems to be backward thinking in nature rather than thinking of the future. (which is kinda a problem when u think about how every coach we get after Nelson is just trying to keep thier jobs rather than develope youth)
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely won’t disagree on Smart. Don’t think he’s a good coach, though he does have a few good qualities that I do think make him an ok fit in Sactown.
by Missing Barry on Feb 22, 2012 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
they saw Lin, too
maybe they don’t know as much as you think?
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
Sure. On the other hand, they also saw Charlie Bell, B Wright, Jeff Adrien, Gadzuric, Thornton, Carney, Law, Amundson, Bell, Coby Karl, Cartier Martin, and Mikki Moore (just listing guys from the past two full seasons that didn’t get much PT for us), too.
I’ve actually been thinking about this topic a lot because of Lin. I think Kobe got it right when he said, “Players playing that well don’t usually come out of nowhere. It seems like they come out of nowhere, but if you can go back and take a look, his skill level was probably there from the beginning. It probably just went unnoticed.” Chandler talked about Lin being able to do all that stuff in practice, but even without that you gotta know he was able to do this stuff in practice. Talent doesn’t just magically appear from nowhere. Clearly multiple NBA coaches missed on Lin, and I’m not sure why. How did they miss that? Either they misevaluated him, or their practices weren’t giving them an accurate assessment of him. If I was a coach, these thoughts are the kinds of things that would keep me up at night trying to fix. Something clearly needs fixing – it’s one thing to pass on a guy before he’s on your team, but once you have him in practice day in and day out, there’s very little excuse. Dantoni basically lucked into him right before they cut him. That’s a problem, and Smart whiffed on him, too. Definitely an organizational issue that needs solving.
That said…I think you’d be hard pressed to make the case that the coaches are wrong much more often than they’re right about borderline guys. For Lin’s individual case, they were obviously wrong. For Tyler’s specific, can you give me a single reason to think they are? Are we really going to sit here and say his 56 minutes has really shown he deserves time, especially with his lack of evidence pre-NBA?
by Missing Barry on Feb 16, 2012 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Tyler seems to be unready.
This is the place where advanced stats are actually useful. If he doesn’t seem ready, and the advanced stuff doesn’t show a different picture – eh. It’s when the eyeball test and the stat measures seem to tell different stories that someone needs to look closer.
But the psychology pretty simple – the assumption is you get what you pay for. I suspect Adrien got caught in the same thing – in limited action, he was better than Lou – but we paid for Lou.
He's a one-legged skateboarding card sharp who knows the secret of the alien invasion. She's a transdimensional belly-dancing cab driver from beyond the grave. They fight crime!
So just how are Tyler and Jenkins performing so far in the advanced stats?
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
haven't looked at them
but i would guess that the sample size is much too small to draw any kind of conclusions anyways
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
I just looked at some stats on Jenkins and Tyler and
Tyler looks like he would have 9 fouls per 36 but outside of that is close to a double double and shooting 50%
Jenkins is like 10 and 6 per 36 with just one turnover , overall that says he takes care of the ball and deserves to log more time during meaningful minutes.. both of them do. I just decided that ( :
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
It is indeed a organizational issue that needs fixing. You can only get so much out of practice.
How about starting at 10 minutes per game, then giving them intense film studies on what they are doing right or wrong and how they are jiving with the team chemistry. Then graduate them to 36 minutes for a few weeks. IF at that point they are still busting or only average then ratchet down thier minutes and try the next guy. If they are beasting (LIn) then go with it.. It is something we never did with broken wing, or Randolph.
My gut feeling is that if every guy in the nation got a fair chance at starting (in theory only cuz there would never be enought time to do this) that alot of rosters would get overhauled by alot of new faces!
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
You can only get so much out of practice.
You can get whatever you want out of practice. You can do the Don Nelson practice and just play a ton of basketball, which will….well….tell you how a guy plays basketball. The sport doesn’t change just because it’s an official game, and guys don’t just bust out skills in games out of nowhere. They have those skills, and if they’re trying in practice to earn their PT, it’ll show up. Coach just has to see it.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
it’ll show up. Coach just has to see it.
the key is that it has to show up before coach can see it. coach can’t see it if it don’t show i.e. showing is harder than seeing.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 17, 2012 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Are we really going to sit here and say his 56 minutes has really shown he deserves time, especially with his lack of evidence pre-NBA?
Well, I calculated adjusted assists for the past 2.5 years this morning, and Tyler is #1 on offense. :)
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
+1 play him ( : get his arse on the court. Short minutes go by faster than most ppl can imagine.
I think it should be done in a manner like ~ “you Tyler are now our center! We will give you 10 games with starter minutes (36) to make or break yourself, we hope you are willing and able to show the NBA you belong, good luck”
I bet you they surprise ppl by the end. It doesnt even mean we will lose. We still might eak out a 2-8 stretch or 3-7 . Udoh btw , I would put in the minutes behind Tyler and just let beans sit.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 17, 2012 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
You really think that’s the best way to run a team…?
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
I do. I mean, I totally respect your views as well, and I think it's good to question strategy
specially when our team has been in the cellar of the league so consistently.
I think if run the way im saying that we would get better faster than the way things are going. We would have a notion to keep or trade Tyler and Jenkins by years end. Either they show flashes of potential and keep us intrigued or they confirm our worst fears.. At least we have an idea.
This is not all just to tank here either. IF we find that Tyler indeed fills a void then we can entertain playoff aspirations and/or have hopes for next years chances..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 17, 2012 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
I think it’s good to question strategy, too, and think Lin is a great example of why. His success elsewhere should be a reason to rethink what we’re doing. That said, in terms of coaching a basketball team, I just don’t see how randomly handing out PT is productive. PT is the ultimate carrot/stick of the coach, and where the coach derives most of their authority. It’s not to be used randomly. It’s to be used as a management tool, and given to those who earn it. There are better ways to see if Tyler/Jenkins can play.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
I am in agreement with u here and with that carrot/stick analogy but, the only modification to that I would suggest is
that they get a trial period to showcase thier stuff.. Just ten games maybe with starter type minutes, then they study film find out why they are not worthy right now, and fix that in practice THEN we dangle those minutes in front of them ala the rabbit and the carrot
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
"you Tyler are now our center! We will give you 10 games with starter minutes (36) to make or break yourself,
10 games is a pretty big chunk of season to try and make up if the guy don’t work out. If tanking is in order it would be a winning strategy but if there’s any chance of playoffs it would be suicide.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 17, 2012 8:09 PM PST up reply actions
well, chances are , we wouldnt lose all those games, and if we DID make the playoffs
Tyler or whoever would actually be all the more ready to contribute off the bench and be of help ( : check mate
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
chances are , we wouldnt lose all those games, and if we DID make the playoffs
our margin for error is so small that losing even one of those ten games might knock us out of the race. If the guy is legit he’ll eventually get his time, it’s called paying his dues.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 21, 2012 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
well, you are right in a close race.
But as far as paying thier dues, I agree in part. I think they have paid their dues just by making it to our team. Embracing them and giving them some pt for a stint so that we can see some flashes and give them better specifics to work out during practice and game film.. Plus, they get the added benefit of getting out the rookie jitters.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
They made Jeremy Lin a bench warmer, gave him sparse minutes, and sent him to the D-League.
The Warriors Knicks sure did:
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/knicks-demote-two-bench-warmers/
I’m still of the belief that nobody saw this coming.
by IQofaWarrior on Feb 16, 2012 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Why didn’t anyone see this coming, though? Maybe Lin put in a lot of hard work and legitimately improved over the offseason….but then why didn’t Dantoni see what he could do? That mystifies me. Lin has good athleticism, size, can handle the ball, get to the rim….there are legitimate basketball qualities they should have seen, and it’s not like the guys in front of him were killing it and proving they belonged on the court or anything….someone at Knicks practice clearly should have seen this earlier.
by Missing Barry on Feb 16, 2012 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
I had thought about this recently
And I had found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCCUNTwhwRk
This was Jeremy Lin in garbage time against the Kings back at the beginning of the season. To me, he looked the same as he did with the Warriors. There wasn’t anything overly impressive about this stint.
