Recap: Warriors 110, Suns 113 - I Believe!

by YaoButtaMing on Nov 21, 2006 12:01 AM PST in Recaps Comment 54 comments

Tonight I have seen the light. The Lord has shown me the way, and that way was ONE. ONE for teamwork, ONE for passion, ONE for the most unbelievable dunk I've ever seen live! My voice is completely gone, and though we lost the game at the very end, I believe this was a victorious game for our hearts and confidence. Tonight, we had the chance to see one of our young players turn into a man.

Imagine how good we will be when this guy is at 100% health!

First Half:
Taking on the Phoenix Suns without Baron Davis was a tough challenge, but from the start the Warriors showed something I haven't seen in a long time, HUSTLE. Leading off with a fantastic first half, Mike Dunleavy was all over the place. Hitting sweet jumpers and diving for the ball, Dunleavy led the way by doing all the little things to get the job done. He finished the night with 16 points and 5 assists, but the most important stat not shown were the 5 charges he took which helped us in so many ways. Biedrins shut down the lane and Pietrus blocked almost anything that was thrown up while Ellis stole the ball every 5 minutes. By the end of the first half the Warriors were up by 5 though they should have secured at least a 9 point lead.

Second Half:
We have to give credit to the Phoenix Suns. They showed us what it is to be an elite team in the league. But amidst the draining of three's from Barbosa and Bell, our little Monta Ellis became a man. With consecutive 31-point nights, Monta has made a believer out of me and the 18,000 other Warriors fans at the game. Halfway through the fourth, Dunleavy sent a sweet pass to Ellis who took it halfway down the court, elevated from just inside the free throw line and completely posterized Barbosa with a ferocious dunk. It seemed as though the fans gave Ellis a 10 minute standing ovation. The jumbo-tron replayed the dunk at least 30 times and every single time the stadium rocked louder and louder chanting "MON-TA! MON-TA!" In the end, it just wasn't enough. With Ellis sitting out because of a severe cramp, Nash took advantage and hit the winning three.

I think we'll see this dunk all year!

Not a religious man but a spiritual man and since Thanksgiving is coming up, here are my top ten Thank You's for tonight's game:

10) I'm thankful I had the chance to see this game in person.
09) I'm thankful we have Nellie as our coach. I'm a believer now!
08) I'm thankful fans finally showed Dunleavy some support and he had a great game!
07) I'm thankful Biedrins is better then I could possibly have imagined. He showed some sweet offense moves tonight against Amare. I was shocked.
06) I'm thankful Nash cut his hair. Seriously.
05) I'm thankful the Cabo Wabo band didn't play tonight. They are bad luck and awful!
04) I'm thankful Pietrus is finally getting his shooting touch. I think he'll live up to what we all envisioned.
03) I'm thankful the Warriors played so well despite not having their best player on the floor (Baron).
02) I'm thankful you are reading this recap!
01) I'm thankful we live in a world with fantastic technology to replay Monta's dunk on Barbosa over and over and over and over ...

Thanks to nes1us for hooking up the video.

Warrior Wonder: Watch the video.

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almost out-Phoenixed the Suns

Not usually a believer in moral victories, this is the exception to the rule

by hardcore on Nov 21, 2006 9:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

speechless

i start to tear up every time I watch that video. i scared the s**t out of my girlfriend, who was in the other room, with how loud I yelled after that play. the future is now.

by bozaframa on Nov 21, 2006 9:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Chill bumps...

...Is the only way I can describe the feeling after looking at that dunk.

In keeping with the 'spiritual theme' I will say that the Warriors have been blessed with a player who has the potential to be better than Gilbert Arenas!

If the Warriors can find a way to unload salaries, and re-sign Ellis, Biedres, Pietrus, and Diogu, RUN-TMC could be back in a grand way that no Warrior fan could've possibly imagined.

http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/pkg/05NBAdraft/250/18735.jpg

by bigcity7 on Nov 21, 2006 9:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

yep,

as I told my friend yesterday. He's Gilbert without the attitude.

by Athletix Man on Nov 21, 2006 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way....

Where was the foul call on that play?

http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/pkg/05NBAdraft/250/18735.jpg

by bigcity7 on Nov 21, 2006 9:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

NBA coaching

I think it is time to dispel the notion that the NBA is a player's league and that a coach is little more than a cheerleader. The Nelson effect has been nothing short of dramatic. These players know what they are doing. They believe in their talent. They know they belong. They can run all out on the floor, because they know their teammate will give just as hard an effort with their minutes. We brought out the best in some floundering Suns players. Diaw and Bell really stepped up for their team, and boy were they needed to eek out a victory over the baron and monta-less Warriors. Nash played out of his mind last night. 15:1 turnover ratio is sick. He wanted to show his old coach how much heart he has. And, you are sure to know he respects this Warriors team. It ain't gonna be easy. We're going to maintain 100% effort from all players.

Biedrins, Pietrus, Ellis. What more can you say? Dunleavy is playing his way into fan's acceptance. If he continues to show this heart, he will win us over big time. I know the Kool Aid is flowing, but we know that with Nelson, he will manage the inevitable drop-off in energy and channel win-hunger to get the best out of his players. Is Monta the next AI without the corn rows?

by eshock on Nov 21, 2006 9:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Too bad. . .

Fun game. Great shooting by both teams. Back and forth runs. Scrambling defense. Two team very much alike, except the Suns (unfortunately) are a bit bigger down low. I find no solace in losing, but I don't see this loss as the end of the world, either. Nellie seems to feel the same.

Monta and AB continue to grow -- though AB simply has to develop his FT shooting or he'll be out at crunch time, unless they limit his touches on offense to tip ins. JRich is still nowhere near back, and I for one am starting to worry that he won't be able to play himself into shape and be the same. (He may need a month or so off -- which ain't great news -- if his knee keeps clicking and the fluid build up continues.) We now see how much BD can bring to the game -- if he's healthy. And MP is much improved, even if he still can't finish on those drives.

But Dun may have found a place here -- tho so many on this site can't see it, as reflected by their incredible mis-focus on his "flopping," as they put it. (It'd be fun to see ol' Atma take that last (fifth) charge Dun took last night; I'm not sure he'd be able to get up after -- tho in Dun's case, it still must have been a "flop" one can chuckle over.) Open you eyes and watch the game, haters, cuz what Dun's been doing -- quite consistently, thank you -- for that past 4-5 games now is gonna count big-time if the guys keep playing (and stay uninjured) as they have. I'm really not sure what more one could ask for from a sixth man than what Dun's been doing lately.

Again, his RBs are way up since Nellie told him he had to RB to play. He takes the charges unlike anyone on the team -- despite the catcalls from the haters (who laugh at how the refs must be bamboozled, tho from a safe distance). His passes are terrific -- did you see that give and go with Ellis, for example? And his defense -- at crunch time -- is second only to AB's. (Just how did her get that RB in that crowd before flipping it out to Monta for that gorgeous jam?)

The haters may not like it -- and may continue with their penchant for downplaying everything good Dun does -- but they're missing the fun with their blind prejudice. This kid is playing very good, tough-nosed basketball -- and he's helping to keep the team going at crunch time. In short, it's concededly early and I'm obviously biased, but I think this kid is hitting his stride.

Now, let me pose a question, because the answers will be telling: who's more important to the W's now -- that is, who on the team gives them a better shot at winning games -- Dun or Murph? (Or, put another way, when Murph is fully healed from his Achilles soreness, what will be his role on this team?) For some, the rote term "double-double" will be sufficient to choose Murph; others might say Murph's a better pure shooter. But who would you rather have on THIS team -- even forgetting about the disparity in their salaries? And why?

by johnl on Nov 21, 2006 10:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Dunleavy

Every time he touched the ball, we kept shouting for him to shoot it, thinking he'd have a repeat of Saturday's awful percentage. But that started backfiring, so we stopped. He played well. Suns played better, however!

by sunsgossip on Nov 21, 2006 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You can't be serious

But Dun may have found a place here -- tho so many on this site can't see it, as reflected by their incredible mis-focus on his "flopping," as they put it.

You gotta be kidding. Dunleavy has gotten a lot of credit by everyone for his recent play.

Read what I wrote: http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2006/11/20/195442/74

Well I should be clear. Just in general I hate it when players flop. I couldn't stand watching Derek Fisher flop when he was with the Lakers several years back. It isn't anything specific about Dunleavy's flops. I just hate watching player's flop (especially guys over 6'8) and I think it's a cop out. Nellie even brought up Dun's flopping in his weekly interview with the Razor and Mr. T on KNBR calling them flops.

I thought in tonight's game against the Suns only 2 of the 5 offensive charges Dunleavy drew were legit. I couldn't believe the refs called the other 3. Was I unhappy the refs called them as offensive charges? NOPE. It helped the Warriors regardless of whether they were bad calls.

Listen to what Nellie said about Dunleavy flopping his recent interview on KNBR: http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2006/11/20/5439/0810

(It'd be fun to see ol' Atma take that last (fifth) charge Dun took last night; I'm not sure he'd be able to get up after -- tho in Dun's case, it still must have been a "flop" one can chuckle over.)

That has to be the most foolish thing I've ever seen anyone write on this site. It'd be more fun to see you actually stop making outlandish arguments that have no basis and actually try to discuss and deal with the questions and challenges that DJ Fuzzy Logic and I have brought up numerous times. It's easy to win an argument if you misrepresent what the other person is saying, put words in their mouth, and ignore their points.

Open you eyes and watch the game, haters, cuz what Dun's been doing -- quite consistently, thank you -- for that past 4-5 games now is gonna count big-time if the guys keep playing (and stay uninjured) as they have. I'm really not sure what more one could ask for from a sixth man than what Dun's been doing lately.

I think you're just trying to start an argument for argument's sake just so you can defend your boy Dunleavy. He's played well and he's gotten credit.

I'm honestly pretty disappointed in this post johnl. You're picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight. I enjoy your analysis when it isn't negative. You know the guidelines. Please follow them.

And to address the useful part of your post:

In the long run I'd look to move both. Murphy doesn't fit with this run and gun style. You know what you're going to get from him most nights. A lot of rebounds, some low percentage scoring from a power forward, and absolutely no defense. That's extremely valuable to other teams, but I don't think it's so hot for this particular Warriors team.

Dunleavy has never put together a good complete season. Who knows if this recent stretch of play will continue? I hope it does, but we know from his career as a whole up to this point that he's not a good shooter, he's a poor rebounder, a below average defender, and a solid half court passer (but not spectacular- he has had his fair share of turnovers). His recent play has been the opposite of that. If I were the Warriors I wouldn't bank on that becoming a mainstay. He's 26 now. Players don't usually don't radically change.

One's things for sure. Dunleavy and Murphy should never be on the court at the same time. They can be both be useful contributors, but if they're positioned to be better than a 4th option or counted on to do much on the defensive end in the long run this team is doomed.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 21, 2006 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Regarding being 26

I have heard many players from the NBA who say it takes 5 years in the league for a player to really understand what he is doing. Mullie says the prime years of an NBA player is 26-32, and he has made the argument for the past few years that the Warriors have not reached their prime. You keep referring to the past with all the Warrior players which I think is unfair, these players have played for 3 different coaches in the last 4 years, each time being asked to do different things, fill different roles.
At the end of this year you may be right about Dunleavy I don't know but to suggest that he is certain to fall back because he has done it in the past has no merit, he is being coached by a different coach, playing a different system and asked to do different things. All I know is that Nellie has said his two best players from a basketball sense are Baron and Mike Dunleavy. I trust Nellie more than anyone else on his opinion of a player.

by wushi on Nov 21, 2006 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Get serious, Atma. . . .

First, read your many posts during the game last night. The VAST majority that mentioned Dun focused on this so-called "flopping" -- the most back-handed of "compliments." Where -- and how often -- did you make comments about his special plays (of which I mentioned only three, I believe, though there were more)? Dun should have been congratulated for taking the charges -- you seemed more concerned with making a silly (there goes the "ha-ha" again) repeated statement that the refs were being duped. If you don't think Dun was getting position, and then getting run over, you're out in cloud-cuckoo-land. The only "2 out of 5" for MD last night was for his threes.

Second, guidelines? My point re your mis-focus on what you -- from your safe seat -- perceive to be hilarious flops was "the most foolish thing [you've] ever seen anyone write of the site?" My, my. And this from the guy who endlessly repeated the hoary -- and totally false -- mantra that Dun specifically and personally called out BD for his poor play last year. And here I thought you'd been put straight as to that crock months ago. Or am I "misrepresenting your argument" on that, too?

Third, I agree Dun's never played a good full season -- and confessed my "bias" re saying I thought he was on his way, even tho he's only had 4-5 good games in a row, but he's hardly the only one. If BD's ever had a good full season, it was with a losing team -- and certainly not the W's. JRich had a good season last year. That's about it on this team.

And with Dun, you still don't get it that the WAY the team plays -- teamball or streetball -- directly affects how well Dun plays. He isn't becoming good all of a sudden; the team play Nellie's bringing ALLOWS him to play well, within that concept. I'll be the first to agree he's got to keep rebounding, but he's been consistently good the past few weeks -- and you make comments (like the "flopping" fixation) that only cheapen those improving performances.

Finally, with Baron and Monta out, and JRich totally lacking confidence in his shot, I was hoping the final pass in last night would rotate to Mike, since he'd played a helluva game, taken a physical beating, hit some key shots at the end (especially that one from the top of the key), and should have been primed for a catch and shoot three. It didn't happen, and I certainly don't begrudge JR taking an open shot, even given his current woes, but I wonder how you would have reacted if Dun had taken -- and hit -- that shot. (I know only too well how you would have reacted had he missed it.)

So, Atma, don't get your shorts all in a knot when someone calls you on your comments. If you're gonna put that out there, you gotta be able to take the heat. I must say, though, that apart from the anti-Dun fixation, your other work on the site -- including your recent interview with Tim K (who in his blog today notes how valuable Dun is compared to certain others on the team, cuz he's so multi-dimensional) -- is very good and has helped make this a valuable site overall.

(BTW, if Murph's talents are, in fact, "extremely valuable to other teams," why wouldn't anyone take him last year when Mully was constantly shopping him? He wasn't base year, like Dun. Maybe the other GMs saw through those "valuable" commodities. Maybe it was because his salary is so high -- even when compared with Dun's. Who knows?)

by johnl on Nov 21, 2006 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay...

Like I've already said numerous times- I hate it when anyone flops, but if the refs are calling it keeping doing it. Those flops were helping the team out. Even Nellie calls them flops.

And this from the guy who endlessly repeated the hoary -- and totally false -- mantra that Dun specifically and personally called out BD for his poor play last year.

Dunleavy called out the "all stars". If you can't figure out that that's a shot at BD and JRich there's nothing I can do for you.

Dunleavy also called out his previous coaches saying that they flat out didn't use him correctly. Hmmm, seems like a strange thing for a ROLE PLAYER to say. If you're going to hype him up acknowledge his mistakes.

Or am I "misrepresenting your argument" on that, too?

Let's not get into how many times you've misrepresented my points and others. That would just take too long.

Well, I guess you don't know me then. If Dunleavy took and missed that shot, I wouldn't have been mad at him. He came to play last night and I think I've made the abundantly clear. He had a reasonably hot hand yesterday, having him take that last shot wouldn't have been a bad idea.

So, Atma, don't get your shorts all in a knot when someone calls you on your comments

Funny you should say that. Look through all the posts on this site. Saying that I don't welcome or appreciate feedback and criticism is completely untrue. What I DO NOT appreciate is your continual shots, misrepresentation of what I say, and putting words in my mouth. I also find it funny how you never step up to the plate and answer DJ Fuzzy Logic and I when we critique your claims without any merit. Instead you ignore them and just blurt out more of your biased views.

You are obviously an elder statesmen on GSoM. It shocks me that you bring so much negativity and mean spirits that kids half your age on this site don't bring.

And finally basketball...

I think it just boils down to contract. Murphy could help a lot of other teams.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 21, 2006 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Gee Atma. . .

Tho there's so much one could say in response to this -- and I admit I'm sorely tempted to set it straight again -- let me just repeat what I said when you guys were falling all over yourselves on the "white boy" references. To borrow from the Bard in Hamlet: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

by johnl on Nov 21, 2006 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Once again you failed to acknowledge someone's valid points. And once again you made a false accusation with the "white boy" references that was shot down.

I expected more from you man. What a let down!

If this is your way of waiving the white flag I accept. Haha

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 21, 2006 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's "waving" but. . . .

I've made my points, and am content to leave this to your final, inscrutable "ha-ha" -- tho it comes across more as rhetorical simply another example of Atma "flopping" (or "shooting down" of strawmen, yet again, as the case may be).

by johnl on Nov 22, 2006 8:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

with most of what your sayin

by travisl212 on Nov 21, 2006 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If you don't flop in the NBA

then you will get the foul called against you. It is that simple, which is why Biedrins and Pietrus have so many fouls called against them because they don't fall back and flop.
Last night Biedrins had a foul called against him because his defender who had no chance to stop him flopped and Biedrins was called for a foul, a play in which dunked the ball, a very costly foul against the Warriors.

by wushi on Nov 21, 2006 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hating?

i think people have been nothing BUT anxious, excited, and hopeful about his recent play. if you track back in all the open threads, recaps, etc, everyone is impressed and satisfied that he is becoming a great teammate, better defender, and assertive player. i know i have been and i've only seen two televised games--check my recaps.

by dj fuzzylogic on Nov 21, 2006 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

You certainly HAVE been more reasoned in your Dun-related comments. It's ol' Atma's continuing jabs -- like that absolutely non-sensical "flopping" preoccupation -- that cause me to criticize, especially given that Dun's game, last night anyway, is precisely what one should want from the guy (other than for the TOs): 16 points on 50% plus shooting, seven RBs, five assists, even a steal along with taking five charges -- and helping to keep the team in the game till the end. THERE's the real story re Dun last night. I still think if he'd allow himself to see it, he'd enjoy it.

by johnl on Nov 21, 2006 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

check again...

actually, if you really read his comments, Atma is also happy about Dun's recent success. Several times in the last few weeks (including in his quick pts in the comments section), Atma doesn't 'blast' dunleavy, but was very much impressed with his shooting and passing for the 3rd game in a row (regardless of having 6-7 TOs). In fact, last week Atma is quoted as saying that if he continues playing that Dun could very well be a part of his team. But does Atma have to believe that Dun is the answer? No. Does he have to be on his jock 24/7? No. really, you need to give this Dun boosterism a rest, its really getting old.

by dj fuzzylogic on Nov 21, 2006 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Dun watch

"i think people have been nothing BUT anxious, excited, and hopeful about his recent play"
If I've been anxious it's only because I'm hoping he doesn't play just well enough to stick around! I've seen his ups and downs too much over the last couple of years to expect him to ever be worth the trouble and cost. I'd rather see him crash and burn decisively and move on. I think our hopes and patience could pay off better on another player. I just think he's too average, fair at everything but not great at anything, passing over rated (musta been a telegraph operator in another life), soft inside, slow (like a dog lost on a highway of speeding Suns!), not much imagination, mechanical in play making, and finally no quirky personality to temper the faults,(unlike pietrus who I'm hoping will get it and will stay)

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 21, 2006 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

dunleavy

has been nothing but consistant. 4-5 games playing somewhere between average and pretty good with a few plays that were nice or really good. i mean we're talking about 4-5 games playing pretty good after a lousy few years. dunleavy is playing good and he's getting his props but its not like he's been phenominal or anything. ill admit last night he did play very well. but those flops were pretty funny. and don't act like you've been on dunleavys side since day one, and if you have been well then.... wow.

by travisl212 on Nov 21, 2006 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Quickies

Even though the Dubs lost a heartbreaker that was ONE exciting game.

