Rumor: Warriors Considered Damon Stoudamire

by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2007 11:29 AM PST in Rumors Comment 10 comments

Here's an interesting tidbit via Sam Smith of ChicagoSports.com:

The Warriors are saying Troy Hudson's injury-plagued career probably is over because of hip problems. Before signing Hudson, they considered Damon Stoudamire as Baron Davis insurance. The Warriors still have a trade exception from the Jason Richardson deal to make a move, and Chris Mullin has been clever in balancing his roster and payroll.

To the rescue?

A few thoughts on THud and Mighty Mouse after the jump!

You always hate to see a good man's career cut short because of injury. Let's hope that isn't the case for Hudson. People in Warriors land were very critical of the Troy Hudson signing and his on court play during the 9 games he played this season (probably justifiably so), but I'm in the camp that says he deserved more time to prove himself. Having said that from all indication it looks like THud's career with the Warriors ended faster than his rap career. Very unfortunate for a guy GSoM friend Marcus Thompson called a "really nice guy".

Who knows what the Grizzlies' asking price for Stoudamire was before the Warriors signed Hudson and who know knows what their price is now. Given his production (in 21:41 minutes- 7.7 points, 3.9 assists : 1.7 turnovers), age, and the 2 years remaining on his contract totaling $9 million you'd expect that it wouldn't be all that much. Who knows if the Warriors would consider Stoudamire a tangible option right now either. Mighty Mouse is a solid pro and savvy vet though and you'd think it wouldn't be that hard to pry him from Memphis. I'm not sure if he's still fast and quick enough to run and gun in Nellieball, but it's worth a shot even if his shot doesn't go in as much as you'd like.

I've been saying this for years and I'll say it again- it's a real head scratcher why the Warriors have been unable to find a suitable backup point guard for Baron Davis. Derek Fisher and his incredibly painful to watch Kobe impersonations weren't the answer and thus far Monta Ellis has been a fast, undersized, scoring 2-guard and not the guy you want steering your ship. The Aaron Miles, Keith McLeod, Sarunas Jasikevicius, and Troy Hudson experiments didn't last long either. Given BD's injury history you'd think the Warriors would make backup PG who can distribute, run the offense, and defend more of a priority, but they just haven't.

Don't get me wrong I'd absolutely love to have a traditional backup PG right now, but I'd hope that Mullin and Nellie are looking to address bigger needs than that right now, especially with the sizeable $10 million trade exception. The Warriors are simply too young and soft, especially down low. Nellie doesn't think Brandan Wright, Marco Belinelli, Patrick O'Bryant, or Kosta Perovic can help this team right now, so that's a huge chunk of the roster that's collecting DNP's nightly (at least not for the Bakersfield Jam). Jack's having a career year right now, but I'm not sold that a team can go all that far if he's the 2nd offensive option. I'd like to see the Warriors go for a bigger fish right now with their young talent and the trade exception as bait.

A backup PG would undoubtedly be a nice addition, but look back at the Warrior losses this year. Do you honestly see a Damon Stoudamire, Earl Watson, or Jason Williams type changing some of those L's into W's? I doubt it. The Warriors still have a glaring need for a tough and rugged interior scorer, defender, and rebounder. They could also use some more consistent shooters and perimeter defenders.

I'm the first one to tell you Monta's upside is very limited and I don't ever see him being able to run the point for big minutes in this league, but I still think he deserves a shot this season to prove himself. If Nellie can work Kelenna Azubuike into the rotation more or even give Mickael Pietrus minutes at the 2 (instead of the 4) with Monta running the point to spell Baron and sub in when BD's injured, it's worth a try. I'm admitedly skeptical, but maybe the Warriors can get by with Monta as the backup PG if they upgrade the roster in other key areas.

Backup PG seems like a luxury right now, but the other glaring needs, at the very least another All-Star level player at any position other than PG, are a necessity if this team is going to make the jump from fringe Western Conference playoff team to elite squad. Find a way to get Ron Artest... Find a way to get Ron Artest... Find a way to get Ron Artest...

Do the Warriors need a backup PG right now? Are you willing to wait the rest of the season and see if Monta can learn on the job?

99% of rumors never happen, but 99% of them are fun to talk about!

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Hold Tight

Nice thoughts, and some quick points:

First, forget trading the DNPs and the exception for a star. BW's the future -- and a bright one, if Nellie would just start giving him 10 minutes a game, Marco's just too iffy to attract much interest now, and the big guys (Kosta-POB) won't draw anyone. Besides, no one's trading a star, unless he's just a bucket of trouble. (See below.)

Second, forget Artest. Though an undeniable talent, he's not a winner -- though he CAN play a team game, he never does for long -- and he has a habit of taking teams down with him. We've got Jack and BD nicely adjusted now, but it's a very sensitive equilibrium Nellie's maintained. Artest would almost certainly add too much tension, plus he'd slow the game down just when the W's need to torque it up.

Finally, we've got enough trouble with MP at the 4; at the 2 he'd get his hands on the ball way too much, and that always spells disaster, because he still has no sense of ball savvy, and our TOs would skyrocket with an out-of-control, out-of-position MP at the 2. Keep him off the floor unless you just need a monkeywrench to jangle things up on a bad night (think back two games). And giving BW MP's minutes would be a good start here: we'd lose the nice baseline threes, but get a lot more in return in the form of positioning, rebounds (including some ORs), and finishing around the basket.

In short, things seem to be on a pretty good track as they are, even with our competition (e.g. Lakers and, surprisingly, Blazers) on their current tears (11 in a row for the Blazers?). The quick start against the Cavs was nice to see -- but we'll have to wait to find out if it's just back to that infuriating good game-bad game nonsense. BD, Jack and Monta are going well, Al's starting to hit -- and has that terrific team attitude, and AB's hands (and confidence) are much better (with Jack) than they were at the beginning of the season -- plus he's proved he can play 35 minutes (if Nellie will let him). KAZ has been wonderful at crunch time and Barnes will be coming around pretty soon. A dash of BW is all that's really needed.

Still, if they could get Damon for Kosta or POB (or part of the trade exception), I'd jump -- since Troy (even if healthy) isn't the kind of player this team needs. Cheers! And let's hope no backsliding tonight.

by johnl on Dec 26, 2007 12:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Great comment

I fully agree that Marco, Kosta, and POB are no more than filler to pad the salary totals in a trade right now. They're stock is that low and if I was the GM of another team I wouldn't touch them unless they were throw-ins. But I'd like to think Wright and the $10 million dollar trade exception in some combo (note: you can't just add them together, it'd have to be two separate trades) could net something really nice.

When he wants to to and his head is on straight I'd say Artest is a top 15 maybe top 10 player in the league. I just have a feeling that BD, old friend Jack, Nellie, and Al are just the good people he needs around him to thrive on and off the court. I'm willing to make that gamble and even start him at the 4 or play him at the 5 for long stretches this season to give it a shot. I'd even be willing to give up Monta to make it happen. I'm confident in a lineup featuring

PG: Baron Davis
SG: Kelenna Azubuike
SF: Stephen Jackson
PF: Ron Artest
C: Andris Biedrins

I'd run with it and run people out of the gym with Biedrins subbed out and Matt Barnes running with Artest at the 4/5. Call me crazy, but I could see that squad possibly cracking the Spurs-Mavs-Suns trio too.

No doubt I fully understand why Nellie plays MP2 at the 4 and for the most part agree. I'd just to see a little bit of Monta at the 1 and Pietrus at the 2. I'm not expecting it to work, but I'd experiment with it and in particular see how Monta responds.

And giving BW MP's minutes would be a good start here: we'd lose the nice baseline threes, but get a lot more in return in the form of positioning, rebounds (including some ORs), and finishing around the basket.

I honestly just don't think he's ready. I trust Nellie's evaluation of him and if he doesn't think he's ready I don't either. Part of me is terrified we've got the next Joe Smith with BW, but that's another discussion for another time.

by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 26, 2007 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good points, brother one

I agree with pretty much everything you say. Here's my idea of how to trade for Artest.

Two trades. A protected 1st and 2nd for Artest (whose salary is absorbed by the TPE). Brandon Wright and Belinelli for Douby and Garcia.

The trade is basically Wright and subtracting Artest's salary for Artest. But then one has to match Wright's salary, etc.. That is how I came up with the other players and compensatory draft picks.

Ah ha, the Warriors keep Monta, and with Garcia being a legitimate regular rotation player, the Warriors are 10 deep! Now they can run teams to the ground without running out of gas. Theoretically, anyhow.

Davis
Monta/Buike/Garcia
Jackson/Pietrus
Artest/Barnes
Biedrins/Harrington

Or whatever. Douby can be an emergency PG. I like Artest, because he's athletic enough to run, can add rebounding, really tightens up their interior D and improves their 3P shooting. That's a lot of improvements provided by just one player.

Also, one could then look at the Richardson trade as J-Rich for Artest, but with saving years and money off of J-Rich's contract.

by San Francisco Slim on Dec 26, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

!!! A proposed trade that makes sense!

Here's a trade that makes sense for both teams, although I suppose it is possible that the Kings could get more (or think they can get more) than Wright for Artest. I guess it depends how much they like him.

I've been angry about the trade of J-Rich for (as it turned out) Wright since the draft. It just didn't make any sense at all, with the W's window with Baron and Nellie so short (two years at best), to draft a player like Wright who can't help NOW. I thought they should have taken Thornton. But this trade would make it better; it might not work, in fact probably wouldn't work. Artest could turn out to be as crazy as we fear, the chemistry could disintegrate, and the squad ends up a worse version of the Nuggets. But at least acquiring Artest would be indicative of an organization that was trying to win a championship.

I still don't know if the Warriors so constituted could beat a really big team like Utah or San Antonio in the playoffs, but I feel this move would at least make the idea of winning the title this season a realistic one.

Oh, and I want to emphasize that IMO this trade would be pointless if the W's had to give up Monta. I just don't think the team + Artest - Ellis is all that much better than the status quo, and with the chemistry issues could even be worse.

by taliesin on Dec 26, 2007 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for your agreement

I also agree with you that the trade should work IF the Kings think that Wright is a future starter. When a team is looking to trade a veteran, they are usually looking for salary relief and a young starter with very good upside.

This trade fulfills the salary cap relief angle, as the Kings' lose Artest's salary for both the rest of this season, as well as next (when he has a player option that he will probably exercise). The question is whether or not Wright fills the bill as the potential young starter.

The problem with Wright is his diminishing trade value due to Nelson's reluctance to play him. Right now, the jury is out on whether or not he is a bust, or just not ready to play at this moment. Probably, but not definitely, the latter. Maybe the Warriors would have to add another pick to make it work.

And I agree with the rest of your analysis. The Warriors have to improve right now. The Nelson-Davis-Jackson window will close sooner than people think. I really think this trade would improve them a fair amount. If they are a 45 win team right now, this trade could get them to 50+. Maybe not a championship, but they would be more competitive while their best players are in their prime, and their inspirational coach is still around.

by San Francisco Slim on Dec 27, 2007 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait a second. . . .

First off, this "trade" would cause the W's to lose a first, a second, plus their two firsts from this year (BW and Marco) -- all for a guy with potential, but who's comparatively slow, is moody beyond belief, and has ALWAYS ended up being a POISON for his team. You might say, what the Heck; take a shot. But a failure here would be fatal for years. (Just what we need: another Spree.)

(Just think back to last night. As well as the W's played in the first half, they nearly blew a home game to the worst team in the NBA because, when the zone got thrown at them, they stopped working -- and BD and Jack just sat back and missed bad (horrendous, really) threes. Adding Artest to that stultifying mix would have cost them the game. Monta stayed hot, but they stopped working and stopped feeding him. Go figure.)

I, too, happily cut a lot of slack for Nellie, who's making this team go. But his BIG failure -- and it continues, a third of the way into the season -- is to avoid his bench. Thus, Jack and BD wear down, are less valuable at crunch time, and are certainly much more prone to injury as their overplay continues. Granted, KAZ, Barnes and MP were all weak last night, but how could playing BW have made things worse? If anything, he might have recovered that lost spark, he certainly would not have been part of that 1-14 three fest in the second half, and he'd have gained experience that would prove invaluable later in the season. In short, playing BW instead of MP is almost a guaranteed improvement; and when MP plays like he did last night (as per usual), even a skinny kid like BW would have brought more to the floor.

So, let's stick with our present tools, keep our future, and start giving BW (and maybe Marco) some consistent minutes. If we do that, and BD, Jack and Monta stay healthy, we are likely to get deep into the playoffs -- even in the over-stocked West.

by johnl on Dec 27, 2007 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Damon Stoudamire

I wouldn't mind Damon Stoudamire if it came attached to Hakim Warrick.

POB and Pietrus works financially; the only question is whether Memphis wants out from Stoudamire's contract enough to do it.

Conley's returning soon so they dont exactly have PG problems.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Dec 26, 2007 4:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Count me in...

That's probably one of the best (and least painful) trade idea I've heard in weeks. Too bad it'll probably never happen. I think jae mentioned something to the effect that POB and Pietrus are a tuff sell because of their contract situations.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Dec 26, 2007 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Warrick

I've always wondered how Warrick would fit into the Dubs scheme...

Thunder!!!

by PHUT! on Dec 26, 2007 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Warrick angle

It's intriguing, but I'm not really sure why the Grizzlies would want to give up on Warrick even if he doesn't get along with their coach. With Milic under performing as usual, it seems that they really need Warrick. And I'm not sure the Warriors have what it takes to aquire him, unless they include Buike or Wright in the trade. I don't think Perovic will do it.

As for just acquiring Stoudamire, no thanks. He's always been a defensive liability and I just don't think he's got enough in the tank to justify taking two years of his salary, at the expense of perhaps re-signing Azubuike. I'd rather sign Boykins if the Warriors could work out a reasonable deal (a multi-year BAE would be my guess).

by San Francisco Slim on Dec 27, 2007 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs