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Dunleavy + Murphy = Mo' Money, Less Production

After seeing so many fluff pieces by the local media about the Warriors, it's a welcome change to see articles like Warriors' big-money forwards on bench by Janny Hu for SFGate.com. The Warriors' front office may be stupid, but we aren't. Their $100 million dollar investment in the Charmin' soft and unathletic forward tandem of Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy spelled disaster from the start. We all knew that. It's sad when most of us with no direct experience in the NBA whatsoever could have avoided those silly mistakes by the inept Warrior front office. They are that bad.

Thankfully, it looks like the clueless Chris Mullin has finally found a clue:

"It's disappointing," Mullin said during a rare interview Thursday. "Mike and Murph, we need more out of them, there's no question about it. I don't think they would deny that. I don't think anyone would."

Oh wait, maybe Mullin hasn't found that clue:

What Mullin denied is that he'll be forced to make a move before the Feb. 22 trade deadline, even if that's the most likely he acknowledged the stickiness of having a roster with players whose productivity isn't matching their paychecks.

Well, I guess we can't expect and probably don't want Mullin to publicly say he's going to make a trade, since the last time he said something to that effect was this past summer. And you all know how that turned out- Mullin and Rod Higgins got punked on the trade and free agent market in every way imaginable. Still, let's hope Mullin and Higgins have the common sense to know that this roster needs a shakeup badly starting with Dunleavy, Murphy, and Adonal Foyle who aren't the ideal role models for the young players on this team. If it takes a buyout, so be it.

To Mullin's credit he's stepping up like a man and taking full responsibility for his mistakes (something money hungry owner Chris Cohan and President Robert Rowell have never done):

"If this doesn't go right, there ain't no question. It's on me," Mullin said of his own job security. "I'd be more than glad to handle that. Full throttle, full boat. All day, all night."

Coach Don Nelson's only been here a few months, but he seems to be even more frustrated than Warriors Nation with the lack of productivity from veteran forwards Dunleavy and Murphy:

Nelson blasted Dunleavy and Murphy on Friday after the two combined for 10 points on 4-for-13 shooting, 10 rebounds and four assists in 50 minutes against the heat.

"Where are our veterans? What the hell are they doing?" Nelson said. "We shouldn't be relying on Matt Barnes to have a good game to win, but that's where we're at."

The one important connection that many people are missing and most in the local media seem like they're afraid to point out out is how the fans are the ones paying for those silly Warriors front office mistakes. Yup, those ticket price hikes ain't no joke. It's too bad that we're the ones literally paying for those ludicrous big money deals to Foyle, Dunleavy, and Murphy. Uh, nice work Cohan and Rowell?

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Why we lose
The bottom line is the bay area is not low on basketball culture, but rather, we love it so much, that we'll pay to see ANYONE, and we'll even pay more and more each year.  So, if I'm the Warriors owner, and I still make my money from sell outs with a losing team that doesn't require me to pay any luxury tax or buyout any contracts or worry about just trading legitimately for a good player, then why should I worry about it?

Bay Area fans are getting violated year after year, because we just love basketball THAT much.  Places like L.A. and Sacramento?  Well, they wouldn't pay for losing.  Nope.  If they lost, their teams would go bankrupt, and it's just sad that our loyalty and humbleness is what causes us to accept all the Dunleavy's in this world.

by gsdubz on Jan 14, 2007 2:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Cohan must go !
I am hoping Mr Oracle himself aka Mr Ellison will buy the team. Teams don't win w/o a good owner. Look at the 49ers with Mr York and the raiders with Mr Davis.

Cohan must go. A new owner is needed desparately. Mr Ellison is a cutthroat artist biz man but he will clean house plus Ellison will not tolerate failures.

A good GM/VP would/should have cleaned house after Saint was canned but Mullin failed to recognize what needed to be done. Instead, Mullin re-signed all players Saint drafted. That was a WTF moment if there ever was one.

I think there is not much Mullin and Higgins can do now except for waiting for the bad contracts to expire. Nobody will take Murphy, Dumbleavy, Foyle, JR and BD. NOBODY would be stupid nuff to do that. BTW, I would get rid of Baron Davis anyday if possible.

Lets all hope to gawd that Ellis and Biedrins are for the real and I am not convinced yet. Ellis is too casual for me and Biedrins is still too light to play inside.

Please God stop punishing us fans.

 

by cohanmustgo on Jan 14, 2007 2:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Adonal
is the hottest trade prospect in the league right now. Lucky we keep him. :)

by Zorgon on Jan 14, 2007 3:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

some guy on nba fastbreak
i was watching nba fastbreak at like 11:30 last night and one guy on there claimed that there could be a deal in the works involving dunleavy, murphy for matt carrol and gerald wallace, he said we would throw in the phili cash, since we wont get the pick, i believe cabarpa was in there for expiring contract reasons, hopefully its true

he also mentioned we are playing for rashard lewis, possible murphy and dunleavy again, he said nelli is high on nick collison and might like him in the deal

hopefully its true, it would awesome

i believe it was marc jackson who said it, i missed the little bars at the bottom that say who they are

by badnamedwarriorfan on Jan 14, 2007 4:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

pinch me
to make sure i'm not dreaming...

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Jan 14, 2007 4:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll miss
the double white-guy-ness thats annoys Atma, but Rashard or GWall?!?!!? XPLOSIVE!

by Zorgon on Jan 14, 2007 4:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah?
Good looking out. I haven't heard or read anything about it. Post it in a diary and the community will love you.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 14, 2007 6:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Figured I'd finally join the discussion myself ...
I admit that I am not a Warrior fan - I had to weed out NBA fandom in me when I became a reporter - but one thing that strikes me as amazing about Warrior Nation is the persistence in sticking by this team even with a perceived mismanagement.

One thing I'd like to point out from an outsider's perspective is that the franchise has struggled to maintain any real direction for a sustained amount of time. The easiest thing to point to would be the - what is it now .. seven? - coaches since the turn of the century. When you talk to these players and ask them what they need to really take their game to the next level, the overwhelming response is to grow in a system because they believe their individual skills aren't going to get much better. A lot of these guys want to learn a system so they really master it and establish chemistry in the way the Spurs, Pistons, and GASP the Bobcats have done. Hehe. Bobcats are funny.

With that kind of turnover, it really is hard to have any continuity. Without a plan or direction, it's difficult to Tim Gunn it - you know .. "make it work." Dang, wifey makes me watch that fashion show too much.

The team started turning things around under Musselman and there were many around the league taking notice that Musselman was starting to build something. Maybe you guys didn't feel that way because the Ls were still piling up, but I know for a fact that two teams were starting to keep him on their short list of possible coaches. Muss isn't doing so hot in Sacramento, but dude works harder than most in this league. His teams are always ready .. they just don't execute.

Anyway, I'm digressing. I know you're upset about ticket rates going up and stuff like that, but y'all have got to understand that even the Clippers raised taxes during the worst of their times. That was before they moved to STAPLES and played in the hellhole that was the LA Sports Arena. And Sterling didn't even have the excuse of having to pay big contracts because he didn't hand those out until like two years ago. Prices have gone up leaguewide for nine straight years - it is a product of the league becoming less and less about the fans and more and more about making money.

With all of that being said, this was the year that the Warriors were supposed to turn it all around. At least that's what they expected from themselves.

Injuries are always an excuse, but the organization had a methodical approach to setting up their direction for the next few seasons. Nellie was instrumental to their plans - from everyone I've spoken to leaguewide, Nellie's sole purpose is to teach these guys how to win. He has the attention of the players, which is a big change from the last .. oh .. six coaches the Warriors have had.

After acquiring Baron, Mullin believed he had his team assembled. He believed in Monta as a SG over the offseason and added a glue guy by unloading Fisher and adding McLeod, a defensively trained guard who, again, has battled injuries this year. The Fisher trade should have clued us all into one thing - Mullin is willing to accept his mistakes and correct them. Monty was a mistake and so was the contract to Fish - both are gone.

In discussions with people around the league, they don't think Murphy has a contract that is too much. He is one of .. maybe nine or ten guys around the league that were in double-double figures nightly. I think only Nash averaged a double-double with points and assists, the rest being premier big men with their rebounding - guys like Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Shawn Marion, Elton Brand, and Kevin Garnett. Murphy isn't at that level, obviously, because he doesn't play a low-post game, but his numbers put him there.

With respect to how much some of them are paid, executives I've spoken to feel Murph is paid reasonably. A deal involving him can still get done. Chicago rumors surfaced a few weeks ago, were shot down by a Chicago source, and then came up again. There were whispers of other teams, but I haven't substantiated them and don't want to be a rumor monger.

Foyle is immovable. Doubt he moves anywhere despite the Warriors' best efforts. Dunleavy can still be moved, too, but a lot of people still think he can do better in this system, unlike Murph who looks lost and is in a bad mood.

There are other players that can be moved as well, specifically Ike and Pietrus. Doubt Nellie wants Pietrus moved, though.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that things are looking a lot better for this team than in year's past. The injuries are catching up to them right now and Baron's offcourt stuff is definitely affecting him, but this team's max effort is being put out there. POB was a solid draft pick and both Barnes and Azubuike look like they can contribute on this team for a long while.

And the team is looking to make a deal - dude above me wrote about the Sonics being a possible partner (they do need a big), but that's one of those things I haven't been able to substantiate myself. The Charlotte stuff - I've written about it in the past, about how the Warriors can make a play for Ely and unload a contract, but the Bobcats are rumored to take every bad contract in the league.

Keep an eye on what's happening in New Jersey, because rumors are swirling of that band being broken up soon. I'll leave it to you guys to speculate the possibilities :)

Mismanagement isn't the whole problem, but as with most things, is just piece of a very complicated puzzle. Mullin is a good guy who is trying to fix this .. give it time, I guess?

by pree on Jan 14, 2007 4:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Mwahahaha!
Foyle will haunt us forever!!!!!

Yeah, our contracts aren't super-bad, I mostly agree with you on that they can be moved.

And isn't Charlotte the only team under that cap? I mean, the state of the league has to be pretty bad if you've got 1/30th of your league under the cap. Revamp?

by Zorgon on Jan 14, 2007 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

there may be more
i thought toronto and atlanta are but only a few mil,  i heard that the magic and grizzlies will be once grant hill and eddie jones contract expres

by badnamedwarriorfan on Jan 14, 2007 5:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Right, give Mully some time to fix it
You know the scary thing is Mully will reward Ellis and Biedrins with huge contracts but they both bomb.

Call me crazy but I am not convinced yet that they both can become NBA playmakers. But I do trust Nellie because he seems to know talent.

I remembered when Nellie traded for Dirk and everyone was laughing at the time. Who the hell was Dirk? Nellie also saw something in Nash when Nash was riding the bench in Phoenix. So if Nellie believes Ellis and Biedrins can become impact players, then so it is.

I disagree with you completely. It does not matter if the NBA people think Murf and Dudleavy contracts were reasonable. It is Mullin's job to determine if they both can help the team win and til this day, the Ws' have not won many games. I understand players do get rich contracts in sports but if Mullin conducts his biz by dishing out huge contract w/o realistic expectations then he should be fired. I don't care if the W's wanted to overpay some players if they are true stars. Murf and Dudleavy have not proven they are true impact players.

I am glad Nellie finaly spoke the truth because everyone around here are afraid of speaking out. It has been disaster from the start. Us fans can see the disaster from miles away when Mullin signed the pathetic core of Murf, Dudleavy, Foyle, JR and now added BD to it.

by cohanmustgo on Jan 14, 2007 5:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pree my man
The team started turning things around under Musselman and there were many around the league taking notice that Musselman was starting to build something. Maybe you guys didn't feel that way because the Ls were still piling up, but I know for a fact that two teams were starting to keep him on their short list of possible coaches. Muss isn't doing so hot in Sacramento, but dude works harder than most in this league. His teams are always ready .. they just don't execute.

I agree 100%. I think the Warriors should've kept him. He tried his best to shake things up. Muss had heart and was the 10x the Warrior coach that Monty was. Sure he pissed a lot of players off- but who cares? It's been 12 years, we need wins not a bunch of happy guys getting paid millions. The Warriors wronged him. Rowell was foolish enough to say that the team underachieved in their last season under Muss although the team had just lost Arenas and Jamison.

Thankfully though we have Nellie right now. Nellie is one of the greatest hoops minds around- coaching-wise and management-wise. You can not do any better than him. Nellie's part of the solution. The only question is does he think it's worth his time and effort? You would think he's after a ring at this point in his career, not a rebuilding project.

Anyway, I'm digressing. I know you're upset about ticket rates going up and stuff like that, but y'all have got to understand that even the Clippers raised taxes during the worst of their times. That was before they moved to STAPLES and played in the hellhole that was the LA Sports Arena. And Sterling didn't even have the excuse of having to pay big contracts because he didn't hand those out until like two years ago. Prices have gone up leaguewide for nine straight years - it is a product of the league becoming less and less about the fans and more and more about making money.

Sterling's a big time loser (we'll get to that tomorrow). Haha, his actions don't exactly redeem the Warriors. It's understandable why ticket prices would raise if you've got bills to pay for KG, Shaq, or Kobe, BUT Warrior fans are footing the bills for guys like Foyle, DUnleavy, and Murphy. Those are management's mistakes. They should be paying, not us.
Mullin is willing to accept his mistakes and correct them. Monty was a mistake and so was the contract to Fish - both are gone.

Mullin's a good guy- no doubt. But the problem is he's in way over his head. He's still got 4 or 5 glaring mistakes to correct. I don't feel like waiting and watching him correct them. He's had his chance and he's messed up royally.
In discussions with people around the league, they don't think Murphy has a contract that is too much. He is one of .. maybe nine or ten guys around the league that were in double-double figures nightly. I think only Nash averaged a double-double with points and assists, the rest being premier big men with their rebounding - guys like Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Shawn Marion, Elton Brand, and Kevin Garnett. Murphy isn't at that level, obviously, because he doesn't play a low-post game, but his numbers put him there.

With respect to how much some of them are paid, executives I've spoken to feel Murph is paid reasonably.


Troy is not as bad as he's played and he's not a horrible player. Just a poor fit for this team. BUT as far as trades- I'll believe it when I see it. His contract is still awful and was unnecessary at the time.
Dunleavy can still be moved, too,

Again, I'll believe it when I see it.
Mismanagement isn't the whole problem, but as with most things, is just piece of a very complicated puzzle. Mullin is a good guy who is trying to fix this .. give it time, I guess?

Haha, my friend you never tell Warrior fans after 12 going on 13 years to be patient. They should have no confidence in this organization to make a good move. They cleared contracts like Jamison's and Damp's so they could ink Dunleavy, Murphy, and Foyle to lucrative extensions? What a joke.

Always appreciate your thoughts man. Great to have an objective insider.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 14, 2007 6:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

to include
BD and JR in a group termed as pathetic...is well, pathetic. Agreed on the rest, but show some respect please.

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Jan 14, 2007 6:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Please.
Although basketball, in comparison to many other sports, provides the best opportunity for 1-2 players on a team to take over, its unreasonable to expect them to carry you for a season.

Baron is easily among the best 5 PG's in the league. He can create and finish, and while he does have a nasty habit of firing contested 3's, he has shown he's willing to create as long as he someone, anyone else on the team is taking some of the scoring pressure. Unfortunately, thats been a rather rare occurrence recently.

Jrich is an outstanding athlete, who has worked to improve his shooting and is capable of scoring with anyone in the league. I consider him just outside the nba's 5 best SG's.

Most importantly, both these guys have heart and a desire to improve themselves and the team. Jrich has gone of his way to shoulder the responsibility  for team's performance and Baron has shown a desire to improve his conditioning and game. While injuries have slowed both players, they have both played through injuries, despite the team's relatively sorry state.

Despite all this, we've surrounded the two with an a fundamentally flawed team. We have no front court presence and backups that make questionable decisions, forcing them to play extended stretches.

Blaming Jrich and Baron for the problems with the team are ludicrous and as the two players which contribute the most and seem to take the most responsibility, seem utterly unfair.

by SkipT on Jan 14, 2007 7:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mullin was able to trade for BD bc nobody else
wanted him. You must watch the games more closely. Davis is bad part on this team. I wish JR could become Mitch Richmond but he is not, not even close b/c he does not have the handles Mitch did.

Mullin must clean house. Keep Ellis and Biedrins and hopefully draft better players starting next year.

by cohanmustgo on Jan 14, 2007 7:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In the games I'm watching...
Baron is the only player making big plays when it matters and playing like a winner. He has routinely come up big this year and in my opinion has improved his play since he arrived. He is a key part of why so many other players on this team are having career years (AB, MP) and the only reason we've been able to play small ball(which is a flawed system for a team with poor shooter, but our only really option because of the rest of the roster) as well as we have been able to.

How many wins do you think the Warriors would have this year with say Fisher running the offense?

by SkipT on Jan 14, 2007 7:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your logic is the main reason why the W's suck
See that guy have talent so lets keep him or give him an extension then hope to gawd they will produce.

Davis has helped the team this year but he won't help making the team a winning team. JR may be a good guy and have some skills but he won't help making the team any better as the records have proven.

This team must be gutted from the core and rebuild. Hopefully Nellie can give Mullin some pointers on how to build winning team. Nellie ripped apart the Mavs when he took control. Nellie ripped apart the Ws too.

by cohanmustgo on Jan 14, 2007 7:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh
There is a significant difference between BD and JR vs MDJ and Foyle. Davis and Jrich are proven producers. In general, we can't really hope to improve significantly in the backcourt.

At the same time, as I'm sure you know, we have 3 bad(TM) to terrible (MDJ, Foyle) contracts among our forwards and center. As this portion of the team is significantly weaker, it makes very little sense to look beyond here as we try to find ways to improve.

Finally, if anything its Ellis who we had better "give...an extension then hope to gawd [he] will produce." There is no guarantee that he will become any more protective of the basketball, that he will develop a left hand or that he will continue to score at a high rate as more and more teams force him to his off hand.

by SkipT on Jan 14, 2007 8:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Davis is bad part on this team.?
"Keep Ellis and Biedrins"

   you've got to be kidding? Baron is better than either one of these guys will ever be. If we had 5 Barons playing we'd be in first place.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 14, 2007 7:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm...
Keep Ellis and Biedrins...and what? Turn the ball over or foul every posession? LOL

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Jan 14, 2007 11:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree about J-Rich
I would put Kobe, Wade, Allen, Redd, Carter and maybe Joe Johnson and Hamilton ahead of him.  Not sure.  I think he is ahead on Manu

I think you are smoking and overrating Baron

 Obviously AI, Nash, Parker and Kidd are ahead of him, I am thinking Arenas and Billups (he wins) and maybe Paul

I would put him ahead of Cassel because Cassel is old and I like him better than Bibby

by Zig on Jan 14, 2007 9:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm
I consider Paker and Billups a step behind Baron, but I'm sure the case can made to the contrary. They're both surrounded with some pretty serious talent, in systems where they rarely have to dominate, so its hard to say just how good either is.

Today, I consider Baron better than Paul, but obviously I'd rather have Paul in the long run because of his age.

With that said, I guess my list would consist of Nash, Parker, Arenas and AI ahead of Baron with the others just behind.

Its entirely possible that part of why I like Baron as much as I do is because he gets so many touches as a result of other Warriors ineptitude. I sure would pay alot of money to see a great big one on one tourney among NBA players.

by SkipT on Jan 14, 2007 10:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sure there is no way of knowing
There are tons of individual talents in the league but being a point means a lot more than that

As you stated Baron hasn't really had a chance to tone down his game and pick his spots more because the overall talent on the Warriors is so bad.  In the past I am not sure that he could have anyway(ala Marbury).  He seems ready to now but doesn't have the talent around him

by Zig on Jan 15, 2007 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would trade for Rashard, like, right now
-- and chalk up a few extra losses (to improve our lottery position) while he rehabs his hand. Someone on this board proposed a fairly plausible four-way deal that netted us Rashard; I forget the details now. From what I've read, it does seem like Seattle would deal him for a reasonable offer. I would part with any three players not named Baron, Monta, or Ellis for him.

If we can somehow swing it for, say, Murph, Dunleavy, and Pietrus, we end up with a nice-looking lineup of

Baron
JRich
Rashard
Diogu
Biedrins
----
Ellis
Barnes
Foyle
Za

+++ an outside shot at Oden or Durant. Add one of those two to that group and you can immediately start talking about 50-55 wins...

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 14, 2007 7:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

well
for starters BD is a two time NBA All Star and has single handedly won probably 6-8 games this season while breathing air into this dying franchise.
JR has been CARRYING this team of his shoulders the past 4 years, he is a back to back NBA Slam Dunk champion and was the MVP of the rookie game. All these individual accolades don't mean much in terms of W's and L's, but they sure do give Warriors fans something to be proud of.

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Jan 14, 2007 7:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Additionally
Look at the best teams in the league. They have either:

-Stars, other talented starters and depth. These are the championship challengers. (Spurs, Suns, Mavs)
-Genuine stars, surrounded by role players (heat, Cavs)
-Above average players across the board (pistons, bulls)

We have two good guards, an abyss of a frountcort, decent bench type players (Barnes, bukake)and a handful of projects. (Ellis and his poor decisions, Beidrins and his consistency / foul problems, Ike and defensive problems, etc)This is all made worse by years of losing culture and a clueless front office.

by SkipT on Jan 14, 2007 7:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting dilemma
the Warriors have. Some real talent (BD, Monta, Biedrins, JRich,), some possible talent (Barnes, Murphy, Diogu, Azubuike, Petrius) and some not much talent (Dunleavy, Foyle, McLeod). What to do? Baron is the best player on the team and there's no one to replace him if he gets traded, unless he goes in return for another PG, but why do that? Monta has too much potential to let go, although he has to learn to take care of the ball. Biedrins is much improved and hauls in the boards. He, like Monta, may have run into a wall a little bit lately, as they've both played more this year than they're used to. JRich, if he returns to previous form, is top tier, but IMHO, expendable. His injuries, though, make him a tough trade. I wouldn't like to see him go, but if the W's really want to improve, they're going to have to give up a star.

Barnes is unpredictable game to game and I don't know if continued playing time will make him more consistent. If so, he's a plus. But tradeable. Murphy's tradeable, but does a decent job when healthy. He's not a monster on the boards, but does have a nose for the ball and picks up a lot of easy ones. Has a good touch, although not in previous years' form yet. Tradeable. I'm not ready to give up on Ike. He can shoot and rebounds well for his height. Whether or not he fits into Nellie's style is the big question, I think. Tradeable, though, as he may never pick up Nellieball. Azubuike is a keeper. I say no trade. Petrius is still developing and still has a lot of upside. No stupid trade, but packaged with someone else in return for an impact player, I say go ahead.

Dunleavy, Foyle and McLeod: trade 'em in a heartbeat, if possible, which it probably isn't.

POB? Who knows, but at this point in time, package him if someone wants him. It doesn't seem like he has a whole lot of natural talent just waiting to be developed.

So, to me, the core looks like BD, Monta, Biedrins and Azubuike. All the rest can go, but we'd better get something really good if JRich and Petrius are involved.

Optimist

by believer on Jan 17, 2007 12:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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