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Rumor: Barnes Will Sign on Monday

Breaking news...(breaking news noise, doo doo doo)...GSoM friend, pree, is reporting that Matt "Big Shot" Barnes is going to sign with the Warriors tomorrow. Pree told me he just talked to Barnes and it's going to go down.

Basketball News has confirmed that Matt Barnes has agreed to return to the Golden State Warriors on a one-year deal. Barnes said he will sign his contract on Monday.
For more Matt Barnes dicussion, check out Gain on 10's diary, Rumor: Barnes and Warriors have reached agreement.

===============================================

For a little reminder on Big Shot Barnes, check out this fan's video of Barnes putting the nail in Dallas' coffin.

I love Matt Barnes. Even though he's not from Oakland (he's actually from Citrus Heights, CA), his game fits in so well with how The Town gets down. He's all hustle, is tough, and is just dirty (in a good way of course). He works hard and doesn't take anything from anybody. Basketball wise, he is a great piece for this team. He fits in well as a bench player because he can do many things. He can handle the rock enough that he can bring it up the court like a PG. He also has a knack for the clutch if you remember the big 3's he hit against Dallas in the playoffs. Then there's his defense. He fits in well with Nellie's attacking defense. Since he hustles so much he gets his hands in guys' faces, deflects some passes, and block a shot every now and then. I have no doubt he's working on his game this offseason and is going to come back stronger than before.

Welcome back Matt, we're glad to have you back for another year. Also, good job Mully on bringing back a key piece of last year's team.

Oh yea, and don't forget this one. Just makes you go "Oh my god!"

0 recs  |  Comment 65 comments

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Good.
We should all be happy for him.

Hopefully he will comeback rejuvenated and his shot will continue improve along with his selection.

This is my team There are many like it But this one is mine. My team, without me is useless. Without my team, I am useless

by BlueNgoldBlood on Aug 5, 2007 7:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

YES!!
I hoped he would be signing. I'm glad he's back.
Golden State of Mind- We iBelieve

by goGSW24 on Aug 5, 2007 7:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I am suprised...
only a one year deal? I am happy he is back. Probably not the contract he thought. He'll just have to show everyone why he deserves a long term deal. GO WARRIORS!

by Grandma on Aug 5, 2007 7:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

thank god its only a one year deal
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Aug 6, 2007 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thank god its only a one year deal
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Aug 6, 2007 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Warriors offered
A muti-year deal, but he only wanted a one year deal.

by Psion on Aug 6, 2007 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Matter What Happens Now
I am happy, all I wanted was Barnes Back, and I'm happy, I can't wait til Oct. 30th, ill be there for the season opener!

by LilJay23 on Aug 5, 2007 8:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I knew it...
Someone's gonna get paid 2morrow! (maybe not as much as some other players!) Mullin's gonna show him the Money!

by Tony.psd on Aug 5, 2007 8:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Terrific move by Mullin
Played hardball again and won.

There is hope yet.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 8:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

OZ
Perfectly said.

Hopefully Pietrus at 1 year, $3.4M is on its way...

by UweBlab on Aug 5, 2007 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pietrus
At this point, I hope we either deal him for a backup PG or let him walk.

I think the wings are stacked already, and I wanna make sure there's minutes to go around for Belinelli and Azubuike

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least
something happened on August 6 though not as spectacular had we get KG. Anyway, welcome back Matt, you're worth every lbs and kg of intensity you give every game.

by muritqua on Aug 5, 2007 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing MP will be gone
I'm happy for Barnes as well.  It must have been an anxious time.  I hope we move MP so we can have room for at least Powell.  It would be great to move MP along with Cabbages and maybe even POB, but that is probably hoping for too much.  I still don't get what we will do for a decent backup PG so Baron doesn't have to play too much and get injured (again).  Who is really left?  I think Jason Williams would be too expensive now unless his injuries has significantly decreased his value.

Anyway, back to MP.  I know from GSoM polls most of us would like to see him signed then traded.  What do you think will happen?  But if he stays, I think it is weird MP will get more than Barnes.  Hardly seems fair given their performances last year.  Makes me wonder where that $3.4 qualifying offer came from this year--other than from management of course.  I mean was it a proscribed amount?

Well, do you think MP will be gone now that Matt has returned to the fold?

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Aug 5, 2007 9:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

prescribed amount
required

proscribed means excluded

by Zig on Aug 5, 2007 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

3.4 mil
for MP2 ain't shit. Even with all his bone headed mistakes he is a steal at that price. If we can seriously get him that cheap we should by all means sign him. He's still got some upside and potential in him I think, you could do A LOT worse for that cheap. Plus he already is comfortable with Nellie's system and has chemistry with the other players.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Aug 5, 2007 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not.
Wrong. Pietrus is unteachable. He's never going to not be a scrub.

http://westcoastbiased.blogspot.com

by coma on Aug 6, 2007 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Contracts and such.
The qualifying offer is a set amount based on his previous year's contract.  If I recall correctly, it's equal to 150% of what Pietrus made last year.  

Barnes got what was left of the MLE after using some of it for Perovic, so they gave him exactly what they could.  By waiting, they could say "hey, you wanna be back? You've gotta take this because it's all we've got."  Barnes responded by only taking the one year deal at that price, thinking he could get more in a year.  My guess is that had they not signed Kosta, they'd have spent more on Barnes and it might have been more for more years.  Just a hunch, but that seems to be how it goes.

There's still some serious flaws in the team, but Mullin appears to have learned from his past contract mistakes.

by jae on Aug 6, 2007 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

correction
Sorry. Not 150%.  130%.  Players coming off the 4th year of a rookie contract have a QO set at 130%;

See this entry in Larry's FAQ:  I'd quote it but I cannot seem to make tables appear correctly:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#41

by jae on Aug 6, 2007 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup!
You got it- the qualifying offer is a set number based on draft position:
In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player by June 30.  The amount of the qualifying offer for players on rookie "scale" contracts is based on the player's draft position.  The qualifying offer for all other players must be for 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary (see question number 11) plus $175,000, whichever is greater.  The qualifying offer must be for one season.  A player can elect to accept his qualifying offer (the qualifying offer must be accepted by March 1) and play the following season under its terms.  This is sometimes done in order to become an unrestricted free agent the following summer

Source: Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 9:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks WIZ of OZ
By the way, I could have made a post of this, but thought I'd just stick it in here (tell me which would have been better from a protocal point of view):  I was reading up on what a PER is; and while it is pretty straightforward as a rating system can you or one of the other resident experts tell me if is a useful rating system or has any value in determining a player's worth in a given year?

For instance, if the league average is 15 and both Harrington and Jax are slightly under that figure, what worth does it really have?  And since Barnes and MP were not on the Warrior list as of a few minutes ago, I couldn't find their PER.

Thanks.

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Aug 5, 2007 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's useful- but limited
It's a statistic, which means its a tool. It has its uses, it has its limitations, and how effective it is depends on what you're trying to do and how adept you are at using it.

From John Hollinger's (the inventor) explanation on ESPN PER takes into account all of a player's statistical contributions -- points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, missed shots, turnovers and fouls -- and rolls them up into a score for every player in the league.

...

Perhaps more important, it is a per-minute rating, not the per-game averages we're used to seeing. This distinction is important because we can then compare players whose playing times may be very different and answer questions such as "Should Player X play more than Player Y?" or "Could Player B be helpful to Team A?"

Benefits:

  • It adjusts for "pace", so guys on a uptempo team like the Suns, who have more possessions per game, don't get a crazy advantage, and teams like Houston, who play glacially slow, don't get hurt.
  • It sets league average to 15, so you can have a baseline to compare to.
On it's limitations:
Finally, there is one partial blind spot: defense. PER analyzes players based on blocks, steals and fouls, but that's a small part of overall defense. As a result, defensive specialists who get few blocks or steals, such as Bruce Bowen, end up with a lower rating than we might expect. Similarly, bad defensive players who nonetheless pile up steals or blocks, such as Jason Williams or Raef LaFrentz, rate higher than they ought to.

Note: 15 would be a league average starter, so a bench player with a PER of 15 would be pretty good for his particular role.

I'd also like to add that it might have another flaw:

It's primarily a "rate" measure, so it measures how much production over a certain amount of time. This means a guy like Ike Diogu, who shoots an extremely high percentage and scores pretty well, will look real good despite playing few minutes. His flaws, however, defense and an inability to play in a complex offense w/ movement and passing, mean his coaches (Monty, Nelson, Carlisle) have been reluctant to give him more playing time.

As an example, let's look at a random real world example: "miles per hour (mph)". If you wanted to know how "fast" I went, I could tell you:

"I went 100 mph!"

Which would be great. But if you wanted to know "how far did you travel", you'd need to know how long I sustained that rate of speed (mph):

"Yeah, I went 100 mph!...for a second."

And suddenly my accomplishment wouldn't seem so hot, cuz i actually only traveled .83 miles.

So again...it's useful, but like very statistic, needs to be taken in context of what it is trying to do.

To truly get the big picture, one would need to look at multiple stats, not just PER, and also see the player play. Mix subjective and objective.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

very helpful description OZ,
but my love of math compels me to mention that an object moving at 100 miles per hour travels a distance of 147 feet (0.028 miles) in one second.

by warriorfaninlakerland on Aug 5, 2007 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
That's why I'm in law school- I can't do math!

Yeah, I did 100/120 instead of 100 divided by 60, then divided by 60.

Shoot. Thats what I get for being lazy and fast.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a very good
explanation of PER.  My only disagreements are that 15.0 is not the PER of a "league average starter", but the PER of a league average player.  A league average starter would have a higher PER than 15.0.  

I also don't believe that it is a "flaw" that it rates production per minute.  Statistics over the years have shown that players maintain their PER rate when they increase their amount of playing time.  Although I think that your example of Ike Diogu is an excellent one.  Here is a young player with a slightly above average PER who can't get much playing time in two different systems and for two very respected coaches.  Also, in 06-07, the Warriors and the Pacers were both below average teams when he played on them.

We would probably all agree the reason he didn't play more is because he is not as good as his PER.  But it is not because his PER wouldn't hold up over more playing time (and pardon me if this is not the point you were making), but because the part of a player's performance which is not reflected in PER, man-to-man and team defense, is what makes him a worse player.  He is so terrible at defense that it makes his defense included PER (if there was such a thing) something like 11-12.

I think PER is the best statisical tool out there for evaluating NBA talent.  One thought, is that if you could come up with a defense rating (one that doesn't include blocked shots and steals) based on the PER scale, and pro-rate it to be one third of an overall PER, you might have a better analysis of the complete player.

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hollinger disagrees
From Hollinger's artcle linked above:
Furthermore, using 15.00 is a helpful benchmark because that's about what we expect a run-of-the-mill starter to score in an NBA game. Thus, we can use barometers already hard-wired into our heads -- above 20 is excellent, above 25 is superstardom, and below 10 is brutal.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 6, 2007 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Logically, he's wrong
Theoretically, starters are the top 40% of players on a team. An average starter should mean the player is one of the top 25% guys on a team.  On an average team, logic implies that an average starter would be above a 15.0 PER.  

Even though it's his system, I would disagree with Hollinger.  Altough "run of the mill" sometimes implies below-average/medicore, I think generally it means "averagish".

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PER
Useful?  Sure, but limited and I believe there are better measures.  The biggest flaw with 'PER' is that as it's constructed, it rewards high volume shooters even if they have relatively low FG% on their high volume shots.  

Of note, such high volume, low FG% players are often popularly considered to be very good players.  They score many points, and point per game is the one measure that most people look at first when trying to evaluate players.  The problem with this is that it's a poor measure for predicting team success.  Allen Iverson is perhaps the best example of this. While many consider him one of the best in the game, his presence in a team's lineup seems to have very little influence on the team's record.  His points aren't actually that difficult to replace with the efforts of several players and the abundance of missed shots he has requires that his team rebound at an incredible rate else those misses become wasted scoring opportunities.

Ideally, you want player ratings to have something to do with wins since the object of the game is to win rather than to have a high PER.  It does this to a degree, but not as well as I'd want.  Swapping players with equal PER, even with similar playing time, doesn't necessarily mean that the two teams will perform more or less the same as they did before the trade.  Some argue this is because basketball is just too difficult to equate with formula and stats, and some of that may be true, but it's also because PER doesn't weight shooting efficiency as highly as it should.

PER is becoming popular because it's an "OK" measure (better than PPG certainly) but moreso because Hollinger has a gig at ESPN and thus has a vehicle to present PER to an audience.

by jae on Aug 6, 2007 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oustanding anaylsis, PER
I've only had this discussion with one other person, because PER goes beyond your casual basketball fan.  But yes, there is one real flaw with the PER system and you have nailed it on the head.

Allen Iverson is the great contemporary example of a high volume, low-percentage shooter who is overrated in the PER system.  Hollinger is a very smart guy.  My own theory is that he went with this particular system, just so he would overrate these type of players, because they tend to be big stars. If Allen Iverson rated closer to average, which he should, a lot less people would take his system seriously and it would be harder for him to have a paying gig.  And it's a good thing that some one of his mind set has a prominent voice as he does, IMO.

Yes, there are lots of examples why Allen Iverson makes very little W/L difference to his teams.  How about last season?  Nobody pointed out that Philly didn't get any worse (maybe better?)after he left the team.  Denver had a great start until Anthony got suspended.  Then they slumped but didn't improve when Iverson joined the team.  They only improved when Anthony returned.

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PER and popularity.
Hollinger has openly stated that PER coincides very closely with popular opinion of players.  Those considered stars are rated highly.  This is rather circular reasoning, since what it indicates is that PER tells you what you already believe.  It's a great indicator of player popularity.  It doesn't tell you that an increased PER will result in more wins.  It tells you that an increased PER is usually going to mean more All-Star votes.

If there are players who are undervalued or  over-valued, PER doesn't really detect them well.  

by jae on Aug 6, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PER not far off
PER is likely not much different than the perfect player valuation.  The main difference being, as mentioned, high-volume, low percentage players would get downgraded.  Very good players who don't shoot much would get upgraded.  In a more accurate system, Tim Duncan probably easily has the best PER.  PER also underated David Robinson and probably overated Jordan a bit.  But the top 20 guys in PER, probably represent 15 of the best players in the league.

The bigger problem, as with all statistical systems, is that it can't value defense (save steal and blocks).

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harrington and PER
That Harrington was slightly under average in PER is pretty consistent with the results he's seen on the court for most of his career. He's NOT an above average player.  He scores, but isn't terribly efficient at it, taking more shots to get his points than most guys.  He's not much of a rebounder, passer or shut down defender, doesn't draw fouls.

For almost all of his career, he's been a negative in net +- meaning his teams (both the good ones in Indy and bad ones in ATL) have been better when he's been on the bench. This year the numbers are a bit skewed because the on court time was all post trade and off court time included all the games before he and Jackson arrived and, importantly, after Richardson got healthy. The off court time includes the beginning of the season when Richardson was absent or totally ineffective.

Since rebounds are important and shooting efficiency is important, this isn't really surprising that his +- hasn't been good nor that his PER isn't particularly good.  It's only when you focus in on points per game that Harrington starts to looks above average in any regard.

by jae on Aug 6, 2007 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense in the Warriors System
^ That's where I think Harrington has found his niche. I believe his improvement was visible- he was drawing charges, getting deflection, fronting in the post, generally playing excellent positional defense.

Granted, this was in comparison to having Troy Murphy out there, but we had a positive +/- with him on the floor rather than off it (and generally his backup was Pietrus, Jackson, or Barnes at the 4).

He won't block shots, but he CAN step out on the pick and roll and also rotate across court because of his footspeed.

That is why I believe it's not as easy as some think to find an upgrade at PF. Garnett would have done all the things Harrington does because he's quick enough, but a guy like Camby or Reggie Evans? No way.

And yeah...PER doesn't show these things.

The lesson is,...look at multiple stats and combine with observation.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 6, 2007 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes!

by vietsta4o8 on Aug 5, 2007 9:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Some might call him dirty for other reasons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F256m3T-qKE

Barnes is easy to root for, because he plays with his heart on his sleeve. However, both when he checked James White and at times when he defends to aggressively and picks up silly fouls it can hurt him.

With that said, I too like Matt Barnes. He has a well rounded game and like I said, hes a guy you want to get behind. Good to have him back.

by SkipT on Aug 5, 2007 10:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm
starting to feel better about this season bit by bit.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Aug 5, 2007 10:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like it
It's not a huge move, but I like it.

As for MP2, even if for cheap, he'd only take minutes away from Monta Ellis and Belinelli.  I really want to get JWill for MP2 + change in a S&T some way.

by jlagace on Aug 5, 2007 11:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

great move
barnes was a key piece to the dubs success last season. hopefully he isn't just a one year wonder.

by AJC3317 on Aug 5, 2007 11:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm wonderin'
If Barnes is gonna sport the 'hawk anytime this year, cuz I swear to god I spotted a few cats in the 'sco with the "Barnes" look.
"OHH, MAAAANN!" - Mike Tirico, NBA Playoffs '07

by Tim N Chris Burger on Aug 6, 2007 12:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

re: I'm wonderin'
I heard there were even guys in the 650 getting Barnes-stye mohawks.  I'd like to see Barnes sporting it again for the 2008 playoffs.

Great news on the signing.  A 1-year deal makes sense to both sides ... Barnes wants to prove 06-07 wasn't a fluke so he can cash in; the team isn't sure 06-07 wasn't a fluke.

by jgurney on Aug 6, 2007 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great News!
I am very happy that Barnes is re-signing :)

Hopefully he has another good year.

P-40

by P40 on Aug 6, 2007 5:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Fantastic News
Esp since we're getting him for that price, as he wanted 5 and a half million instead. Smart move for the Warriors to sign him only for a year too.
Golden State Warriors fan since 1984. The Filipino sensation!

by RayAlmeda on Aug 6, 2007 7:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

told ya'all i'd be back...
...believe.

by 321 IN n OUT on Aug 6, 2007 9:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Main reason MP will not be back
This is from the last paragraph of Janny Hu's article on SF gate:

"Golden State still has its bi-annual exception of $1.8 million left, but any other additions outside of league-minimum contracts will have to come via trade. If Pietrus returns, the Warriors would have 16 players under guaranteed contracts and be forced to cut one before the season starts."

The only way I see MP returning is if the Warrior buy out the last year of Jasikevicius' contract (4 million), other wise I don't see who they'd cut to keep MP, because everyone one else was either recently signed (which means we can't cut them until mid-December) or have multiple years left on their contract. So I guess it comes down to do we want more? Our break dancing, back-stepping out of bounce Flying-Frenchman or Cobra Kai esque Serbian cheerleader back for another season with the Warriors.

by mcwalter44 on Aug 6, 2007 9:30 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

keep'n MP
simply means unloading/cutting someone else like POB or ...

for a near 10/5 performer, he's too cheap not to keep over lesser players

by hardcore on Aug 6, 2007 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe
and I may very well be wrong, but the 16 players, besides including Pietrus, includes Lasme, who is not signed but is listed on their roster.  So, (I believe) all the Warriors have to do to get down to 15 players, if Pietrus accepts the qualifying offer, is relinquish their rights to Lasme.  Which is basically the decision they made when they signed Austin "Flowers" Croshere.

Also, hopefully Mullin isn't finished wheeling and dealing, so they could eliminate a player or two from their roster, by taking back one less player in a deal (eg: Jason Wiliams for Pietrus and Jasikevicius).

Forwards: (7)
Jackson
Barnes
Harrington
Wright
Croshere
Lasme
Pietrus

Centers: (4)
Biedrins
Perovic
P.O.B.
Foyle

Guards: (5)
Ellis
Belinelli
Azuibuike
Davis
Jasikevicius

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With no trade...
...I say it's time to cut the cord on Patrick O'Bryant.  Dude sucks and is lazy at practice?  No thanks...

...of course, several homers on this site think we can spin POB, Cabbages and a 2nd round pick to Phoenix for Nash, Marion and Stoudamire!!!

by UweBlab on Aug 6, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They won't cut POB
until all trade options have been explored. Probably not until the season is close at hand.

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course...
...all in all, I'm sure they'll complete a 2-for-1 or something of that ilk.  But if they can't get it done, and someone has to go, I'd like to see it be POB.  He stunk in the NBDL, and in the LVSL.  He has shown no signs of even being a capable backup, roster filler type.

As much as Foyle sucks, I think he is more in a situation where he is in the wrong system.  Foyle belongs in the NBA, just not on a NellieBall team.  POB might not belong in the NBA, period.

by UweBlab on Aug 6, 2007 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Foyle
Also Foyle's contract is, believe it or not, getting less onerous every year.  He could now possibly be included in a  multi-player trade to match salaries and, if the Warriors can hold on to him for the season, his fat expiring salary becomes a big trading asset.

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade
Jasc for a second round pick to Celtics

by ejdacanay on Aug 6, 2007 9:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

CBA experts chime in
Regarding the above question about signing MP: I'm pretty sure they wouldn't need to cut anybody to keep MP, because his salary wouldn't be coming out of any of their exceptions; they can freely re-sign their own free agents, even though they're over the cap. The only deterrent would be if it would put them over the luxury tax level, which this would not.

I think the same holds for draft picks, even ones from years past who had not signed previously. But in the article linked above, Janny says:

Though the team still has a one-year qualifying offer of $3.5 million out to Mickael Pietrus, the Warriors have now used up all of their midlevel exception between Barnes and center Kosta Perovic, who can make up to $1.8 million next season.

Can this be right? Isn't the money used to sign individuals whose draft rights are owned available, even for capped teams, without having to dip into an exception?

And what about Buke? As he was an unrestricted FA, whose Bird rights were not owned by the Dubs, would his salary have to come out of the MLE, along with Croshere's? Maybe Janny's right about the MLE being used up, but incorrect in who it's been used up on.

by ffgolden on Aug 6, 2007 10:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Salaries
Pietrus would not come out of the MLE, we have his "Larry Bird" rights or something like that, and we can sign re-sign him to almost anything (Max is based on his time in the league).

Kosta Perovic, however, did come out of the MLE because he was a 2nd round pick. Seconds do not have a "rookie scale" to fall back on. He has to either get the minimum or a chunk of the MLE.

Not sure on Azubuike, but he got the league minimum. I believe all teams can go over the cap to offer the league minimum to players.

Anyways, I don't want Pietrus simply because I'd rather Azubuike and Belinelli get more burn.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 6, 2007 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perovic's contract
is not a rookie contract, but a FA contract.  I'm not sure if this is technically because he had to be bought out of an exisitng contract or because he was signed more than a year after he was drafted, but either way he signed a contract (3 year $5 million) way more then the normal 2nd round contract (3 year $1.8 million).  Since it was a FA contract the Warriors either had to use their BAE or count it towards their MLE.  They choose the latter.

Neither Croshere's or Azuibuike's contracts came out of the MLE.  Croshere's was the veteran's minimum, which a team can use under any cicrumstances.  Azuibuike's contract, I believe, fit under the salary cap at the time of the signing.  So, the Warrior's MLE was taken up by Barnes and Perovic.  They should still have their BAE to use.

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OZ may be right
that 2nd round draft picks are always free agent contracts.  But I'm not sure if they always count against the salary and luxury caps and that a team has to go into their exceptions in order to sign the 2nd rounders.  Perhaps we could get some clarification on that.  But certainly, in this instance, the Warriors had to go into their exceptions in order to sign Perovic.

As OZ mentioned, the Warriors don't have to go into their exceptions to sign Pietrus, as they still have the "Bird" rights, but the reason they would have to get rid of a player (poossibly Pietrus) is not because of the amount $ of their salaries but because of the amount of players they are allowed to have on their roster.

Also, on Azuibuike, I think he signed for a little more than the minimum, but it fit under the salary cap at the time of the signing.

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks guys
for the clarification. It almost seems counterintuitive that 2nd rounders are treated as free agents for salary purposes, as they are not actually free at all, being able to only accept contracts with the teams that own their draft rights, at least until they are waived. So theoretically, if an overcapped team uses their exceptions up before signing their 2nd rounder, they have to renounce their rights to him (or waive him)?

And as for whether we should sign Pietrus or not: I agree, I'd rather move him so that the Italian Stallion and Buke get some PT. I'm all for the MP2+Jasi for Jason Williams deal; he's an expensive rent-a-PG, but he comes off the books next season so it doesn't hurt us one bit. The one problem with this is that it'd effectively end Monta's PG experiment, but that might have to end anyway in the post-JRich era.

by ffgolden on Aug 6, 2007 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

League Minimum
IIRC you can always sign a player to a league minimum contract no matter what you situation with MLE, BAE etc. The fact is most 2nd round picks do sign for the league minimum so they usually have little to no effect on the cap situation and Kosta was unusual in the fact that his contract was larger than most 2nd rounders.
.

by olympicmike on Aug 6, 2007 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Minimum salaries.
Azubuike and Croshere both got 'minimum' contracts. Croshere's was larger because he's got more years of service.  The Warriors were over the cap when they signed Azubuike.  He got a 2 year-minimum contract for a player with one year in the league.  

The distinction between "minimum" and "vet minimum" is just the number of years in the league for the most part, though after (I believe) 2 full years in the league, anything above the scale for a 2 year vet gets paid by the league and only the 2 year amount ($770k this season) counts against the cap and the lux tax.

by jae on Aug 6, 2007 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Steal
Just in case there's anyone that thinks this isn't a ridiculous steal:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47506/20070806/masons_contract_worth_$103_million/

Crap like Desmond Mason got $10M/2 years. Crazy.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 6, 2007 11:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My general concern
with the Barnes signing is that it leaves the Warriors less room to maneuver below the luxury tax. This is because Pietrus's salary is likely to be counted towards the tax, one way or another.  Either he accepts the Warriors qualifying offer, or he is traded and the Warriors receive equal salary in return.  It seems very unlikely, at this point, that Pietrus will sign a FA contract with another team, because there don't appear to be any offers that compete with the $3.5 million qualifying offer.

Adding Barnes' and Pietrus's contracts, it leaves the Warriors combined salaries around $64 million.  This does not leave them enough money to use their trade exeception to acquire the rebounding PF that they so desperately need.  I love Barnes, but this makes Mullin's moves to acquire that PF that much more difficult.

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 12:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Heck yazzz!
was gone for a few days w/no internet access
Barnes re-signing is great news to come back to!

by Anomaly on Aug 6, 2007 7:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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