Mother BLEEP the NBA/Stephen Jackson's shot/Dun. (cont)

by gsdubz on Dec 2, 2006 11:33 AM PST

3 posts in 1! I've got a lot on my mind so I'm making one long post so as to not flood the forums.

1. Mother BLEEP the NBA: East/West disparity/Disciplinary Discrimination/David STERN

So Bay Area fans, let's summarize where we are. We are 9-7, which is respectable and just outside of the playoff picture. In our hearts we are happy and know this is great, but in our minds we see that last year we were pretty close, approximately 12-9 when poop hit the fan and our season quickly went down the drain. So it is safe to say that this December, particularly the mega road trip, is the ultimate month to determine where we are and if we are for real. Guys, I don't know if you have thought about this or noticed it, but BASKETBALL CULTURE HAS DISSAPPEARED IN THE BAY AREA for over a decade. If/when this happens, and the Warriors start gaining true respect (and this will show in the referees calls which have been going way against us lately), then be prepared for a super change in the whole Bay Area. Man , I am getting so excited thinking about it.

I lived in So Cal for several years when I was an undergrad, and it made me sick
(cuz I was so jealous) of how huge the Laker/NBA culture is down there. Everyone and their mom and grandmom are into it, and it's not a matter of "are you watching the game tonight" but rather, "how many TV's are you watching the game on tonight"? When people talk about it the next day, they talk about "you see the game last night", and they don't need to specify what sport it was or what game, but rather, they just talk about the Lakers game. On behalf of the loyal Warrior fans who refused to jump the Lakers/Sacramento bandwagons, please reward us humble citizens with a TRUE team of our own!

Now as we move on and continue the Warrior journey in December, I just want to talk about some serious issues that are affecting the NBA. The most concerning issue for me so far this season in the NBA has been the disparity between the Eastern and Western conference. Remember the old days when the playoffs were about the top 16 teams in the NBA battling it out? Unfortunately, that concept is no more. Two years ago, you needed to be 8 games over .500 in the West to make the playoffs. Last year, a team in the East made the playoffs 2 games under .500. Right now the East is more lopsided than ever before. For example, right now only Portland and Memphis, 2 out of 15 tams in the Western conference would NOT make the playoffs in the East. So this means that 13 out of 15 West teams are as good as if not better than the top 8 teams in the East.

This "handicap" of the Eastern conference has implications far greater than just the playoffs. In reality, it keeps some teams such as the A.I./Webber Sixers, the Paul Pierce Celtics, and the Frye/Marbury/Francis Knicks from realizing just how far from playoff quality they really are and prevents them from pulling the trigger on some trades to get the market going. This hurts more deserving teams like the Warriors because we are playing good but can't make the playoffs and can't get any good trades our way since so many teams are satisfied with their (unrealistic) standings.

So why is it that issues like this aren't addressed more often? Well, for one, the NBA is too busy treating their players like children or animals that they can't address the real issues the fans and players care about. The NBA is busy adjusting rules on fake basketballs that no one likes and giving technical fouls in excess to their players so as to keep them under control. What I find ridiculous is if a player gets nudged and gives a little return nudge he gets a technical? A player throws a ball on another player to make it go out of bounds on the opposing team, and the victim bats it away after the play and it's a technical? Both of these examples were B.D. technicals. The first one was his technical against the Pacers. The second one was against his former teammate in which case B.D. was protesting against the technical for his former teammate! I could hear him through the TV saying "no ref! That's my boy!" as if to tell the ref the technical was uncalled for and it just shows you where the priorities of the NBA really are: to battle and tame Black and Hip Hop culture in the NBA. It's as simple as that! It's black and white. I don't see this kind of stuff happening in hockey? In hockey, they can box and fight, and it's part of the game! If hockey was a black sport tomorrow, they'd probably send violaters to GUANTANAMO BAY!

Just an interesting side note, it's funny when they have a big time owner sporting a shirt that says "Property of David Stern University", andhe doesn't get any punishment for that. Well he hasn't as of right now anyways, if Mark Cuban does get fined later on, please let me know!

2. Stephen Jackson/Buzzer Beater/Why I still like him

My heart was broken on Wednesday night when Stephen Jackson made that 3 to win the game. I was there live and the crowd just sank. Many got up and left, without even waiting for the final 1.0 seconds to see if we could score again. We all know (as I noticed by the slow activity on GSoM since that shot), that we can't get over that shot until we win another game. But to be honest with you, there is one small good thing that came out of that, for me anyways, and that is that I was happy for Stephen Jackson, the man who made that spectacular clutch shot. As much as I hated him that night, I'm happy that despite what he's gone through with the politics of the NBA that he's kept his head up and kept his team strong along with Jermaine O'neal. After the big fight and then the gun incident, it could have gone bad, but he's a quality player and proves it. They really lucked out by landing Al Harrington and I don't think it would have happened if Stephen Jackson was not there. Please refer to a past article I posted in regards to David Stern calling Stephen Jackson a thug and asking players to "leave their guns at home":

http://goldenstateofmind.com/story/2006/10/25/221626/76

But Stephen Jackson, don't ever make a shot like that on us again, or Murphy will hit you with his mask!

3. Dunleavy/his supporter(no s) on GSoM

To wrap this 3 part post up, I just wanted to remind all of the GSoM faithful that we should still look to get rid of Dunleavy with any chance we get. The only reason's he's done anything good is because he's been hated and boo'd by his own team. I'd be playing half decent too if I sucked for 4 years, was paid 4 times what I was worth, and was hated by my own fans and the whole world finally heard about it on ESPN/TNT! We all know there is a very small minority of individuals on this site (who happen to be of the majority in society, as is Dun) who go to great lengths to defend him, which really upsets us normal unbiased DIVERSE fans who judge players on their ability and their character as human beings (aka, why we still try to show love for Adonal as much as we can, because he sucks but is a good man and never tries to call out his teammates.) So while you jane and jon(i) doh's stay anonymous and continue your schpiels about how Dun is great, or rather about how Rich and BD are not great in an attempt to use them as an excuse for Dun's overall failure as an NBA player, just know that a lot of us aren't that "thick" and can see right through your little posts. We gave him many chances, but it was probably because his FATHER was an excellent NBA coach and we were fooled by the name.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

u made some good points

but u lost them when u said people that defend dunleavy do so because he's white. there's no need to bring race into the argument. people defend him because they think he's a good player, i doubt it's because he's white

by AJC3317 on Dec 2, 2006 12:43 PM PST reply actions

i didn't lost anyone

speak for urself, not others. that's what i did.

by gsdubz on Dec 2, 2006 12:45 PM PST up reply actions

i mean lose not lost

ok u get my point. my point is we should all express our own perspective, and then read everyone else opinion. but thanks for the feedback.

by gsdubz on Dec 2, 2006 12:46 PM PST reply actions

well... I defend Dunleavy

because he is treated unfairly by the GSW nation. Everyone seems to use him as an outlet for their frustrations about the team as a whole.

And while I defend him, I strongly believe he needs to be traded ASAP. His contract needs to be gone so that Mullin can make room for AB and Monta... because they are our future. Not Dunleavy.

Dunleavy is cool.

by ZombieWarrior on Dec 2, 2006 12:59 PM PST reply actions

Wakka Wakka

On the 1st section, I'm white, and I agree with everything you've said. Mark Cuban should be commish.

by Zorgon on Dec 2, 2006 3:07 PM PST reply actions

Thanks...

Thanks for your input Zorgon, much appreciated :)

So what's up you settin up a backup signature icon or what? Just in case they buy him out?

by gsdubz on Dec 2, 2006 4:41 PM PST up reply actions

I'm afraid to release one

for fear people will think I've lost hope, which I haven't. Rember when I tried to try on another webpin? Disaster. When the time comes (2020, hopefully), it comes. But for now, it's Run Foyle, Run!!!!!!! All the way.

by Zorgon on Dec 2, 2006 4:57 PM PST up reply actions

Also

I'd need to find a new favourite Warrior. Criteria:

Player cannot be a punk. (Noone on this team, really.)

Player cannot have ever been on an All-Star squad more than once, or be in conseridation of that at time of picking (JRich, Baron Davis)

Player must not be ultra-popular and on the rise (Biedrins, Ellis).

Player cannot be universally hated (Mike Dunleavy.)

And then I decide from there.

Maybe Kosta Perovic?

by Zorgon on Dec 2, 2006 5:35 PM PST up reply actions

GSoM is losing

The assumption that fans like players because they are white, or not, or because the fans are "diverse" (assuming that is meant as non-white?) is insulting to everyone participating on this site. It's overly simplistic, and narrow minded.

Frankly, the racial insinuations floating around posts at GSoM simply turn me off from participating (posting or replying). (So do the occasional but nearly endless and unnecessarily nasty diatribes between individuals who either run the site or participate regularly... but that's off topic here).

Do fans have to be "diverse" to LOVE how Monta is playing? Do only "non-diverse" fans LOVE how Biedrins is playing? When people RIP INTO both Barren and Dundun for past let downs, what does that say? And now that both are playing better, those who point out one or the other's contributions must be racist? When people praise Diogu endlessly when he's done nothing to earn it this year, what assumption should people make? Give it a rest already!

Is Stern a racist because of the comments he makes? Who knows, ya - maybe. But let's assume we are better than that here. Let's not insinuate and/or name other participants in the GSoM community as racists ... that's gonna drive people away rather than bring anything positive to the site or discussions ...

As for me, there's a growing list of diariy authors I don't bother reading anymore. But maybe that's just me, maybe every one else enjoys this ...

by hardcore on Dec 2, 2006 3:27 PM PST reply actions

thanks jb

that was a much better way of putting what i tried to put lol.

by AJC3317 on Dec 2, 2006 3:46 PM PST up reply actions

good points

thanks for giving your own direct opinions. don't agree with them, but at least you aren't trying to speak for others.

by gsdubz on Dec 2, 2006 4:40 PM PST up reply actions

i think

that if you support all warriors players including dunleavy then that is cool with me but if you hate on baron but praise dunleavy call it anything you want racist or whatever i think its just lame

by travisl212 on Dec 3, 2006 12:48 PM PST up reply actions

ripped on both heavily

I've been pretty free with rip'n both of them - as well as Nelson, Ike, even being ready to package Beidrins and/or Monta to unload bad contracts last summer (which just shows how imperfect my analysis is!) ... but I see BD & MD completely differently ...

BD's skills are beyond question as far as I'm concerned, but I thought his lack of leadership last year was fuel to the fire that killed the team after it suffered some tough losses and the going got rough; he & Monty could not coexist for reasons well documented elsewhere and not all BDs fault. I forecasted last summer that if there wasn't a big roster move to bring in a strong leader then one of them had to go and Monty was it (and rightly so since BD couldn't be moved, Nelson was available and is a better fit for this roster).

Dunleavy lacks certain abilities and last year seemed to whine over every call. I like that he takes charges - some accuse him of flopping, but he's putting that skinny bag of bones in front of some faster moving, bigger guys and taking shots physically. Not being a shot blocker, not being able to get many steals, etc. it's his way of getting GS possessions on the defensive end. I can't stand that he is so inconsistent shooting, that he cant guard a telephone pole, or that he was given that fat contract.

But I blame Mullin for that mistake. I also forecast Mullin is the next one out when this team is rebuilding - again - if they miss the playoffs this year. His last chance to make improvements is the trading deadline. Nelson makes the roster more watch-able, more entertaining, maybe even more competitive - we'll see. But this roster is so flawed even he's unable to mask all its holes. That is Mullin.

by hardcore on Dec 3, 2006 6:49 PM PST up reply actions

i have to agree with the racism

if hockey was a predominately black sport that was associated with hip hop like basketball then whenever there was a fight people would look at them as gang members and thugs.

the dunleavy post i couldnt agree more. people hated BD last year cuz he wasn't playing that well and he was injured. c'mon he was plagued with injuries the entire year yet some of those people supported dunleavy who completely sucked for 3 years. Baron - injured - didn't play too well - one season. Dunleavy - completely healthy - completely sucked - 3 seasons. Who are you gonna support. I'll admit dunleavy has played better this year but he's still not great and he's so inconsistant. The whole thing about being diverse and unbiased and how to correctly judge a player was completely true. i love adonal to death because he tries hard and he's a great person and he doesnt back down. i also love beidrins for the same reason beidrins is just more talented.

by travisl212 on Dec 3, 2006 12:45 PM PST reply actions

Thanks bud

Thanks a lot, I think if everyone speaks for themself on these forums we can really feel out our Bay Area Warrior community. Some stuff the owners of this site just can't throw out there like we can!

by gsdubz on Dec 3, 2006 1:34 PM PST up reply actions

Section 3

It's too bad that the race card has been played here. It's too bad that (assuming you don't post here for a living!) you've nothing better to do than accuse Dunleavy supporters of being racists.
It's too bad that your outlook on life apparently leads you to inject race into the most innocent of discussions. It's too bad that you can't judge people's motives for support or non-support of W's players in any light, such as performance, other than race. It's too bad that racism is kept alive by people who should most want it to end.

