Mike Dunleavy at the 4?

by Atma Brother ONE on Sep 29, 2006 10:43 AM PDT in Science Comment 27 comments

Our new starting Power Forward?

Unless Don Nelson is pulling a fast one on the media, the rest of the league, and Warriors Nation it looks like GSoM favorite Mike Dunleavy (hey, he does give us tons of great pictures! see: 44 Reasons why giving Mike Dunleavy 44 million wasn't the brightest idea Part I | Part II | Part III | Part IV ) will be manning the Power Forward spot for the Dubs next season. Nellie is known for his crazy strategies, but this one just seems like it's going to be a disastrous experiment.

Don Nelson on Mike Dunleavy:

He's a natural four

Huh?

So let's pretend for a second that Don Nelson is really serious about starting Mike Dunleavy at the power forward spot and playing him heavy minutes there. There's a bunch of things to be worried about:

Throughout his career Dunleavy has been a poor rebounder for a 6 foot 9 small forward against mostly shorter players. Plug him in at the 4 spot and he's going to get eaten alive by guys like Tim Duncan, Elton Brand, Amare Stoudemire, Carlos Boozer, Dirk Nowitzski, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph, Chris Wilcox, Shareef Abdur-Rahim/ Kenny Thomas, Kenyon Martin/ Nene, and that KG fellow we absolutely love. Rebounding was already a big problem for the Warriors last season. It's going to be even tougher with Dunleavy at the 4 spot.
Often times last season on offense the Warriors had 4 guys out on the perimeter (a starting forward tandem of Dunleavy and Troy Murphy will do that to you) with only Foyle down low. Now, we're looking at 5 guys hanging out on the perimeter unless Dunleavy or Murphy radically change their games.
Power forwards typically get you high % buckets with some semblance of a low post game. When was the last time you saw Dunleavy fight for position down low, back down a player, and get an easy bucket? It's just not part of his game, unless he's been working on it over summer.
Where's the love for Ike Diogu? He's a natural power forward with an amazing array of moves in the low post. Why not team him up with Murph for an inside-outside combo?

The silver lining to this is well, the unexpected. Who ever thought Atlanta Hawks cast-off Boris Diaw would be effective at the Center spot for those runin' and gunnin' Phoenix Suns? Anything can happen.

To Dunleavy's credit, he did come to camp significantly bulked up last season. He is not the skinny rookie he came into the league as. Maybe Dunleavy at the 4 is just crazy enough to work.

Do you think Dunleavy's career will be jumpstarted by Don Nelson playing him at the 4 spot?

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Dun Four

Am I skeptical? Hell yes! But you called it Atma on the B. Diaw parallel. Does anyone know if Dunleavy has bulked up anymore? At this point, I'm putting my faith in Nellie. Hell, the guy had the stones to address the elephant-in-the-room (the horrible free throw shooting from our guards).

by Sleepy71 on Sep 29, 2006 12:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

$27,551,111.00 is a lot to spend for two players

having trouble making free throws.

DN is purposefull. He expects the small guys to be the most effective players on the floor and they can't be if their FTs don't drop in.

by Playoffs Drought on Sep 30, 2006 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Basketball is a team sport

Who knows?

As long as the game is basketball, there is alot that can change when the same five guys on the floor are playing as a unit.

Diaw's performance with the Suns is a great example of how a guy's value is determined by the system.

Again, the Bulls played great BB with a 6'7" PF Nocioni and 6'9" Center(s): Sweetney, Songalia, & Harrington. Their SG Ben Gordon is 6'2"-- in shoes.

BTW their 7' Tyson Chandler turned the ball-over 20% of the time he touched the ball and was foul prone. Mike Dunleavy would have been better.

by joe sez on Sep 29, 2006 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

INCONCEIVABLE!

Dunleavy at 4? Mind as well put butterfingered Foyle at PG, becuase we both know those guys can't play either of those positions. You are right, I havent seen Dunleavy fight for a post, let alone box out and get a rebound, plus he has a small frame for somebody to play that position.

I absolutley love Ike and I think he can play the 4, since you have my man T-Murder playing center. It would make more sense to put somebody that can REBOUND AND POST at the 4 then soembody who can't do either of those.

Diaw proved he can play after his first year getting some actually playing time, Dunleavy has way too much NBA time and experience to be sucking that much.

by djchuckdeez on Sep 29, 2006 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Foyle at the PG!!!

Thats a great idea!

RUN FOYLE, RUN!!!!

by Zorgon on Sep 29, 2006 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Man

How many times must the 44 reasons why not to sign Mike Dunleavy to a 44 million dollar contract be linked? Give him a break.

As for him at the 4, it will depend on how the rest of the team is sorted. I'm pretty sure it'll work in a running offense though.

RUN FOYLE, RUN!!!!

by Zorgon on Sep 29, 2006 1:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Haha

How many times must the 44 reasons why not to sign Mike Dunleavy to a 44 million dollar contract be linked? Give him a break.

Classics never die!

If we don't laugh about those dumb mistakes, we're just going to cry.

I thought this particular piece was pretty fair though.

The Bay loves GSoM!

by Atma Brother ONE on Sep 29, 2006 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give it a break. . . .

OK. Here's a question for you. Which do you see as more difficult? Dunleavy making it as a Four in Nelson's system -- where speed, movement and court sense/vision will be at a premium? Or BD (1) learning how to shoot free throws (i.e. so he can hit at least three out of four) and (2) not throwing up the wild threes that have always been this horrible shooter's penchant? Nellie has now thrown down the gauntlet, both on the free throws and the wild threes: if you can't make the frees and shake the threes, you don't deserve to be in the game at crunch time. Sounds fair to me.
My guess is that, unless ol' Boom Fizzle really gets his head on straight and finally approaches his tremendous potential, you're likely to see more of Dun at the end than BD. And how does that grab you? (BTW, it's also my guess that we'll now see a noticeable improvement in JRich's free throws, since he'll take Nellie's admonition to heart.)
Looks like it'll be a fun training camp one way or the other. But let's really worry more about BD at this point than Dunleavy. BD's the problem that must be solved if this team is going to go any place. And words alone won't do it: it's time to perform.

by johnl on Sep 29, 2006 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that Baron is now the main factor, but

Dunleavy is the focus of this post, and is why I commented on him.

RUN FOYLE, RUN!!!!

by Zorgon on Sep 29, 2006 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha

You know there are more people on the team than Baron Davis and Mike Dunleavy.

BD/ JRich are gonna hit their free throws at a higher clip this season. Those dumb 3's are going to be dramatically reduced too.

Dunleavy at the 4 is going to be a disaster. His stat line will probably a little better (it can't get worse than last season), but I'm terrified what opposing big men are going to do against Dun/ Murphy. They'll score more, but overall they'll be giving up a lot more points than the score.

The backcourt's got problems for sure, but the frontcourt IS the problem.

The Bay loves GSoM!

by Atma Brother ONE on Sep 29, 2006 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

amen

amen brother haha

by travisl212 on Sep 29, 2006 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, Really?

From your lips to God's ear -- especially about MD as a disaster at Four. But seriously folks. . . .I really want to see what we'll be saying halfway into this season (assuming -- big assumption -- BD stays healthy for half a season). If you're right, and BD's gotten it, bought into Nelson, and starts playing BBall (instead of all that street crap for losers -- has he EVER played well without the ball; CAN he play defense?), I'll be the first to stand up and cheer. And I really hope I do. On the other hand, if Dun buys into the system and does what he's capable of doing, I fully expect you, Atma, to quit the carping and cop to the fact that, while he's substantially less talented than BD, MD is as smart and ego-less player as there is in the NBA, and that his court sense leaves BD years behind. Deal? Let's call this one up on February 1. (And if BD is once again on the DL, that doesn't mean it's a push.)

by johnl on Oct 1, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again man

I'm not rooting for BD vs Dunleavy. I think it's a stupid battle that no one cares about.

I'm rooting for the Warriors.

If you want to root for Dunleavy against Baron, that's all you. I'm not sure why you see that dichotomy, but hey- as long as you're having a good time. I really encourage you to post a diary hyping up your man Dunleavy. I just don't see the things you see.

I thought this article about Dunleavy at the 4 was pretty fair though man.

On a sad note, Dunleavy is now 26 years old and has 4 seasons under his belt. It's extremely rare for a player to radically improve at this state in his career. Unfortunately, Dunleavy probably is what he is.

by Atma Brother ONE on Oct 1, 2006 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Dunleavy at four

If we become the next run and gun team like the suns why not. i think it could work. besides for the D, i'm sure we'll adopt the Zone defense LOL

by YaoButtaMing on Oct 1, 2006 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

baron and mike

come on now... i know baron isn't the best free throw shooter or three point shooter but baron is the only one on the team with handles that could actually cross somebody up. when healthy baron davis is a superstar and him and jrich are the only shot at the warriors making it to the playoffs. if you havent noticed mike dunleavy was god awful from behind the arc. plus guys like amare stoudamire will look at him and laugh because compared to powerfowards he is just a little b*tch that is going to get sh*t on. mike dunleavy is too slow to play the 3 and too weak to play the 4. ballhandling is overrated and he can't shoot. putting him at powerfoward isn't playing to his strengths because quite frankly i really don't think he has any strenghts. and those funny ass pictures of him getting kicked in the mouth along with halarious explanations never get old to me. lol

by travisl212 on Sep 29, 2006 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It goes two ways

BD's got a nice potential cross-over. Fun to watch. Not so much fun to watch though is all the times opposing guards blow by him. If your idea of fun is calling him a "b*tch" at Four, you're likely to have a lot of fun this year cuz he'll likely be playing even though he hasn't shot. (And BTW, your hero BD has, I believe, the worst shooting average of any starter in the NBA, but because he CAN look good on individual plays, many think he's USA-team ready. Go figure that one out.)

by johnl on Oct 1, 2006 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I guess

if you're going to diss on him, its one of the things you link to.

I'm still gonna miss Foyle though.

RUN FOYLE, RUN!!!!

by Zorgon on Sep 29, 2006 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunleavy at the 4.

Dunleavy's stats and +/- as a 4 have been considerably better than his stats as a 3 for his career. Nelson's probably right that it's a better position for him. He'll have problems and won't out-rebound Brand or Boozer, but he'll rebound better than he did when camping out as a 3.

Dun was a highschool 1, recruited to play 2 but grew and wound up playing the majority of his years at Dook as a 4. He hasn't really show aptitude at 3 as a pro but that seems to be where coaches try to put him.

When the Warriors played small last year, he actually attacked the rim with reasonable success. Monty seemed to shy away from that, in part because the defense with Murphy at center was atrocious, in part because Monty didn't seem to have a good grasp of what he wanted to do. But it has a reasonable chance of success compared to trying to fit the square peg of Dunleavy as SF into the round hole of a not terribly impressive and not terribly innovative lineup like they've played for the last 2 years.

by jae on Sep 29, 2006 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

my thoughts

to have a big man be undersized most of the time he needs to be strong and athletic neither of which describes mike dunleavy. in a running game like you want your big men to run the floor and be good athletic finishers (like amare stoudamire and shawn marion) not be the one's taking the ball up the floor leave that to the gaurds. altho i believe mike dunleavys ballhandling is extremely overrated, i do believe that that is his biggest stregnth. now we have a center (murhpy) who is too weak to gaurd the average powerfoward and a powerfoward who gets posted up by gaurds.

by travisl212 on Sep 29, 2006 3:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Going with the when was the last

When was the last time anyone has seen Dunleavy dunk the basketball??? I know it has happened, but the guy seems to love those finger rolls. I know it rarely makes a difference whether its a lay up or a throw down, but it can be important. More than just the 2-points, power fowards dunk over people because they can and want everyone else to know it. Its a statement of dominance; when someone like Dwight or Amare slams it, its because they are letting loose some aggression and passion. When was the last time Dunleavy showed that much passion doing anything? Boris Diaw worked for the suns because he occasionaly showed that fire, whether he was dunking himself, or throwing an alley to a teammate. All the times ive seen MDJ dunk its looked like an accident. He is going to be eaten alive on the defensive end, i dont think anyone can argue against that effectively. Offensively it all depends on the tempo, however dunleavy has never struck me as a particulary fast player (in terms of up and down the court speed). I just dont see him working out at the 4 for extended periods of time.

Theres always next year take 12

by FoyledAgain on Sep 29, 2006 4:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How many times...........

did you see Chris Mullin dunk the ball?!?!? I watched a lot of fottage of Run TMC today, and didn't see a single Mullin dunk........badasss.

ya'll are supreme haters on Mike D.....I hope you will all eat crow this season!

I'm praying, every night, that Mike D breaks out this season.............he could be incredible, yet ya'll dwell on his shortcommings and ignores others faults.

.......wait and see.......that's all that can be said.

Top 7 of '07 draft = Warriors only chance of being good over the next 5 years

by jgodoski on Sep 30, 2006 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunkin' Dun

Dun had a lot more dunks last year than Pietrus, who still can't finsh no matter how good he is driving to the hoop. MP's become a mini-BD, acrtually regressing. MD not only finishes, he tends to score even when he gets hard fouled on the drive.

by johnl on Oct 1, 2006 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

that we are forgetting Nellie's plans for Dunleavy. He wants to use him as a point foward... this WILL wreck havoc on PFs in the west. If the opposing 4 has to match up with dunleavy as he brings up the ball.... whos gonna be guarding the lane?

heres another scenario, the pick and roll... with dunleavy and murphy. this would leave the paint completely open for baron, jrich, and monta to finish with their sublime skills.

Nellie is brilliant.

by ZombieWarrior on Sep 29, 2006 5:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

opposing coaches

might be smart enough to realize that they can guard MD in the full court with their own guards, leave their own "4" at the FT line until Dun gets down the court (if he can get down the floor against them) ... the pick & roll with Dun and Murphy helps opposing teams, who then won't have to worry about the drive off the pick, meanwhile their other defenders sag so they can contain JRich, BD, Monta etc standing and waiting to get the ball on the other side ... the best way to use Dun & Murphy on the pick and roll is as the screeners for the other guards, not one another, to create mismatches for our own guards against their fowards/posts ... as for all of us who may be worried about Dunleavy and Murphy guarding 4s and 5 respectively, they can't. So Nelson will use a ton of zone defenses to try to help them defensively. DunMurph cannot run & gun, are not formidable rebounders who can spark the break, etc. So why do I still hope Nelson can pull this off? Because he did it before, and might again, gotta keep hope ...

by hardcore on Sep 29, 2006 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

what about POB and andris

completely left out of the cobversation at 4? id rather have either of them starting at 5 and murph at 4 then dun at 4. I think nelly will realize this soon. I no peeple say duns gonna flourish under nelly, but i think he may just not have any skills. I predict that by the end of the year dun is gettin less than 20 mins a game

by mydedgerbil555 on Sep 29, 2006 5:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs