Anthony Morrow

...has 42 points tonight.

4 months ago Sensei Ben 52 comments 0 recs |

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damn.

the Nets lost though

by jpees on Feb 3, 2012 8:25 PM PST reply actions

my fantasy team smilies

by AJC3317 on Feb 3, 2012 8:31 PM PST reply actions

i almost had him on the bench on the team i have him on

good thing i checked to see if he was starting before the game

"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah

Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo

by bigkino217 on Feb 3, 2012 8:43 PM PST up reply actions

my friend is complaining that he was killing me at 3s

but i had morrow and george (whose line was absolutely beastly)

"Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu." - J--Ridah

Me: So who (from the 2011 draft class) compares with (Anthony) Davis?
J-Ridah: Biyombo

by bigkino217 on Feb 3, 2012 8:45 PM PST up reply actions

i had george going too. too bad i was already dominating in 3s this week

by AJC3317 on Feb 4, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions

well done ammo

by maryjane on Feb 4, 2012 1:19 AM PST up reply actions

but he really didn’t do much other than catch-and-shoot. Going for 42 is still impressive either way, but it means very little going forward. I liked the way Farmar and Williams were playing. They set him up a lot.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 3, 2012 8:46 PM PST reply actions

morrow >>>> klaynk

by maryjane on Feb 4, 2012 1:20 AM PST reply actions

I LOVE how we over value our ormer players

Klay will have a much better career than Morrow
Morrow averaging 14.8 points and less than one assist in about 28 minutes game.
Reggie, who people here love to over value, averaging 4 points a game.

Go DUBS!

by Togna Balogna on Feb 4, 2012 8:17 AM PST up reply actions

ormer, not former

by Togna Balogna on Feb 4, 2012 8:17 AM PST up reply actions

Reggie Williams just came back from knee surgery and has played 30 minutes total this season. But hey, he’s averaging 8.4 rebounds per 36! ;-P

Instead of overvaluing, undervaluing, drawing conclusions from one game, or making baseless pronouncements about the future, maybe we should actually look at their total career production to date.

Per 36 mins.
Reggie 16.4 pts (.581 ts%) / 4.9 reb / 2.8 ast / 1.3 tov (in 23 mpg)
Morrow 16.0 pts (.587 ts%) / 4.1 reb / 1.6 ast / 1.3 tov (in 28 mpg)

I won’t bother posting Klay’s numbers since he’s a just rook and it’s still a small sample size. Suffice it say that right now he’s nowhere near the level Reggie or Morrow. Heck, he’s not even near the level that they were at as rookies. He may get there someday — I think he has more defensive potential than Reggie, and his handles already look a lot better than Morrow’s. But act like it’s a given that he’ll have “much better career” than either of them makes you look like a bit of a homer. (Go DUBS!!!)

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 4, 2012 8:56 AM PST up reply actions

per 36 klay

14 pts (.529 ts%) / 2.9 reb / 2.8 ast / 2.4 tov

doesn’t seem bad at all for a rook, especially one that struggled a lot early on.

It’s hard not to be a better defender than Reggie and Morrow, and he has shown much better vision than either. I think his rebounding will go up, he’s got great size.

I still think it’s an easy gamble to take to say he will be a far better overall player than Morrow or Reggie

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Feb 4, 2012 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

14 pts (.529 ts%) / 2.9 reb / 2.8 ast / 2.4 tov
doesn’t seem bad at all for a rook, especially one that struggled a lot early on.

I didn’t say it was bad, just that it’s not as good as Morrow or Reggie, as rookies or subsequently. That’s just a statement of fact.

It’s hard not to be a better defender than Reggie and Morrow

Sure. Morrow’s defensive plus-minus numbers actually aren’t that bad, but I don’t doubt that Klay could easily surpass him and Reggie on that end. At the same time, it’s not like the scouting reports of his D have ever been particularly glowing.

and he has shown much better vision than either.

Almost certainly better than Morrow, who remains a bit of a one-trick pony on offense (though that one trick is pretty spectacular). Not so sure about Reggie, though. I sometimes think he doesn’t get enough credit for being a lot more than a 3-point shooter. He led the nation in scoring twice in college, and showed pretty decent handles and court vision in his two seasons here.

I think his rebounding will go up, he’s got great size.

Yeah, but it’s precisely his size that makes his rebounding numbers to date so underwhelming. When you’re a 6’-7" wing on a crappy-rebounding team, crashing the glass is one of your primary responsibilities. 2.9 per 36 is nowhere near acceptable. I’m sure the numbers will go up; the question is how much. His rebounding numbers in college — generally an extremely good indicator of pro rebounding — were OK-but-unspectacular for a guy with his size advantage over college wings (5.4 reb per 36). I’d expect him to max out at OK-but-unspectacular on the boards as a pro.

I still think it’s an easy gamble to take to say he will be a far better overall player than Morrow or Reggie

I guess that depends on your definition of “easy gamble,” your definition of “far better,” and what indicators you’re using to make your assessment. If you’re using scoring volume, scoring efficiency, and rebounding (three hugely important skills for a wing) and some reasonable definition of “far better,” I’ll gladly take your money. ;-) If you factor in D, that might improve Klay’s chances of getting to “far better,” but I’d want to know what we’re using to measure D.

Obviously, I hope you’re right. If Klay maxes out somewhere between Mr. Potatohead and Ray Allen, we’ll be set at starting SG for a while.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 4, 2012 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs

Should have kept all 3 of Klay, Morrow, Reggie.

And traded Monta.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions

On a team like that, Steph would be getting trapped on almost every possession.

Those three are capable of very little after putting the ball on the floor. The best of the 3 is Reggie, and he’s not that great. Sure, they can all catch-and shoot, but that’s not a huge weapon without a true star play-maker, or at least someone who commands a lot of double- and triple-teams when they attack the basket. Plus, our defense would have been and would be just as bad (maybe worse, considering Monta creates points off of turnovers) if we were giving all our minutes at the 2 to Morrow, Reggie, and Klay.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 4, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions

Reggie's a good passer and penetrator.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 2:47 PM PST up reply actions

It’s rare that you see Reggie make a play for a teammate all on his own. I can recall plenty of times where he got into the paint off a good pass and dished to someone else for an easy basket. I recall plenty of instances of him getting out on the break and making the final pass. However, I remember very few instances of him being a true play-maker. That goes to both his ability (or inability) to penetrate in the half-court, and to pass out of that penetration. So lets go to the stats.

Well, Reggie picks up assists at about the league average rate for a shooting guard or swing-man.

According to Hoopdata:

2.96 ast per 36 min for all SGs

2.69 ast per 36 for all Swings

2.41 ast per 36 for all SFs

According to Basketball Reference:

2.8 ast per 36 min for Reggie Williams

See how that’s right in between those numbers? Let me find you some players with numbers better than that:

Sasha Vujacic, career 2.9 ast per 36 min
J.R. Smith, career 3.0 ast per 36 min
Ben Gordon, career 3.4 ast per 36 min
O.J. Mayo, career 2.9 ast per 36 min
Marquis Daniels, career 3.1 ast per 36 min
Rudy Fernandez, career 3.3 ast per 36 min

Not exactly the who’s who of best SG passers. Not to mention they all have all logged significantly more minutes than Reggie, who’s passing numbers in his full sophomore season were not quite as good as in his 24-game stint as a rookie. Something Reggie is definitely good at, is not turning the ball over. That, however, doesn’t make somebody a good passer.

Reggie isn’t bad getting into the paint, but only succeeds when he already has the advantage. He’s not particularly good at doing it when his defender starts in good defensive position. He’s not the kind of guy you ever want to be in an isolation situation. He is good at recognizing when he doesn’t have the advantage, so that definitely helps with his turnovers and cutting down on missed shots, but that still doesn’t make him good at penetrating.

For statistical proof, let’s get back to Hoopdata:

In 2010-2011, Reggie attempted 3.0 shots at the rim per 36 min.

The average shooting guard?

2.96 shots at the rim per 36 min

Reggie made 67.6% of his attempts at the rim, with 55.3% of them assisted.

The average shooting guard?

63.6% made, with 50.7% of them assisted

So Reggie did convert at a better rate, but he didn’t get there any more frequently. He also had more of his successful attempts set up by another player. In fact, that difference is actually larger than the difference in how often he made the shot. Essentially, he’s about the same player. Not really unexpected since he’s a decent offensive option off the bench, which average shooting guards tend to be.

Now, I’m pretty sure your argument is going to turn to his TS% since that’s really all that’s left.

J.J. Redick and Bill Walker also finished the 2010-2011 season with TS% better than 58. J.J. had just done it for the 2nd season in a row. Bill Walker too. What’s that? Kyle Korver has had a better TS% than Reggie since Reggie came into the league? But let’s not forget James Jones, Mike Dunleavy, and Daequan Cook. All of these guys are starting SGs in the NBA right? What? None of them are? They’re all backups? Incredible.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 4, 2012 4:11 PM PST up reply actions

Reggie made 67.6% of his attempts at the rim, with 55.3% of them assisted.

The average shooting guard?

63.6% made, with 50.7% of them assisted

You do realize that makes Reggie much better than the average SG…

2.8 ast per 36 min for Reggie Williams

You didn’t mention his 1.2 turnovers per 36 which ranks amongst the best in the league. Considering the team didn’t give him much of a chance to create, 2.8 assists for a spot up shooter is very good.

But what this comes down to is your affection for Monta Ellis. It might be hard for you to admit this team has jettisoned multiple SG’s over the past 5 years who have been better than Monta (J-Rich, Azubuike, Jackson, Morrow, Reggie) but we have. The team played better with Reggie on the floor rather than Monta for 2 straight years, yet you keep finding reasons why Reggie shouldn’t start. Answer this: Why should Monta start then?

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions

Francisco Garcia’s numbers at the rim were better than Reggie’s. His %AST on those shots was also higher. When your shots are assisted more, shots get easier. Reggie’s numbers compare to Sefolosha, Willie Green, and Marquis Daniels. None of them are really good penetrators or passers. So the same way his percentage at the rim is better than a lot of players, his %AST is also higher.

Besides, let’s get back to the original point. I said putting those three at SG next to Steph would make things much more difficult for him because we’d lose a lot of our passing/driving ability. That much is already obvious, since those are his greatest strengths as a SG. So lets look at Monta and his stats:

69% at the rim
39.1%AST at the rim
4.7 attempts
5 assists

All in the top 5 of SGs. And don’t worry, all calculated per 36 min.

No matter how you look at it, with stats, without, with your eyes, objectively, subjectively, we get significantly worse in those two categories. Passing and penetrating wouldn’t be completely absent, but betting on Reggie to take pressure off Steph as a play-maker is a losing game. He’s an effective scorer, but he is not anything more than average as a shot-creator, for himself or for his teammates.

And BTW

You didn’t mention his 1.2 turnovers per 36

um…I know numbers are all you seem to think matters in basketball, but:

Something Reggie is definitely good at, is not turning the ball over.

See, that’s me, saying Reggie is “definitely good at…not turning the ball over.”

And the last part doesn’t really deserve a response, but I think it’d be good for you to know that my 2 favorite Warriors ever (JR and Kelenna) are on your list. You think that I play favorites with Monta, but it’s just not true. I obviously view him differently than you do, but it’s not out of personal affection. The fact that you have to resort to accusing me of it in our discussions about him only makes me smile (or laugh, depending). I hope you do realize that I have never accused you of being biased towards Reggie for personal reasons, despite the fact that you’ve had him as your avatar picture both here and on Twitter. If you want to continue the discussion, go ahead, but know that you look more and more like a fool every time that becomes your argument. Especially considering there are a lot of users on SBNation who believe there’s few fans who allow personal bias to cloud their basketball judgement more than you.

And why should Monta start? Now you’re asking a question that’s been answered 1000 times over, by me, by the coaches we’ve had, by the front office, by fans of our team, by fans of other teams. Hey, Nellie started Monta over Reggie too. You respect his opinion, don’t you? If anybody with power in this league thought Reggie Williams was better than Monta Ellis, Reggie Williams would be making more than $5M over the next 2 seasons.

And now, the age-old response of Monta’s adjusted +/- value

Nick Collison is the 6th best player in the NBA by the same measure. Luol Deng is 9th. Chuck Hayes, Keyong Dooling, Dorell Wright, and Andre Miller are in the top 20. Lamar Odom was the best Laker from 2009-2011. Matt Bonner, of all people, is in the top 30. Hey look, there’s Amir Johnson and Jared Dudley, in the top 40. Earl Watson too.

And let’s not forget how the same stat had Kobe as one of the 10 worst players in the NBA last season. And Kirk Hinrich and Raja Bell, they’re two of the 5 worst players in the NBA.

Clearly, that stat can be wrong. It’d definitely not all that consistent for every player, either. Kobe has gone from a big + to a huge – back to a big + again over the last 3 years. What’s to say it can’t do that to a player every other 2 years? Or 3 years? There isn’t anything to say it, because it’s happened. A good amount actually.

The same way that PPG or PER or WS don’t perfectly rank the league’s best players, neither does adjusted +/-. Trust me, when people get tired of hearing about how it’s the greatest thing to ever happen to basketball when it has obvious flaws, you’ll move on to another stat. You used to love WP right? Wonder what it was before that…

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 4, 2012 6:15 PM PST up reply actions

There is no good player in the league that has made his team much worse for 3 straight years. Reggie and Morrow made their teams better for 2 straight years. I’m not asking you to defend PPG driven NBA FO’s (There are definitely some Reggie fans out there, just not the GM’s and owners). Please explain why Monta should continue to start over players who make the team better. If it’s such an obvious answer, please enlighten me.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 6:25 PM PST up reply actions

There is no good player in the league that has made his team much worse for 3 straight years.

Amare Stoudemire is working on his 4th consecutive negative adjusted +/-

Now, I’m fully prepared for you to tell me he hasn’t been a good player in any of the past 3 seasons. I dare you.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 4, 2012 6:32 PM PST up reply actions

I’m looking at RAPM and unadjusted +/- not APM. I don’t like APM.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 6:39 PM PST up reply actions

And Amar’e has been a defensive sieve his entire career so it makes sense he’d have horrible #’s this year with his lack of offense.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 6:40 PM PST up reply actions

What about the previous 3?

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 4, 2012 6:41 PM PST up reply actions

I said i don't look entirely at APM.

Sometimes his offense hasn’t always made up for his defense. Nash was the real reason for the Suns success, not Amar’e.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 7:03 PM PST up reply actions

LOL I love how you can’t make up your mind now. Is adjust +/- right or wrong for Amare? Just answer.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 4, 2012 7:37 PM PST up reply actions

It's closer to right than wrong.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 9:49 PM PST up reply actions

ok

So, I can take that as you saying Amare is not a good player right?

I wish you would just say it. It’d be way more fun for me that way.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 4, 2012 10:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

He's not a good #1 or #2 player.

That’s the role he was in when he amassed those +/- numbers.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 10:51 PM PST up reply actions

So...

Nash is such a good #1 player that he carried a team with a bad #2 to the Conference Finals twice?

Dumb question. I should know by now you probably feel that way.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 5, 2012 12:40 AM PST up reply actions

Yes, Nash is that good.

All he needs is a good player or two and he can get you places.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 5, 2012 1:02 AM PST up reply actions

Steve Nash is the greatest player in the NBA...

#STATSsssssssss

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 5, 2012 1:08 AM PST up reply actions

Nope.

He was a top 5 player in his prime.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 5, 2012 10:51 AM PST up reply actions

Don't mind me

Just having a little fun lol

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Feb 5, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions

We gotta stop excusing the Front Office time and time again!

They made a mistake. We have to live with it AGAIN.

Simply put, we should not have let go of both Morrow and Reggie that easily. They both clearly had more potential than what our FO valued them at.
This year we drafted a player who’s ceiling would be no more than Morrow’s.
Don’t you believe there seems to be an issue here? Where have we improved? I say NOWHERE… just regressed (as usual).

All 3 aren’t great defenders… I’m sure everyone would agree here.
Morrow is marginally a better shooter than Reggie, who’s much better than Klay.
Klay’s handles are better than Morrow’s but there not great either. Reggie can run the open floor (no need to cringe everytime Klay is on a fast break).
Reggie can create his own shot, unlike Klay and also to an extent- Morrow.

So putting all these together we can clearly see Reggie >>> Morrow >>> Klay

But why does our FO value Klay more than these guys? We couldn’t pay Morrow 3mil and Reggie 2.5mil to keep their services? And here we are paying a one dimensional rookie who hasn’t proved himself 2.4mil. Unbelievable.

All seems a little hard to comprehend for me. So everytime Reggie or Morrow light it up for their respective clubs, I’m going to feel happy for them and most likely I’m going to put shit on our FO again and again.

by maryjane on Feb 4, 2012 2:29 PM PST up reply actions

But why does our FO value Klay more than these guys?

pay attention :>). It’s the hollywood hype. Former player’s son with trendy name and the endorsement of the logo will over rule a functioning Mr. potatohead every time in goober’s eyes.

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2012 2:45 PM PST up reply actions

honestly

I believe this too

by maryjane on Feb 4, 2012 4:01 PM PST up reply actions

Worth mentioning – we didn’t actually lose Morrow for nothing. Morrow became Charles Jenkins. Just from our initial view of Jenkins, he seems like a very good 2nd round pick (which means he might actually become a real NBA player). If Jenkins becomes a capable backup, I think that helps our team more than Morrow (just because we need a PG more than a lights-out shooting SG who doesn’t do much else).

by Missing Barry on Feb 4, 2012 3:39 PM PST up reply actions

No.

We traded Morrow for a top 55 protected pick. Obviously, we didn’t get it. You’re thinking of CJ Watson, who we traded for the pick that we got with Jenkins.

Gambino is a mastermind...

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions