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Q&A: Dave Zirin (Part 2 of 2)

If you haven't checked out the first part of our interview with Dave Zirin and the great discussion in the comments then you need to WAKE UP, FOOL!

Before we get to the second part of our recent Q&A with Dave I really wanted to encourage you to make his site Edge of Sports a weekly destination on the world wide.

edge-sports.jpg

I'll pass the mic to Dave to give you the 411 about Edge of Sports:

A few of my favs from Edge of Sports:

Dave also drops science for Sports Illustrated over at SI.com, so make sure to check out his work over there as well.

Dave Zirin at SI.com

Our questions and Dave's thoughts after the jump!

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Golden State of Mind: The NBA has been painted as a league that is "too black" by its critics for quite some time. However the last 3 MVP's winners have been foreign born white players from Germany and Canada. This past season's MVP Dirk Nowitzki's selection wasn't all that controversial, but more of an awkward situation since his team was bounced in the first round of the playoffs by the Warriors in the biggest upset of NBA history. However, the previous back-to-back MVP winner's awarding was met with a lot of skepticism and objection with many NBA fans who believed that Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and LeBron James were more deserving of the MVP trophy. Charles "Modi" Modiano of Cosellout recently posited that this was a case study in white privilege, while Sports Illustrated's Jack Macullum respectively argued that that wasn't the case. How much of a role if any, do you think Nash's skin tone similarities with the overwhelming majority of the MVP voters played in his winning two straight titles?

Dave Zirin: Cosellout is a great site and Jack McCallum absolutely the finest basketball writer to ever breathe so mad respect to both. They both made good points. My take was that Nash absolutely deserved that first MVP. He revived a franchise and was able to overcome two longstanding prejudices in MVP balloting: against point guards, and against political athletes. Think about the first: Isiah, Mark Price, Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, never got a whiff of the MVP. It was nice to see a guy who sets the table get his. Also, his number one competition was Shaq who was arguably not the best player on his own team. Shaq shot 47% from the line and averaged 22 and 10, the worst numbers of his career. The next year, Nash got a lot of props for taking a team without Amare, integrating Diaw, and losing Joe Johnson and keeping them competitive. I could have given it this year to LeBron, Wade, Billups or Nash. Did racism play a role in Nash winning two MVPS? Who the hell knows? I just know that we aren't going to look back embarrassed at Nash's selection. They are defensible based on what he brought to the court. Rule changes that stopped hand checking had more to do with his MVPS than anything else.


Golden State of Mind:
We've always been a "little" interested in China's much hyped Yi Jianlian here at GSoM. Maybe it was that The Yi Movement thing. So here's a question about our old friend's recent situation.

When Yi's camp said that he would not report to the Milwaukee Bucks after they selected him in the 2007 draft despite their warnings, some critics, analysts, and hoops fans complained that if Yi didn't report to the Bucks, then the integrity of the NBA Draft was at stake. One frequently cited argument was that if players were allow to choose their draft destination then bad, small market teams would never be able to improve. However, historically, a few other young players have forced their way to other teams than the smaller market teams that drafted them, namely Danny Ferry (LA Clippers), Steve Francis (Vancouver Grizzles), and Kobe Bryant (Charlotte Hornets).

Why do you think the Milwaukee Bucks were so steadfast in their decision to keep Yi despite the wishes of his camp? Do you think Yi's case is different then Ferry, Bryant, and Francis'? Also, what do you make of the nativist responses that "if Yi doesn't want to play in Milwaukee, he should just stay in China"? Will people be talking about Yi or his camp's initial refusal to play in Milwaukee more than they talk about Ferry, Bryant, and Francis' choice of suitor years from now?

Dave Zirin: Ferry was terrible - just a gahd awful player. Francis was proven right by history since the Grizz didn't exactly thrive in Vancouver and the Bryant thing was done without rancor so Yi really does walk alone on this. What Yi faces that all others – including John Elway and Eli Manning – did not face was that he is an unproven commodity: no one has ever seen him play so there is a "Who the hell is he?" reaction by fans. I'm surprised the Bucks were so blasé about the fact that Yi didn't want to play there. They could have gotten some great players at that position in the draft. Is there some nativism in the response to Yi? Once again, like with Nash, who knows? But I'll tell you this: the NBA and Stern wants smooth relations with Beijing in the leadup to the Olympics – so this will get figured out one way or the other.


Golden State of Mind:
Near the end of your book in the chapter titled "In Their Own Words" you illuminated the depth, insights, and consciousness of some of this generation's athletes, in particular Etan Thomas, Sheryl Swoopes, John Amaechi, and Jeff Monson. Are there any players in the NBA that you think undeservedly get a bad rap from the media, despite being good folks dedicated to making the world a better place?

Dave Zirin: Here is a name: Ron Artest. Artest is a good man who spent a good part of his summer in Africa working with HIV afflicted children. It changed his life. This year you will either see a disinterested Artest whose mind is just on some other issues bigger than hoops OR you are going to see the Kings be the surprise team in the West (my prediction) with Artest resuming his pre-Auburn Hills place as one of the best all around players in the L.

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All of us at GSoM wanted to thank Dave for taking time out of his busy schedule to field our questions. It was really cool trading thoughts with him and even cooler for him to show the GSoM community some love. I can assure you that his forthcoming "A People's History of Sports in the United States", a descendent of Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, will be in heavy rotation in the GSoM Book Club.

Keep it in that golden state of mind Dave my man!

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Great stuff, guys--Zirin is a must-read in any medium.

Recent MVP voting is a great topic.  I'm actually embarrassed by the Nash selection in 2004-05.  Shaq wasn't as dominant as he was when he was younger, but he was still very effective, shooting 60% on the year, blocking a lot of shots, and posting the league's 2nd-highest PER.  After his trade to Miami, the Heat won 17 more games and advanced to the conference finals; meanwhile, the Lakers lost 22 more games and missed the playoffs for the first time in a decade.

Of course, Nash moved from Dallas to Phoenix the same year, and the Suns improved significantly, but the Mavericks also improved following his departure.  And a lot of people will tell you that Nash wasn't even the best player on his team that year (pre-surgery Amare had become unstoppable).

by jgurney on Nov 11, 2007 10:36 PM PST   0 recs

I'd have to agree
That 2004-2005 selection just didn't seem right at all. I just don't think you can call someone an MVP when they don't even really try on defense. And like you said the Mavs actually became a better team after Nash left. I watched plenty of Suns games that season. Amare was flat out unstoppable (everyone knew he was going right, but they still couldn't stop him and just ended up getting posterized)- not that he was a better defensive force or anything, but I thought he was more responsible for the Suns' success that season then Nash.

Don't get it twisted though- I consider Nash an amazing athlete, phenomenal shooter, and by all accounts a cool guy. I just think he's going to go down as the worst MVP of all time.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 11, 2007 10:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Worst MVP in history?
It's possible ... though if you read David Berri's "Wages of Wins" (or Malcolm Gladwell's New Yorker piece on it) and buy into it at all, you have to think Allen Iverson 2001 is by far the worst MVP in history: by Berri's "win score" index, he was the 91st best player in the NBA that year.

In my memory, the most unjust MVPs are probably Barkley and Malone, who basically benefitted from "Jordan-fatigue" among the voters. Not only were neither of them ever in MJ's league, but also, to my eyes, they were only the second most important players on their teams (after KJ and Stockton, respectively). And I know the playoffs aren't meant to count, but, over the course of their careers, the playoffs have basically exposed Barkley, Malone, and Nowitzki as the "second tier" stars they are.

Overall, I agree that Nash's lack of D is a huge strike against him. I think according to Berri, Marion generally grades out as marginally more important to the Suns' success. But I agree with Zirin that it's nice to see a true playmaker get the award. Given that there were no obvious MJ/Magic/Bird type choices the years he won the award, I don't have a huge problem with it.

Anyone else think that barring injury, they might as well hand this year's MVP award to Kevin Garnett right now?

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 12, 2007 2:27 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Jordan fatigue
Yeah, given how he dominated the league, it's ridiculous that MJ only won 5 MVP trophies.  The Barkley and Malone trophies were like lifetime achievement awards.

And you're right--KG for 07-08 MVP is as much of a lock as Durant for ROY.

I agree that AI wasn't deserving of the 2001 MVP over Shaq, but no way was he the 91st-best player in the league that year.  Ratings like that (as well as the contention that Rodman was better than MJ in 95-96) make it hard for me to treat WoW seriously.

by jgurney on Nov 12, 2007 6:26 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

i dont think there was a clear winner that year
but you look at the suns huge improvement that year,and there record with nash and without him (he only missed 7 games, but they didnt look too good in those games)i couldn't find the numbers but i remember they where bad and you could tell from watching that they weren't the same team without him. I really think it depends on how MVP is defined which seems to change from year to year  is it the best player on the best team, or is it the most valuable, or important player to a team  there is a difference. so while Nash might not have been (or may not be)the best player on the Suns i dont think anyone can argue that he is not the most important piece to the puzzle which i think he verified the next year when Amare was out.

by azw on Nov 12, 2007 11:55 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

It's the Nash 2nd Yera LANDSLIDE that desrves focu
Thanks for the reference as I caught this on a COSELLOUT backlink. Let me start by saying that there are few sportwriters in the "mainstream" (I use this word very loosely) that I respect more than Dave Zirin. I also grew up reading McCallum in SI and greatly admire his body of work -- if not his take on MVP voters.

Firstly, the Nash MVP discussion needs to be shifted. Despite my personal disagreement with Zirin and MacCallum, we could concede that reasonable people might differ on the Nash MVPs. Where the discussion needs to begin and end with is the second year vote that gave Nash 57 first place votes to 16 for Lebron. Most critics won't touch that statistic. Why? Because it is indefensible. The gap is just too big. Any appraisal aimed purely at truth-seeking could only conclude that race played a role in that landslide.

Anyway, great blog Atma Brother One. Even though I'm a die hard Knick fan, with the Knicks out of the playoffs last year, I got swept up by GS like everyone else last year. I can go to my grave saying that I saw that Baron Davis dunk live! Probably the most significant/exciting playoff dunk since John Starks over Jordan in '93. And keep bloggin'. We need all the alternative media we can get.

PS: Put a body on Boozer already!  

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference". -- Elie Wiesel

by MODI on Nov 13, 2007 10:40 AM PST   0 recs

Meh
Nash over LeBron may have been the wrong choice, but I don't think the race card is appropriate. NBA writers love LeBron. Nash was the defending MVP who had improved on his MVP numbers while playing for a division winner (as opposed a #4 seed). Any appraisal aimed at truth-seeking would allow that that's probably sufficient explanation.

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 13, 2007 2:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

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