I think it’s a matter of something clicking in Jeremy Lin’s mind, such as mentally toughening up after being sent to the D-League AGAIN, and deciding to play with a chip on his shoulder. It’s a little like the We Believe roster. It took some time and struggling, and then suddenly everything clicked, with the attitude of striking hard and playing swarming speed and defense. And like Jeremy Lin, who knew?
Everyone knows that the first game that Lin blew up was vs the Nets. But the game before, when they were @Celtics, D’Antoni played Lin for a short stint, and Lin still didn’t look any different. I think it was just a matter of “clicking”.
by IQofaWarrior on Feb 16, 2012 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
Some of it has to do with opportunity, as well, I think. Last year for the Warriors, Lin only played 20+ minutes twice (his last two games he appeared, both barely more than 20 minutes). This year for the Knicks, he only played double digits once before that Nets game. Hard to make an impact in 5 minutes, you know? Especially if you’re playing with ball hogs/ball dominators. To some degree, Lin’s success is simply due to him being able to play lots of minutes for the first time, and actually being relied on to make plays. To some degree I think he’s been doing more than he should – see his turnovers for proof…though I need to watch some film on him to get a better idea on that (have the game from last Friday on my Tivo waiting to be watched)…
by Missing Barry on Feb 16, 2012 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
His turnovers are bound to go down.
And pretty much your entire post here supports giving Tyler and Jenkins some opportunity.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
And pretty much your entire post here supports giving Tyler and Jenkins some opportunity.
If they earn it, yes. I have little doubt Lin showed things in practice that the coaches just missed. I do not know if Tyler or Jenkins have earned PT or not.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Why are his turnovers bound to go down?
It seems to me that his turnovers are coming from his limitatations as a ballhandler/playmaker (his tendency to keep his head down, for example, when driving or coming around a pick).
They’re not rookie-oh-my-god-look-at-the-game-speed turnovers. They’re not Curry-esque “I’m going to try a fancy pass that I probably shouldn’t try” turnovers.
I was assuming that turnovers tend to go down during a players career
There is still a learning curve and upside achieve
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
To some degree I think he’s been doing more than he should – see his turnovers for proof…t
Why I’m not worried about Lin’s turnovers.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
Watched another quarter of the game….still have a half to go. Looks to me so far like the turnovers really are a product of Lin trying to do too much, but that’s still just a first impression.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
not sure you read it correctly
why I’m not worried
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
Sorry your blog is blocked at my work, so I can’t really respond to that now.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
oh
it’s a stats thing – check it out when you have a chance
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
Just read it, wonder what kinds of sample sizes you need for individual stats like TOR. Anyways, I’ll have more to say about this point over the weekend when I’ve watched Lin some more.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
To some degree I think he’s been doing more than he should – see his turnovers for proof
His TOR is pretty much inline with the average for starting NBA PGs.
by Spider Jerusalem on Feb 17, 2012 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Which….suggests he’s doing more than he should. Your average starting NBA PG shouldn’t have that big a role in your offense.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Your average starting NBA PG shouldn’t have that big a role in your offense.
But this is D’Antoni’s offense. Which has the PG handling the ball an insane amount of time in PnR and basically making all the offensive decisions. Nash, for instance, only had a TOR below 20.0 one time in all his years playing for D’Antoni. Given that Lin’s AST% is 51.5 and USG% is 31.1, his TOR being where it is (20.4%) is actually rather exceptional.
by Spider Jerusalem on Feb 17, 2012 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Lin is no Steve Nash. His turnovers aren’t of the same nature, and against tougher competition and with a larger sample size, the stats are going to start showing it.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
I think Lin goes Nash-like in his career.. He just seems to have alot of control and instinct.
