Rumor: Barnes Will Sign on Monday
Breaking news...(breaking news noise, doo doo doo)...GSoM friend, pree, is reporting that Matt "Big Shot" Barnes is going to sign with the Warriors tomorrow. Pree told me he just talked to Barnes and it's going to go down.
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For a little reminder on Big Shot Barnes, check out this fan's video of Barnes putting the nail in Dallas' coffin.
I love Matt Barnes. Even though he's not from Oakland (he's actually from Citrus Heights, CA), his game fits in so well with how The Town gets down. He's all hustle, is tough, and is just dirty (in a good way of course). He works hard and doesn't take anything from anybody. Basketball wise, he is a great piece for this team. He fits in well as a bench player because he can do many things. He can handle the rock enough that he can bring it up the court like a PG. He also has a knack for the clutch if you remember the big 3's he hit against Dallas in the playoffs. Then there's his defense. He fits in well with Nellie's attacking defense. Since he hustles so much he gets his hands in guys' faces, deflects some passes, and block a shot every now and then. I have no doubt he's working on his game this offseason and is going to come back stronger than before.
Welcome back Matt, we're glad to have you back for another year. Also, good job Mully on bringing back a key piece of last year's team.
Oh yea, and don't forget this one. Just makes you go "Oh my god!"
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65 comments
Comments
Good.
Hopefully he will comeback rejuvenated and his shot will continue improve along with his selection.
by BlueNgoldBlood on Aug 5, 2007 7:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it's official
by maybenextyear on Aug 6, 2007 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES!!
Golden State of Mind- We iBelieve
by goGSW24 on Aug 5, 2007 7:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am suprised...
by Grandma on Aug 5, 2007 7:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thank god its only a one year deal
by kenntoe on Aug 6, 2007 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank god its only a one year deal
by kenntoe on Aug 6, 2007 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Warriors offered
by Psion on Aug 6, 2007 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Matter What Happens Now
by LilJay23 on Aug 5, 2007 8:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I knew it...

by Tony.psd on Aug 5, 2007 8:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Terrific move by Mullin
There is hope yet.
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 8:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OZ
Hopefully Pietrus at 1 year, $3.4M is on its way...
by UweBlab on Aug 5, 2007 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pietrus
I think the wings are stacked already, and I wanna make sure there's minutes to go around for Belinelli and Azubuike
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least
by muritqua on Aug 5, 2007 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing MP will be gone
Anyway, back to MP. I know from GSoM polls most of us would like to see him signed then traded. What do you think will happen? But if he stays, I think it is weird MP will get more than Barnes. Hardly seems fair given their performances last year. Makes me wonder where that $3.4 qualifying offer came from this year--other than from management of course. I mean was it a proscribed amount?
Well, do you think MP will be gone now that Matt has returned to the fold?
You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"
by commish on Aug 5, 2007 9:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
prescribed amount
proscribed means excluded
by Zig on Aug 5, 2007 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3.4 mil
by J Rich 4 MVP on Aug 5, 2007 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not.

http://westcoastbiased.blogspot.com
by coma on Aug 6, 2007 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contracts and such.
Barnes got what was left of the MLE after using some of it for Perovic, so they gave him exactly what they could. By waiting, they could say "hey, you wanna be back? You've gotta take this because it's all we've got." Barnes responded by only taking the one year deal at that price, thinking he could get more in a year. My guess is that had they not signed Kosta, they'd have spent more on Barnes and it might have been more for more years. Just a hunch, but that seems to be how it goes.
There's still some serious flaws in the team, but Mullin appears to have learned from his past contract mistakes.
by jae on Aug 6, 2007 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction
See this entry in Larry's FAQ: I'd quote it but I cannot seem to make tables appear correctly:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#41
by jae on Aug 6, 2007 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup!
Source: Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 9:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks WIZ of OZ
For instance, if the league average is 15 and both Harrington and Jax are slightly under that figure, what worth does it really have? And since Barnes and MP were not on the Warrior list as of a few minutes ago, I couldn't find their PER.
Thanks.
You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"
by commish on Aug 5, 2007 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's useful- but limited
From John Hollinger's (the inventor) explanation on ESPN PER takes into account all of a player's statistical contributions -- points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, missed shots, turnovers and fouls -- and rolls them up into a score for every player in the league.
...
Benefits:
- It adjusts for "pace", so guys on a uptempo team like the Suns, who have more possessions per game, don't get a crazy advantage, and teams like Houston, who play glacially slow, don't get hurt.
- It sets league average to 15, so you can have a baseline to compare to.
Note: 15 would be a league average starter, so a bench player with a PER of 15 would be pretty good for his particular role.
I'd also like to add that it might have another flaw:
It's primarily a "rate" measure, so it measures how much production over a certain amount of time. This means a guy like Ike Diogu, who shoots an extremely high percentage and scores pretty well, will look real good despite playing few minutes. His flaws, however, defense and an inability to play in a complex offense w/ movement and passing, mean his coaches (Monty, Nelson, Carlisle) have been reluctant to give him more playing time.
As an example, let's look at a random real world example: "miles per hour (mph)". If you wanted to know how "fast" I went, I could tell you:
"I went 100 mph!"
Which would be great. But if you wanted to know "how far did you travel", you'd need to know how long I sustained that rate of speed (mph):
"Yeah, I went 100 mph!...for a second."
And suddenly my accomplishment wouldn't seem so hot, cuz i actually only traveled .83 miles.
So again...it's useful, but like very statistic, needs to be taken in context of what it is trying to do.
To truly get the big picture, one would need to look at multiple stats, not just PER, and also see the player play. Mix subjective and objective.
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
very helpful description OZ,
by warriorfaninlakerland on Aug 5, 2007 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Yeah, I did 100/120 instead of 100 divided by 60, then divided by 60.
Shoot. Thats what I get for being lazy and fast.
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 5, 2007 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a very good
I also don't believe that it is a "flaw" that it rates production per minute. Statistics over the years have shown that players maintain their PER rate when they increase their amount of playing time. Although I think that your example of Ike Diogu is an excellent one. Here is a young player with a slightly above average PER who can't get much playing time in two different systems and for two very respected coaches. Also, in 06-07, the Warriors and the Pacers were both below average teams when he played on them.
We would probably all agree the reason he didn't play more is because he is not as good as his PER. But it is not because his PER wouldn't hold up over more playing time (and pardon me if this is not the point you were making), but because the part of a player's performance which is not reflected in PER, man-to-man and team defense, is what makes him a worse player. He is so terrible at defense that it makes his defense included PER (if there was such a thing) something like 11-12.
I think PER is the best statisical tool out there for evaluating NBA talent. One thought, is that if you could come up with a defense rating (one that doesn't include blocked shots and steals) based on the PER scale, and pro-rate it to be one third of an overall PER, you might have a better analysis of the complete player.
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hollinger disagrees
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 6, 2007 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Logically, he's wrong
Even though it's his system, I would disagree with Hollinger. Altough "run of the mill" sometimes implies below-average/medicore, I think generally it means "averagish".
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PER
Of note, such high volume, low FG% players are often popularly considered to be very good players. They score many points, and point per game is the one measure that most people look at first when trying to evaluate players. The problem with this is that it's a poor measure for predicting team success. Allen Iverson is perhaps the best example of this. While many consider him one of the best in the game, his presence in a team's lineup seems to have very little influence on the team's record. His points aren't actually that difficult to replace with the efforts of several players and the abundance of missed shots he has requires that his team rebound at an incredible rate else those misses become wasted scoring opportunities.
Ideally, you want player ratings to have something to do with wins since the object of the game is to win rather than to have a high PER. It does this to a degree, but not as well as I'd want. Swapping players with equal PER, even with similar playing time, doesn't necessarily mean that the two teams will perform more or less the same as they did before the trade. Some argue this is because basketball is just too difficult to equate with formula and stats, and some of that may be true, but it's also because PER doesn't weight shooting efficiency as highly as it should.
PER is becoming popular because it's an "OK" measure (better than PPG certainly) but moreso because Hollinger has a gig at ESPN and thus has a vehicle to present PER to an audience.
by jae on Aug 6, 2007 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oustanding anaylsis, PER
Allen Iverson is the great contemporary example of a high volume, low-percentage shooter who is overrated in the PER system. Hollinger is a very smart guy. My own theory is that he went with this particular system, just so he would overrate these type of players, because they tend to be big stars. If Allen Iverson rated closer to average, which he should, a lot less people would take his system seriously and it would be harder for him to have a paying gig. And it's a good thing that some one of his mind set has a prominent voice as he does, IMO.
Yes, there are lots of examples why Allen Iverson makes very little W/L difference to his teams. How about last season? Nobody pointed out that Philly didn't get any worse (maybe better?)after he left the team. Denver had a great start until Anthony got suspended. Then they slumped but didn't improve when Iverson joined the team. They only improved when Anthony returned.
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PER and popularity.
If there are players who are undervalued or over-valued, PER doesn't really detect them well.
by jae on Aug 6, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PER not far off
The bigger problem, as with all statistical systems, is that it can't value defense (save steal and blocks).
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harrington and PER
For almost all of his career, he's been a negative in net +- meaning his teams (both the good ones in Indy and bad ones in ATL) have been better when he's been on the bench. This year the numbers are a bit skewed because the on court time was all post trade and off court time included all the games before he and Jackson arrived and, importantly, after Richardson got healthy. The off court time includes the beginning of the season when Richardson was absent or totally ineffective.
Since rebounds are important and shooting efficiency is important, this isn't really surprising that his +- hasn't been good nor that his PER isn't particularly good. It's only when you focus in on points per game that Harrington starts to looks above average in any regard.
by jae on Aug 6, 2007 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense in the Warriors System
Granted, this was in comparison to having Troy Murphy out there, but we had a positive +/- with him on the floor rather than off it (and generally his backup was Pietrus, Jackson, or Barnes at the 4).
He won't block shots, but he CAN step out on the pick and roll and also rotate across court because of his footspeed.
That is why I believe it's not as easy as some think to find an upgrade at PF. Garnett would have done all the things Harrington does because he's quick enough, but a guy like Camby or Reggie Evans? No way.
And yeah...PER doesn't show these things.
The lesson is,...look at multiple stats and combine with observation.
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 6, 2007 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some might call him dirty for other reasons
Barnes is easy to root for, because he plays with his heart on his sleeve. However, both when he checked James White and at times when he defends to aggressively and picks up silly fouls it can hurt him.
With that said, I too like Matt Barnes. He has a well rounded game and like I said, hes a guy you want to get behind. Good to have him back.
by SkipT on Aug 5, 2007 10:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm
by J Rich 4 MVP on Aug 5, 2007 10:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like it
As for MP2, even if for cheap, he'd only take minutes away from Monta Ellis and Belinelli. I really want to get JWill for MP2 + change in a S&T some way.
by jlagace on Aug 5, 2007 11:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
great move
by AJC3317 on Aug 5, 2007 11:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm wonderin'
"OHH, MAAAANN!" - Mike Tirico, NBA Playoffs '07
by Tim N Chris Burger on Aug 6, 2007 12:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
re: I'm wonderin'
Great news on the signing. A 1-year deal makes sense to both sides ... Barnes wants to prove 06-07 wasn't a fluke so he can cash in; the team isn't sure 06-07 wasn't a fluke.
by jgurney on Aug 6, 2007 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i did the barnes hawk for a month
by dso on Aug 6, 2007 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great News!
Hopefully he has another good year.
by P40 on Aug 6, 2007 5:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic News
by RayAlmeda on Aug 6, 2007 7:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
told ya'all i'd be back...
by 321 IN n OUT on Aug 6, 2007 9:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Main reason MP will not be back
"Golden State still has its bi-annual exception of $1.8 million left, but any other additions outside of league-minimum contracts will have to come via trade. If Pietrus returns, the Warriors would have 16 players under guaranteed contracts and be forced to cut one before the season starts."
The only way I see MP returning is if the Warrior buy out the last year of Jasikevicius' contract (4 million), other wise I don't see who they'd cut to keep MP, because everyone one else was either recently signed (which means we can't cut them until mid-December) or have multiple years left on their contract. So I guess it comes down to do we want more? Our break dancing, back-stepping out of bounce Flying-Frenchman or Cobra Kai esque Serbian cheerleader back for another season with the Warriors.

by mcwalter44 on Aug 6, 2007 9:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
keep'n MP
for a near 10/5 performer, he's too cheap not to keep over lesser players
by hardcore on Aug 6, 2007 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
Also, hopefully Mullin isn't finished wheeling and dealing, so they could eliminate a player or two from their roster, by taking back one less player in a deal (eg: Jason Wiliams for Pietrus and Jasikevicius).
Forwards: (7)
Jackson
Barnes
Harrington
Wright
Croshere
Lasme
Pietrus
Centers: (4)
Biedrins
Perovic
P.O.B.
Foyle
Guards: (5)
Ellis
Belinelli
Azuibuike
Davis
Jasikevicius
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With no trade...
...of course, several homers on this site think we can spin POB, Cabbages and a 2nd round pick to Phoenix for Nash, Marion and Stoudamire!!!
by UweBlab on Aug 6, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They won't cut POB
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course...
As much as Foyle sucks, I think he is more in a situation where he is in the wrong system. Foyle belongs in the NBA, just not on a NellieBall team. POB might not belong in the NBA, period.
by UweBlab on Aug 6, 2007 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Foyle
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade
by ejdacanay on Aug 6, 2007 9:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
CBA experts chime in
I think the same holds for draft picks, even ones from years past who had not signed previously. But in the article linked above, Janny says:
Can this be right? Isn't the money used to sign individuals whose draft rights are owned available, even for capped teams, without having to dip into an exception?
And what about Buke? As he was an unrestricted FA, whose Bird rights were not owned by the Dubs, would his salary have to come out of the MLE, along with Croshere's? Maybe Janny's right about the MLE being used up, but incorrect in who it's been used up on.
by ffgolden on Aug 6, 2007 10:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Salaries
Kosta Perovic, however, did come out of the MLE because he was a 2nd round pick. Seconds do not have a "rookie scale" to fall back on. He has to either get the minimum or a chunk of the MLE.
Not sure on Azubuike, but he got the league minimum. I believe all teams can go over the cap to offer the league minimum to players.
Anyways, I don't want Pietrus simply because I'd rather Azubuike and Belinelli get more burn.
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 6, 2007 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perovic's contract
Neither Croshere's or Azuibuike's contracts came out of the MLE. Croshere's was the veteran's minimum, which a team can use under any cicrumstances. Azuibuike's contract, I believe, fit under the salary cap at the time of the signing. So, the Warrior's MLE was taken up by Barnes and Perovic. They should still have their BAE to use.
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OZ may be right
As OZ mentioned, the Warriors don't have to go into their exceptions to sign Pietrus, as they still have the "Bird" rights, but the reason they would have to get rid of a player (poossibly Pietrus) is not because of the amount $ of their salaries but because of the amount of players they are allowed to have on their roster.
Also, on Azuibuike, I think he signed for a little more than the minimum, but it fit under the salary cap at the time of the signing.
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks guys
And as for whether we should sign Pietrus or not: I agree, I'd rather move him so that the Italian Stallion and Buke get some PT. I'm all for the MP2+Jasi for Jason Williams deal; he's an expensive rent-a-PG, but he comes off the books next season so it doesn't hurt us one bit. The one problem with this is that it'd effectively end Monta's PG experiment, but that might have to end anyway in the post-JRich era.
by ffgolden on Aug 6, 2007 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
League Minimum
.
by olympicmike on Aug 6, 2007 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minimum salaries.
The distinction between "minimum" and "vet minimum" is just the number of years in the league for the most part, though after (I believe) 2 full years in the league, anything above the scale for a 2 year vet gets paid by the league and only the 2 year amount ($770k this season) counts against the cap and the lux tax.
by jae on Aug 6, 2007 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steal
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47506/20070806/masons_contract_worth_$103_million/
Crap like Desmond Mason got $10M/2 years. Crazy.
Questions? Complaints?
(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)
by OptionZero on Aug 6, 2007 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My general concern
Adding Barnes' and Pietrus's contracts, it leaves the Warriors combined salaries around $64 million. This does not leave them enough money to use their trade exeception to acquire the rebounding PF that they so desperately need. I love Barnes, but this makes Mullin's moves to acquire that PF that much more difficult.
by San Francisco Slim on Aug 6, 2007 12:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Heck yazzz!
Barnes re-signing is great news to come back to!
by Anomaly on Aug 6, 2007 7:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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