D-Lights!

Monta with back to back 31 point nights! Simply amazing. That dunk says it all.
Nellie has found a perfect role for Mickael Pietrus and he's bought into it. Last night MP2 brought the scoring (24 points on some hot shooting/ dunking), defense (5 blocks! + 1 steal), and glass work (8 boards). Coach Nelson knows Pietrus' strengths and plays to them. He doesn't yank him out every time he makes a mistake. Unlike under Monty last season, Pietrus has room to breathe.
Nice job on the boards by Biedrins, but there were a few unnecessary fouls. Not bad though.
Dunleavy is shooting better than I've ever seen him. He was aggressive and scoring big in the 1st quarter. I wish he kept up that scoring pace, but overall he played a good game. Too many turnovers, but you have to live with those without BD and no legit backup PG.

A few things to work on...

No Baron Davis really hurt. There were way too many turnovers (Pietrus 4, Biedrins 5, Monta 5, Dunleavy 6)
It was tough watching JRich miss that good look to tie the game with a 3. Very, very tough. Everything was right except for his lift. I'm guessing he has the ups early in the game, but his knee gest really tired as the game progresses.
Close out those 3 point shooters. Barbosa and Bell had too many easy looks which essentially cost the Dubs the game. The Suns shot 44.8% from downtown- ouch.
The Suns big men pretty much had their way with the Warriors. Diaw, Marion and Stoudemire ad good games. Stoudemire didn't look dominant like he did 2 years ago against the Warriors though. If he keeps getting better, it's over.
Get a backup PG- Monta is an ideal combo guard, but the Warriors need someone to spell Baron and him. I don't think McLeod's the answer. Roberson is more of a shooter than a distributor too.
Creating cap room for the future. Anyone else find it odd that a huge chunk of the Warriors is tied to players like Foyle and Murphy who are the reason for this past 5 game winning streak? Throw in Dunleavy's contract and I think we should all worry about keeping what looks like a good thing so far.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 21, 2006 10:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The only contract we have to worry about

is Foyle's. If we can get rid of his, then all the others fit into the budget. Ellis is not a problem since no other team can pay him more than the Warriors, same with Pietrus. Cabarkava or however you spell is name is done next year, we don't need Roberson or McLeod. I am not the least bit concerned about that, the players we want to keep will stay, the others, who cares?

by wushi on Nov 21, 2006 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, we agree. . .

Other than for that final, gratuitous comment (especially since Dun's been such an integral part of the TEAM's progress these past weeks), that is. This team needs a guy who can come off the bench and fill a whole bunch of holes, like he's been doing.

But I'll happily take the improvement in increments -- so long as the improvement continues.

by johnl on Nov 21, 2006 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you have got to be kidding me.

at this point, you are being ridiculous if you check the time this was posted, this was done far before your rants about how Atma doesn't love Dun like you do. i know language tends to get misrepresented online cuz you can never tell the tone, but are you picking on us (esp. Atma) because we didn't mention Dun FIRST on the list of praises? Maybe i'm reading it wrong, but it seems that you are assuming that the last comment about Dun was just "tacked on" for the sake of being respectful to the rest of the Dun lovers out there? Really Johnl, give it rest. If you haven't realized that we're happy with Dun's progress or feel that our praise isn't enough, he should start playing like he has been this season for an extended period of time (like you mentioned, a whole season). this conversation is beginning to sound like an on-going argument i had with an ex-girlfriend who continually said she didn't believe me when i said I was sorry for arriving to a dinner late and complained that my apology didn't "sound legitimate"...how could she tell that it wasn't a real apology or not? ...and after a while, the only response I had was "what is your point?"

by dj fuzzylogic on Nov 21, 2006 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, Man. . .

What's YOUR point? I thot mine was pretty clear. Dun had a terrific game last night -- but for the TOs -- and, at times, kept the W's in it when the momentum was shifting against them. He shot well; he rebounded; he had five dimes, a steal and took five charges. (Can you imagine what it's like to get run over by Diaw?) And your boy's game comments re Dun were as follows.

One commended his early shooting, but with the tag "Dunleavy 4-5?" (Now who else gets a question mark but Dun from Atma? Probably a weak stab at humor, but has Dun's shooting percentage been at all bad the past few weeks?)
One comment was that Dun got way with drawing a fould on Marion; no further explanation. Certainly not a compliment.
Three complained about "flopping" and cut down the refs for the calls (but we'll take it, Atma sniffed). Once he referred to them as "awful flops."
Finally, he complained about two Dun TOs in the second half, cutting against an otherwise good game.

Nothing about the give and go to Monta; or that rebound he somehow pulled down out of a pack when he was able to flip it out to Monta who, without breaking stride, went in for the monster dunk; or the shot from the top of the key near the end of the game -- when all W's had been missing outside shots and no one was doing anything; nothing about the two key threes he did hit.

Now, one doesn't have to say Dun is the best thing since sliced bread. He's not. And he wasn't the best W last night; he was third or fourth. However, he still played a really good game last night, and to read those comments by Atma caused me to respond. (Altho, please note, my distate for Atma's preoccupation with panning MD hardly precludes my ability to laud his other efforts -- which you must have missed, I guess.)

But given your "protective" post, you raise another point. Can't Atma defend himself? He actually does a better job than you, because -- whether intentional or not -- you seem not to have grasped anything I've said, and your inferences are uniformly off the wall. (Too typical of a protective mother hen.) Fair enough, because as you say, it's hard to read "tone" but your misreads are so constant one wonders. . .What YOUR point?

I say let's just give Dun some time, and try to bite our lips when the urge to dump on Dun strikes. By mid-season we'll all know whether he can maintain what he's shown the last few weeks. (And we'll also know then whether BD can keep it up and JRich can come back.) I'm happy to give it a rest if you guys are too. What say you?

by johnl on Nov 21, 2006 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

my point is..

"What's YOUR point? I thot mine was pretty clear. Dun had a terrific game last night -- but for the TOs -- and, at times, kept the W's in it when the momentum was shifting against them. He shot well; he rebounded; he had five dimes, a steal and took five charges. (Can you imagine what it's like to get run over by Diaw?) And your boy's game comments re Dun were as follows." did we not acknowledge that he played well? do you actually read our recent posts or JUST read for the negatives so you can then accuse us of being negative? if you noticed in Atma's quick points in the comments section, he says: "Dunleavy is shooting better than I've ever seen him. He was aggressive and scoring big in the 1st quarter. I wish he kept up that scoring pace, but overall he played a good game. Too many turnovers, but you have to live with those without BD and no legit backup PG." yes, he critiques his turnovers, but its bound to happen and we gotta deal with it. are you going to spin this and say that we didn't call it a "great game"? I find it interesting that you didn't engage with these comments, or any of anyone else's comments--mine included--that were impressed. I'm not just 'protective' of Atma, I'm rather surprised that someone like yourself, who prides himself in their superior 'maturity,' chooses to selectively read EVERYONE's posts on these boards--only responding to the comments that DON'T support your singular narrative of dun-love. Your selective attention reminds me of the college students i happen to teach for an American History course, who don't get the main point but instead read for things that satisfy the narratives and myths of american exceptionalism that they are so wedded to. They then get so mad when they don't get A's because they refused to wrestle with the main concepts, ideas of the course. Again, we are all in agreement that Dun is playing better, but you AGAIN refuse to see that EVER. That is my point.

by dj fuzzylogic on Nov 21, 2006 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

Finally a period to this discussion.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 21, 2006 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

Touche. . . .and ouch! The logic. The rapier sharp wit. The pedagogical style. Brilliant! Outstanding! (Next time, though, Fuzz, read and respond to the entirety of the WORDS of the poster with whom you disagree; don't just go with your gut on fantasy inferences conveniently drawn in order to protect an indefensible position, or partner -- you then sound more like your students than the teacher. Context, context, context.)

Now, how 'bout them Warriors! Maybe we can get back to something even we agree upon: we like this TEAM. Big game tonight. Let's see how they do.

by johnl on Nov 22, 2006 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

cap room

hey atma,

i'm with you...i know it's early, but for some reason, because of our success, i'm already worried/interested about how we're going to keep biedrins, pietrus, and ellis.

fortunately, i think nellie is going to continue to get into a rotation groove...and it will become evident by mid-season who fits into the long term plans and who will have to go.

i like all of our players....but i agree that T-Double is probably a better fit elsewhere. if dunleavy keeps it up....i don't think his money will be so outrageous.

i guess my question for you and others out there...without making jabs....what are realistic trade scenarios?

we're allowed to trade people for just picks, right? if so, i'm thinking we might have to go that route with someone like T-Double...because that last thing we need is to take back contracts and i doubt someone would give us an expiring contract for him.

also...just for fun...i'm wondering who is the guy that you don't want to see go...but would be willing to give up because you think it'll get you something in return?

the awesome thing about nellie...is i think he's making everyone look better for trades.

by TMC Forever on Nov 21, 2006 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's a good topic

I get the feeling that these guys could be had for the right price if not now, by the trade deadline:

Gerald Wallace
Brevin Knight
Ray Allen
Rashard Lewis
Anyone on the Knicks (although Marbury, Francis, Crawford, and Robinson wouldn't help out)
Paul Pierce
Drew Gooden
Kevin Garnett (I think the Wolves will finally come to their senses)
Jermaine O'Neal (he's not a legit superstar, but a legit star big man)

I think all of these guys could help out the Warriors in some way. As far as moving those big Warrior contracts it's going to take a lot of creativity.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 21, 2006 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A package of...

consisting of Diogu, Murphy, & J-Rich for Kevin Garnett would probably work, but geez, that's an awful lot.