Altho Nash is truely special
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 17, 2012 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t understand the Lin-Nash comparisons at all. I don’t think Lin is remotely Nash-like. He’s closer to Russell Westbrook/Derrick Rose as a player, from a style standpoint, than Steve Nash.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed. Nash will always have his shooting ability to use as a threat. Defenders will always have to worry about Nash pulling up for a jumper, and Nash uses that to his advantage to throw a defender off-balance. Lin primarily is a slasher. He has a nice floater that he’s been utilizing, but defenders still don’t respect his jumper.
well, my comparison i admit was probably not the best.
but i do think Lin will get the pick and roll down, and set up easy alleyoops and have that ability to drive in and around and through the defense kinda like nash and he has an underated shot. but nearly all other areas they are quite diff.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 17, 2012 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
and he has an underated shot.
You mean jump-shot?
No. Lin doesn’t have an under-rated outside shot. He’s got a bad one.
It’s actually not that clear if Lin can get through a defense that doesn’t give him space with consistency.
He’s been knocking down the midrange J so far this year.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
Lin’s already showing good stuff in the PnR, but so do Westbrook and Rose – in the short amount of film I’ve watched, he does it more like them. He doesn’t have great vision, but he does a good job of getting to the rim, finishing, and drawing fouls, and he generally understands his reads well (which makes it look like he has better vision than he does). Definitely not the slow paced, carve you up with ridiculous passing and vision you see from the likes of Kidd (earlier in his career), Rubio, Nash, etc.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
hahah ya!
They do that slow paced carving !
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
You're moving the goal posts. I never said Lin was or was not Steve Nash.
I’m referencing Nash’s turnover rate because he was the last point guard to get this treatment in D’Antoni’s offense for any extended period of time.
My entire point is that given D’Antoni’s system (and the fact that these are the first starts and first extended minutes of Lin’s career), there’s not anything to really be alarmed about regarding Lin’s turnovers.
by Spider Jerusalem on Feb 17, 2012 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
My point is that there is plenty to be alarmed about regarding Lin’s turnovers. Turning it over because you drive into traffic and find yourself with nowhere to go, pick up and your dribble and are surrounded by defenders is not a productive turnover. That’s the kind of thing that demonstrates you’re in over your head, and trying to do too much. It’s closer to what Monta Ellis does than what Steve Nash does, when he turns it over trying to make a play that will give a teammate a wide open shot. One of them makes the offense a lot better. One of them does not. Lin has played well so far, and their offense has been succeeding with him in that role so far. The key word is so far.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
My point is that there is plenty to be alarmed about regarding Lin’s turnovers
I think you’re overstating it. Did you read my post? The stats right now suggest there’s not much to worry about.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
On the other hand, so far he’s played the Nets (30), Jazz (24), Wizards (25), Lakers (10), Timberwolves (13), Raptors (18), and Kings (28). Number in parentheses is defense rank by DRtg on BB-Ref, and one of the two above average teams really shut him down. I’ll watch more film (got another nationally televised game this weekend to watch) before saying anything definitive, but it’s definitely cause for concern in my view. It’s the kind of thing that may suggest his offense doesn’t positive impact the team as much as it might seem.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
Turning it over because you drive into traffic and find yourself with nowhere to go, pick up and your dribble and are surrounded by defenders is not a productive turnover.
In all the games I’ve watched of Lin’s recent streak (which has been five, I believe), I don’t think that describes his turnovers at all.
when he turns it over trying to make a play that will give a teammate a wide open shot.
This, however, does describe most of his turnovers.
He gets turnovers trying to split the PnR defenders, or while driving through the defense to draw attention (getting tied up before he makes the pass). Most of his turnovers, so far, have been a result of him failing to make a play when there was a play to be made (and/or getting hacked. He doesn’t get a lot of calls right now, and teams are kind of beating the shit out of him).
by Spider Jerusalem on Feb 17, 2012 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I can only watch the national broadcasts. Been taking the time to study the film, rather than just watch the game, but so far in the Lakers game I’ve seen that happen to him multiple times.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
(Will have more to report on when the weekend is over)
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
agreed
this
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
He has ALWAYS played with swarming defense!
This is the reason that when they finally gave him a chance that i was saying hey let him play more! My philosophy is always to play defense first. Offense takes care of itself cuz everyone can shoot and wants to shoot.
Bottom line is alot of us saw flashes and wanted more. I seee flashes with both TYler and Jenkins. I want more. Im not saying they will be as phenominal as Lin but you never know really. It wont break our bank to find out either
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 16, 2012 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
I want more.
This, ultimately, is my issue with your view. I think it revolves entirely around the notion that you (“you” really represents fans in general) need to see what these guys can do, and that’s not a factor I want the coaching staff considering.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Well , they shouldnt do it just for us fans , but, for themselves!
I know Lin was most likely quite the exception, but , then again , has anyone ever slipped through the cracks that we never heard of? Maybe? How often . The thing is if they slip through , like Lin amost did, then we never ever hear about them..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 17, 2012 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
I’m sure players have slipped through. My point is just that there are better ways of catching them than randomly handing out PT. Heck, what happens if the player goes out and has a bad stretch – do we bury them forever because we gave them a chance? A bad 10 game stretch can happen, or maybe the player just wasn’t ready yet. I just don’t see your solution as one that actually solves the real problem – which is a question of how to best identify and develop talent.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
well, no I wouldnt bury them but I do think a player will show glimpses or flashes of what they got..
Specially if given a prominent role and asked to contribute to the success of the team. Then they fix any probs in practice and have real stuff to work on..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
WOW jenkins looks like a superstar compared to Lins play in that game
This was Jeremy Lin in garbage time against the Kings back at the beginning of the season
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 20, 2012 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
In Jenkins two games where he got real minutes he looked pretty good i thought
specially for his being fulll rookie
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 8:03 PM PST up reply actions
I’m still of the belief that nobody saw this coming.
other than a few nut jobs of course no body saw it coming or he’d still be here or at lakers, dallas, or houston.When the world ends some nut running around with “the end is near” sign is gonna look like a genius but for now I’d go with the more likely scenario and bet that the sun comes up tomorrow.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 16, 2012 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
Musselman did see 'this' coming
the folks running the team have decided that Tyler and Jenkins learn more from practicing and hanging out with the big club, than they would by competing and playing in d-league. That wasn’t their decision with Lin, who got nothing but ‘straight A’s’ from Musselman in Reno. apparently the coach, with more career wins than Smart and Jackson combined, doesn’t have much credibility with the brain trust. the Prophit Joseph made remarks recently in a manner of giving the Smart coaching tenure a post mortem, saying he wanted to sever connections with the Nelson era all along but had no other coaching options because of the lengthy approval process of the team’s sale. In truth he had other options from outside of Nelson’s staff, if he found objections to the ousted regime, Musselman one of the obvious candidates. Prolonging the approval process was by his own choice, because he kept adding minority partners to reduce his personal stake after he’d won the bid.
before his break through with NY, which would not have been duplicated elsewhere and certainly not with either Smart or Jackson as the coach, Lin had successfully met each test in his hoops career, from being initially assigned the small forward position on the Harvard team, to competing mano a mano with Wall in summer league, and flourishing as Musselman’s starting point guard. Prophit Joseph made sure we all knew about his success in identifying undervalued companies and assets ; the decision to up the ante in the Jordan bid by the essentially inconsequential amount of a portion of Lin’s minimum salary was really his, contrary to what Riley might say to save the boss’ face. from what we know about how close Lin came to getting waived by NY, yes it’s true almost no one saw this coming, but given Lin’s resume, character, talent, persistence, a break through would come somewhere or another.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
maybe they don’t know as much as you think?
or more likely Lin wasn’t what you think he was at that time. They are not gonna miss a linsanity when they see it.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 16, 2012 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
They are not gonna miss a linsanity when they see it.
I wonder how much they really looked.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
as kobe stated (regarding lin)
players don’t come out of nowhere. usually the skills are already there and people just don’t find them immediately.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
as kobe stated
or as Montay said in the recent interview, " I didn’t think he would be this good" or something along those lines. If the guy who practiced with him every day didn’t see it then it probably was not readily apparent?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 18, 2012 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
or, perhaps, monta is not a very good evaluation of talent
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
perhaps, monta is not a very good evaluation of talent
I’m sure he’s better than you at it.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 18, 2012 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
i dont trust nba players' ability to evaluate talent at all
that’s the kind of reasoning that leads to bass for big baby trades.
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
that’s the kind of reasoning that leads to bass for big baby trades.
I don’t think Montay had anything to do with that trade. He did spend a lot of time watching Lin’s game up close as did Binky who also said he was surprised by Lin’s numbers at NYK.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 18, 2012 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
you don't think dwight spent time watching bass' game?
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
you don't think dwight spent time watching bass' game?
don’t know. did he make that trade?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 18, 2012 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
they made that trade because dwight told them to
"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah
Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo
Funny how everyone forgets
Lin had the best wp48 on the warriors last year. Of course that would require actually thinking there just might – possibly – be something in advanced stats. Maybe.
He's a one-legged skateboarding card sharp who knows the secret of the alien invasion. She's a transdimensional belly-dancing cab driver from beyond the grave. They fight crime!
Of course that would require actually thinking there just might – possibly – be something in advanced stats.
obviously nothing useful or it woulda been apparent. unless you’re sayin advanced stats taught him how to shoot over the off season?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 16, 2012 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
Also this:
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
exactly
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 16, 2012 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
who blew it?
thinking about it a bit, the real loser in the lin saga might be the Kings? They didn’t have a curry on their roster and really need a point guard to go along with tyreke. Smart knew enough to grab lin off waivers when we dropped him just to see if he could help their team but for some reason didn’t ? Imagine lin working with reke, cousins ,and the other young kings, woulda been fun to watch.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 16, 2012 3:47 PM PST reply actions
Lin was playing good and showing flashes last year
so hardcore fans know Lin is good, especially when Lin DOES play good defense.
I don’t see CJ and Tyler play good defense at all. I don’t think they are good. If you really want to choose one, Tyler > CJ because of his size, that’s about it. So far they both showing their weakness when they played. CJ is not a good defense guy and has no court vision. Tyler has butter finger, can’t grab rebounds. They both can shoot pretty well, but so does rest of the NBA players.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Feb 17, 2012 2:08 PM PST reply actions
Don't be so quick to write off Tyler as butter fingers.
If it was your first NBA experience and you were only given a few minutes to play, wouldn’t you be abit nervous and on edge? Let him get comfortable.
Sure, fair point, but on the other hand, why should we assume he doesn’t have stone hands?
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
the reason you do not see cj or tyler play good defense is because they are not playing
maybe after they are cut and land in NY they will get playing time…………..
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
Can you give me a single reason we should assume that if they were playing, they would succeed?
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
can you give me a reason why they will not?
Is nate robinson a long term option as back-up point guard?
Should beans be playing any minutes at all?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
I kinda like Nate as a long term option since he is 28
but we already know what he has got. So far, we dont know what Jenkins has in terms of being our long term backup pg.
Beans should ride the bench, I dont see him upping his value any at this point. His playing any minutes only takes away minutes from Udoh’s and Tylers developement.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 17, 2012 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
Sure, I can give you a few. Because they haven’t shown they can in the minutes they played. Because the coaches haven’t been giving them PT. Because they were second round picks.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
the minutes they have played they have done decently; they deserve more playing time.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
They may or may not deserve more PT, but we, as fans, haven’t seen anything that definitely says they do.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
Nate is good
I said Nate is a great backup PG. We are lucky to get Nate.
Yes, Beans should play more minutes. Beans is here for his defense, rebounding and block shots and he delivers. No idea why people keep asking him to do offense. Like last night’s game, Beans should play on the 4th for rebounding. We have more than enough scorers.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Feb 17, 2012 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
nate is not a great back-up. maybe a decent third option for pg.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
Nate is a great backup
This is why our bench plays better than our starters. Nate was out one game and our bench was totally sucked.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Feb 17, 2012 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
sorry, i disagree.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not much of a Robinson fan, and am definitely watching to see how he regresses towards the mean going forward, but at least up to this point, he’s been a good backup PG for us.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
this is how im feelin MB. Nate has either slightly improved, fits with our system better than he has in other systems, or is going to regress towards the mean..
So , basically we know what we got in him. No surprises there. We have a few wild cards now in Klay (not so much as we have already seen enought to know there is a good chance for him) , Tyler ,and Jenkins.. If we we went your style then when do we find out about them, if they never prove themselves in practice are we just going to cut them? I hate the idea of bowing down to the highest paid players , I think they shoud be totally humble and be willing to sit or take a back seat for a while for the greater good of the team.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 17, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
if they never prove themselves in practice are we just going to cut them
Absolutely. Like I said, though, my criteria for earning PT isn’t solely about who the better player is. If they’re working hard day in and day out over a long period of time, they should see some time on the floor as a reward. If they never earn PT in practice, it means they aren’t doing what the coaches are asking them, aren’t improving enough, working hard enough, and ultimately, aren’t good enough. I have no problem at all cutting a guy like that. It’s not someone I would ever expect to be a contributor.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
As a side note, Tyler will get a longer chance to prove himself than Jenkins. Big men with that kind of potential are much more rare (there’s a reason we paid $3M or whatever for his rights), and will be a much bigger hit if he pans out, so he should get plenty of opportunity to prove himself. A guy like Jenkins has a lot less opportunity to prove himself. There are plenty of guys out there we could be giving his roster spot to instead.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
I expect Beans to contribute what he used to on offense and stop fouling so much. I don’t think that’s unreasonable to ask, and that he’s been so far below expectations makes him not worth very much to us.
by Missing Barry on Feb 17, 2012 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Can you give me a single reason we should assume that if they were playing, they would succeed?
the Lin effect?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 17, 2012 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
CJ played as our starting PG when Curry was out
During his playtime, his defense was very bad, even with extended minutes.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Feb 17, 2012 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
two games is no where near enough to pass judgement.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
I am pretty sure it is more than just 2 games.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Feb 17, 2012 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
mean it was more than 2 games
Curry’s 2nd injury took him out for 8 games, not to mention the 1st one he had.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Feb 17, 2012 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
he played 28 and 21 minutes. other games are no where close to that and mostly 2 or 3 minutes at best
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
20 min is more than enough to show your defense
even 3 min is enough. CJ is just not showing anything other than midrange jumpers.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Feb 17, 2012 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
40mintues and he is a bust; cut him!
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4925/gamelog;_ylt=Aj0X9ke0T70Ytpufa9HAQ.ekvLYF
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 17, 2012 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
I see..
so looks like he started all these 8 games, at least 10 min play time. Even for 10min, that’s 5~6 min for the 1st Q and 3rd Q. 8 games, that’s more than enough of showing. Lin showed in his first game and took people to believe in him on his 4th games. Man, Jenkins already has 8 games as our starting PG.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Feb 17, 2012 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
everybody is a little bit right
What really matters is for Lacob to convey to Jackson that the playoffs do not equal his job. Countless Warriors coaches have played crappy veterans in futiles efforts to keep their position.
This team has a very, very, slim chance of making the playoffs without an NBA center on their roster. Getting KB on a one year deal was actually better than landing Jordan, he was doing what they needed before his injury. Now its gotta be a combination of not appearing to tank and playing the guys who you think might be good later.
Last night’s game was actually not that bad in terms of how they should distribute minutes. Curry and Ellis get about 30. Thompson and Udoh in the low twenties, they should get a bit more. Tyler as well.
Biedrens’ corpse is playing about 15 minutes/game now (nice line- 15minutes, no points, three rebounds, one block), cant really play him less unless they cut him. Which they should, I could care less, its not my money and he is an embarrassment. Trade him now for a second rounder. Unless they have something better up their sleeves…
by felix botticelli on Feb 18, 2012 10:01 AM PST reply actions
I would like to experiment with udoh at the 4 and tyler at the 5... skip beans altogether if possible..
we need another project big. beans is done in my book
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Feb 21, 2012 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
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