I'm white, I don't care for Dunleavy (as some of my previous posts indicate) and I admit that I've not suffered the effects of racism to any great extent during my life. Nevertheless, I like to think that if I were a minority, I'd try to pursue Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream of a colorblind society instead of trying to find racism in every nook and cranny of life. And, even if I were looking to play the race card at every opportunity, the last place I'd look is on GSoM. We all want a winner here, whether the players to get us there are white, black, brown or any shade in between. To assert that preference for players is based on their race is preposterous.

Let's concentrate on legitimate discussions of how the Warriors are doing and conjecture of what could make them better, not accuse each other of unfounded racism. That doesn't "stir the pot" in a helpful manner.

Optimist

by believer on Dec 3, 2006 4:08 PM PST reply actions

Goto school

There's no such thing as a "race card" in America. It's funny how you can pick and choose what's labeled as "pulling out a card". How about if I go to the airport and tell them to stop the "terrorist card" and to stop scanning each person that enters the terminal. That would obviously be dumb because terrorism exists so we must deal with, hence, racism exists and this, to me in my own personal opinion, is definitely worth DISCUSSING. If you have an opinion, share it, like the others, rather than to say that we should not even speak of the topic.

Amen.

by gsdubz on Dec 3, 2006 4:15 PM PST up reply actions

Excuse me

but I thought this site was to discuss the Warriors. What does your opinion that some posters favor Dunleavy because he's white have to do with the makeup and performance of the team? Whichever posters you're talking about have abolutely no influence on who's on the team nor on who plays, even if (and this is stretching it a whole lot)you're right. BTW, how about if I turn it around on you and charge that you DON'T support Dunleavy for the simple fact that he's white? You like BD and JRich and Monta. I think you don't like Dun because he's white and, therefore, you're a racist. See how ridiculous that is? I have no more to go on in calling you a racist than you do in accusing others of racism.

And there certainly is such a thing as the race card. Like Jesse Jackson going to IL to charge racism before all the facts were known because some black students were suspended from a high school for fighting at a school football game. When video became available, it was clear that all the participants in the fight were indeed started by black students. Hence, the race card was played without cause.

There are innumerable other examples of unwarranted charges of racism. There are some valid ones, as well, and they should be dealt with. But your tactic of charging racism without an iota of evidence does nothing to help the situation. Your OPINION that some posters here like Dunleavy solely because he's white has no legitimacy whatsoever.

Again, I wonder why you brought it up in the first place. And it's my opinion that unfounded charges of racism should not take place on this site. If you want to discuss race, then label your subject appropriately so that it can be either read or avoided by other posters.

I hope we can get past this and spend more time discussing the state of the Warriors. That's why I come here.

Optimist

by believer on Dec 3, 2006 10:52 PM PST up reply actions

Thank you

Thank you for showing us your true colors. I don't like Dunleavy because I'm a racist. That's exactly it. Excellent observation believer. Thank you for exemplifying what a non-educated individual with internet access sounds like. Good 'ol free Wi-Fi.

by gsdubz on Dec 4, 2006 7:10 PM PST up reply actions

uneducated? who?

lol - so anyone who doesn't agree with you must be uneducated! Ah, everything's so clear now, only you have the correct view, only you can judge what is in other people's minds and hearts and over WiFi no less.

In case you missed it, or didn't comprehend it fully, believer wrote:

See how ridiculous that is? I have no more to go on in calling you a racist than you do in accusing others of racism.

Clearly he is NOT calling you a racist, but pointing out the fallacy in your logic.

by hardcore on Dec 4, 2006 10:11 PM PST up reply actions

Thanks

for the support, JB.

Optimist

by believer on Dec 4, 2006 11:27 PM PST up reply actions

Oh, you got me on that one!

I used that as an example of the ridiculousness of your charge that some white posters here who happen to favor Dun are racist. Read the post again. Or maybe you just don't get irony. Look it up in the dictionary, if you have one. Talk about uneducated which, BTW, is yet another of your unfounded allegations.

Optimist

by believer on Dec 4, 2006 10:13 PM PST up reply actions

OK... I'll bring myself down..

Since you are both using your race as leverage here, (notice how I haven't disclosed mine), why don't you do this: find me a non-white Dunleavy fan, and then I'll stop.

Don't worry, NO RUSH. ha! Cuz it won't happen!

This was really a MINISCULE part of my LENGTHY post which dealt with many topics. For some reason it bothered you guys so much you had to beat down on that small section and force me down to your level. So much sensitivity... I almost sense insecurity from you guys.

P.S. This is just a debate, not intended to be offensive or serious, so if you take it that way, I'm sorry. I don't take your responses as offensive. We're all from the Bay Area, we're all W's fans, and we should all be able to express our opinions, not surpress them. If I ever had a chance to meet you guys at a Warrior function, I think it would be cool. I enjoy posting and commenting on the forum, but I really enjoy socializing and debating in person with all types of people of all different beliefs and backgrounds, so I don't want you to think I'm just babbling behind my PC. Anyways, you guys can get the last word, and I'll move on to another hot post OK?

Peace.

by gsdubz on Dec 4, 2006 11:48 PM PST up reply actions

OK

I'll take the opportunity to post, hopefully, the last word on this. It's hard not to take personally what you've said when you use words like "non-educated" and that I (or we) have "forced me down to your level" and that we're using our race as leverage (explain that one to me, please. I said I'm white and I DON'T support Dun). I volunteered to state my race and I never asked you for yours, because it doesn't matter to me. AND you either didn't take the time to read one of my previous posts or you deliberately misinterpreted it to accuse me of calling you a racist. Plus your comments about sensitivity and insecurity in your last post just don't seem at all conciliatory to me. Plus, I've never labeled you or called you a name.

Also, your comment about finding a non-white Dunleavy fan doesn't really reinforce your point.

See, I don't care if you voice your opinion on anything here and I never said you couldn't. But you have to expect that others have a right to their opinion and to express it, as well, when their opinions differ from yours. IMNSHO, though, discussions should be kept civil and on as much an intellectual level as possible, without name-calling or accusations.

All that being said, I'd welcome at least chatting with you at a W's game, although I don't get to too many. I think you'd find that we have a lot more in common than it would appear from these posts.

Speaking of the W's, the Spurs game tonight was a disaster. Better days ahead, I hope.

Optimist

by believer on Dec 5, 2006 3:06 AM PST up reply actions

don't bring yourself down

I wouldn't use my race as leverage here even if I thought I could or it would do any good to do so, and like you I haven't posted it - from my view, it doesn't matter as a GS fan and GSoM member (which was my whole point). Of course race matters in America. There is no disputing that from this corner.

Finding "a non-white" fan who likes Dunleavy, or any other player (white or not), "proves" nothing about players who do like him. The faulty logic is apparent, despite linkages in your mind.

I don't care that you brought up race, in fact it's important to me. I do call you out for insinuating others are racists. There's a difference. It may be subtle to some. The fact is you are the one who raised it, asked for feedback, and now don't want to hear any more from those who's opinions differ from your own and who you label as uneducated. Don't put it out there then.

As far as anyone stooping down to "levels," your original post set the level. You don't have to bring yourself, or the rest of us, down to that level.

by hardcore on Dec 5, 2006 11:34 PM PST up reply actions

JB...

JB I hear you man, thanks for being clear here and letting me know your thoughts. My whole point is to get each individual to speak for themselves, so, I won't speak for anyone else, but I want to be heard, and you do the same, and I'll respect your opinion. Although I did notice you took exception to my post here on your comment in the JRich trade rumor post.

Heads up: I responded to it earlier, and might have been a little steamed. But I'm pretty sure it was a mature and professional response, because I never take debating that seriously, which I'm glad because your response was much more mature here. Anyways, I think I'm done with all of this stuff ...

(for now)

;)

by gsdubz on Dec 5, 2006 11:44 PM PST up reply actions