But, that would give us a starting line-up of:

PG: Baron Davis
SG: Monta Ellis
SF: Mikael Peitrus
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Andres Biedrens

6th man: Dunleavy

If a line-up like that doesn't get the Warriors into the playoffs, I don't know what would.

I think if the Dubs stand pat, a line-up of Baron, Ellis, J-Rich, Peitrus, & Andres probably gets that 8th seed.

by bigcity7 on Nov 21, 2006 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Gilbert who?

The Man is Monta The Money Ellis The next I buy a Warriors jersey it will have a #8 on it. Where was the foul call on that dunk,Barbosa is all over his arm. The Suns were lucking no BD,we would have killed them with BD. If Money wouldn't have pulled a muscle at the end,you never know it might have been Warriors by 3.

by Psion on Nov 21, 2006 11:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

not just that

but on Monta's final drive to the hoop when he got the cramps, he was man-handled by the Matrix. Awful non-call.

by GSWorriers on Nov 21, 2006 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Regarding Monta a Baron,

Any news on their "injuries"? Are they going to be on tomorrow or is it a day-to-day situation with both of them?

by Jaime Novoa on Nov 21, 2006 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Who said they wanted Iverson?

The Warriors have the younger version with Monta Ellis. Not a PG, or a SG. A combo guard who has the potential to surpass the accomplishments of Iverson and Arenas. Pair him up with a tall, defensive minded SG, and the you've got your future backcourt for the next 7 years.

I'd move Murphy for an expiring contract, and just buy out Foyle. Two guys who are servicable, who may have value elsewhere (Murphy definitely has value), but don't fit in with the run and gun Warriors. Diogu is a better fit, and can be that low post scorer that this team needs.

I'd also look to move Dunleavy while his stock is high (maybe now the Clips would go for a Dunleavy-Maggette deal), but for now he has 'found himself' as a 6th man, and is contributing nicely.

Ellis
Biedrins
Diogu

are the three that must be extended. Peitrus would be a good to keep, but not at the expense of the aforementioned three.

by bigcity7 on Nov 21, 2006 12:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thoughts, Rambles, Opinions

I do not agree with bigcity7. I think Mike Dunleavy is doing great as a 6th man. He may be one of the best 6th men in the NBA right now. He comes off the bench and immediately makes an impact. He rebounds and he passes, and he can handle the ball and play multiple positions. He draws more charges than any other Warrior. What's wrong with that? Nellie is giving him confidence, so his shot is beginning to fall quite regularly.

However, I'm beginning to wonder about Ike. He is not contributing too much to the team when he is healthy. And he is injured quite a bit for a young player. I think he has to prove himself at this point.

Andris may well become one of the best big men in the NBA in a few years. He is a game changer right now.

Monta looks a little like MJ did in his first few years.

MP is playing better. He just needs to develop some more consistency. He still has long stretches where he just seems to disappear on the floor.

Troy is a big question mark. He just seems so slow compared to the rest of the team. He seems to slow down the whole flow of the game when he goes in. He might be a consideration for a trade.

I still think Zarko will fit in great once he gets healthy. Just watch!

by pineriver on Nov 21, 2006 12:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Some thoughts from Suns folks and NBA Blogs

Suns thoughts

The Rising Suns: http://phoenixsunsrising.blogspot.com/2006/11/suns-finish-off-warriors.html
The Suns Blog: http://www.thesunsblog.com/?p=252

And in the funniest least important news item of the day, Boris Diaw respects American women: http://sunsgossip.blogspot.com/2006/11/miss-sunsgossip-talks-to-boris-diaw.html (from SunsGossip)

NBA thoughts:

Monta Ellis and Bobby Brown: Two Studs in the Mold of Baron Davis: http://jonesonthenba.blogspot.com/2006/11/monta-ellis-and-bobby-brown-lesson-in.html (Jones on the NBA)
Monta is the truth!: http://jonesonthenba.blogspot.com/2006/11/monta-is-truth.html(Jones on the NBA)

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 21, 2006 12:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

That dunk....

I WAS SO MAD THAT IT DIDNT MAKE SPORTSCENTER TOP 10!!!!! I was totally camping out the tv during sportscenter just waiting... for the Top 10 and sure enough... Warriors get NO LOVE!!!! It's ok... the rest of the country can just sleep on the Warriors and then Monta will just rip a savage dunk on all of them like he did last night!!!

by ZombieWarrior on Nov 21, 2006 12:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

NBA TV

Fitz said it made NBA TV number 1 play for the night, at least some luv from there.

by Athletix Man on Nov 21, 2006 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And ESPN, too!

Monta's glorious jam made the "jam of the day" on ESPN yesterday. In fact, they replayed it on SportsCenter four times: first from the Dun rebound and pass and Monta drive, then three separate shots of Monta finishing. Maybe they were making up for their Monday Top 10.

by johnl on Nov 22, 2006 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The defense

wasnt great all night and honestly i like it better that way. But on that last play, i hate to call out my man j-rich like this, he pretty much held still as his man screened nash's defender. Nash came right around and fired from the arc as J-rich stood around the free throw line. I am much happier with the way the warriors have played this season, but the win streak could still be alive if we had stepped up for one last play. Given it was a pretty nice shot by nash and its just as likely he could have knocked it in no matter what the defense did. But we didnt make it hard for him

by FoyledAgain on Nov 21, 2006 1:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

This is what I've been talking about...

We get no respect from the refs in the league. As you can see from the poster Barbosa is PULLING DOWN on Ellis' arm... which absolutely looked like a foul to me. Yet Barbosa can go in on the other end and fly past the basket... fall to the ground on his on accord and get a foul on a watching Jason Richardson? That wasn't the only mis-call (Beans' washed ft, the other fouls on the driving Warrors, the traveling that I saw the Suns commit but didn't get called for, the offensive foul they called on Beans... I could go on) but it was the most blatant. Enough about that... For those who were at the game... didn't that scream "PLAYOFF BASKETBALL!" especially the way that the Oracle was rockin last night. I mean everyone was on their feet and I can't remember a time, out of all the games I've been to, where we've been louder than last night. Great "PLAYOFF" atmosphere. And I wonder if anyone heard me yell "WEAK SAUCE" anytime Steve Nash touched the ball... It was great! It will be now be a norm for every game I go to... I will yell out "WEAK SAUCE" at the team's best player! If anyone heard me let me know... cuz I was definately screaming it at the top of my lungs... especially in the first half. Overall great game.. especially considering that how we played w/o Davis.

by mightymadskillz on Nov 21, 2006 1:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Good Game

Great game from both teams. That zone almost worked but our zone busters were on point. I didn't think we were going to recover from that run capped by Ellis' insane dunk. The Suns were clearly shook but took it in stride. That arena was thumping.

Dan Majerle's plus/minus was through the roof last night. We were playing perfect until he left to announce for you. When he came back we were down by like 17 and began coming back. I knew he had some wicked mojo going for this team.

Boris Diaw reppin the triple double steez- eggs, crepes, and french toast. WHAT

by Lucas aka The Rising Suns on Nov 21, 2006 1:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

the good thing is

we have injuries and still could have played a little better and won this game and beat phoenix without baron. which shows how good this team is

by travisl212 on Nov 21, 2006 3:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Now that I look at the foul ..

where's the foul call?

The Suns got weak calls throughout the 4th quarter ..

by WarriorFanForLife on Nov 21, 2006 4:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

i agree

there were some phantom calls, I still think the whole free throw violation, it seemed like maybe those refs were from the phoenix area, but, great game none the less. I hope the Warriors build from it. Monta's dunk was unreal! I think I've watched the clip about 50 times already!

Big Tone

by tadams1080 on Nov 21, 2006 4:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

well

The free throw violation was called correctly. Because this year players can not break the 3 point line. You can thank Lebron in the playoffs against Gilbert for this. Both Barnes and Nash did this. I think it's weak that basically a double violation hurts the team shooting beacuse they lose the shot. Since it's a double penalty it should be a do over in my opinion.

by Athletix Man on Nov 21, 2006 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's weak

"that basically a double violation hurts the team shooting beacuse they lose the shot" A do over rule for double violations would make more sense to me too, but in this case it was a warriors advantage because it gave us a chance to get posession off the jumpball. If B'Dris makes it for a 1 point lead we still have to stop the Suns with no time left anyway.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 21, 2006 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hmmmm that dunk...

is giving me an idea... stay tuned...

by gsdubz on Nov 21, 2006 5:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

ok here it is...

that's the best shot i found of the dunk! hmmmmmm isn't barbosa's hand basically smothering ellis? he didn't get the call probably b/c the arena was shaking after this dunk, but WOW... i wish it was angled a lil better but i'll see what i can do for a webpin ;)

by gsdubz on Nov 21, 2006 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

scratch that

i just realized this pic is already in the recap!

by gsdubz on Nov 21, 2006 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

did...

anyone else laugh at the over dramatic offensive foul calls the refs displayed during the second half. they wanted to feel as if the crowd was cheering for them. hahahhaa.

by kenntoe on Nov 22, 2006 1:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs