Rumor: Shawn Marion (Update: to LA for Odom?)

by OptionZero on Sep 25, 2007 11:27 AM PDT Comment 45 comments

Apparently, the summer of discontent just won't end- or at least, journalists won't let it. From the Arizona Republic, comes yet another article about Marion's discontent. Now, it's because the Suns refuse to talk about a contract extension.

Marion never is one to arrive too early. Last year, he showed up at the arena on Sept. 19 and on Sept. 23 in 2005. By all accounts, Marion is not wearing the grin seen in his furniture-store commercials, but that's hearsay, because Marion and his agent have not returned a call.

But according to several Suns sources, Marion seems to be unhappy that the team will not talk about a contract extension. The word is that the four-time All-Star, in his eighth year with the team, wants $60 million over three years. Marion, already the highest-paid Suns player, will make $16.4 million this season and $17.8 million for 2008-09.

...

The two top trade possibilities involve Utah Jazz forward Andrei Kirilenko, who is even more disgruntled with his team, and Los Angeles Lakers forward Lamar Odom and a teammate, possibly forward Brian Cook.

I guess the Warriors should be happy that Baron Davis has been relatively calm about it, because there's been no talk that he's going to be a malcontent in the locker room if we don't get things done.

This impacts any Kirilenko dreams we might have, since Marion, on the court, is better than anything we can offer. Fortunately, the Jazz are unlikely to even think about giving out a $20M/year extension.

I also doubt the Suns deal with the Lakers, an in-division rival.

Ultimately without an explicit trade demand, I think Marion keeps whining but also keeps playing this season, then opts out, tests the market next year, finds no one able to give him $20M, and returns to the Suns. Unless Baron walks...

=========================================

[Moderator's Note, by OptionZero:]

According to The Sporting News:

According to a league source, the Lakers and Suns have been in discussions about a deal -- a blockbuster deal -- that would send the four-time All-Star to Los Angeles to play alongside Kobe Bryant. The Suns would get forward Lamar Odom and perhaps some salary-cap filler in return. The main obstacle appears to be Lakers owner Jerry Buss, who needs to OK the deal. Asked to handicap the likelihood of the deal going through, the source said, "50-50." Hrm. This might seem to make both teams worse; Odom's a significantly worse defender and rebounder than Marion and IMO Marion is what makes the Suns undersized lineup work in the first place. The Lakers would be worse because Marion would be an undersized 3 who isn't the passer/ball handler that Odom is in the triangle. Hey, I'm all for it! Also check out Eric Pincus' article on Hoops World who disagrees and makes a case about why Marion would help LA.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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yeah

i don't think he'll be getting $20 mill. a year from Phoenix. i wonder if the warriors would go after him if Baron decided to walk. It would be interesting to see that happen, and see who the warriors draft or acquire to play point guard. assuming monta holds down the 2 spot.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Sep 25, 2007 2:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i don't think that's possible

unless we do a sign-and-trade

by lightz0ut on Sep 25, 2007 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Both

have ETO (early termination options) on their contracts, if both Baron and Marion decide to opt out, we can go out and sign marion.

That's what i'm under the impression of thinking. I doubt We'd have enough for him though.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Sep 25, 2007 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Am I the only one

who thinks $20 million for Marion is crazy?

by BingBluNT on Sep 25, 2007 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

no

i am sure Sarver agrees with you.
This is really nothing new though, between him and stoudamire,for the last few offseasons one of the two is either unhappy, or on the block.(at least that is in the media)I would be very surprised if he got moved, if he threatens to walk they may try to move him at the deadline

by azw on Sep 25, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

$20M for Marion

He has consistently been around 20pts, 10 boards, 2 steals, 2 blocks, a three, a couple assts, good fg%, good ft%.

He's a versatile defender, rebounds spectacularly well for a small forward. The only thing more I could ask for is a little more passing and slightly better 3p%, but other than that..

This guy is an ironman, he plays 78-82 games every year.

If Baron opts out, I throw the bank at Marion, trade Ellis for a high pick, grab Luke Ridnour, sign Carlos Arroyo, and continue on my merry way.

Marion is an even better complement to Harrington because he covers for Al's rebounding and shotblocking deficiencies.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 25, 2007 4:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

nah...

you don't throw 20M to a complementary player, and Marion, despite his gaudy numbers, is a complementary player - Not good enough on offense to carry the load when needed, and not good enough on defense to shut-down anyone.

by MightyReds2020 on Sep 26, 2007 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

thats way too much money for a player like that. Hes not a guy whose goin to make this team go deeper in the playoffs IMO.

by djchuckdeez on Sep 26, 2007 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't

Marion around with the Suns before Amare and Nash? As I remember it, they were pretty god awful. Marion isn't worth 20 million a year. You might as well roll over and play dead if you're going to give him that much money because it'll cripple your franchise. Sure he's a hell of a player but he isn't the type of player you build your team around at all.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Sep 26, 2007 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

pre Nash

The pre-Nash Suns were terrible. They were terrible with Stoudemire averaging 20ppg pre Nash as well.

by jae on Sep 26, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha lol

Option i think we're thinking along the same page.

By trading Ellis i have doubts about whether the warriors would be getting a high enough draft pick to make it worth while.

I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him. getting something of worth is what we need.

I would be down with Luke, or instead of Arroyo i would try and get Sergio Rodriguez or Jose Calderon.

I'd love to see a lineup of:

Jose Calderon/Hudson/Monta
Monta Ellis/Belinelli/Azuibuke
Stephen Jackson/Al Harrington
Shawn Marion/Brandan Wright/Lasme
Andris Biedrins/Perovic

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Sep 25, 2007 4:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

hudson

why's that guy still around next year?!

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 25, 2007 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ooh la la

will steve nash retire by then? trade baron for marion

how bout a lineup of:
pg - ellis
sg - jackson
sf - harrington
pf - marion
cc - biedrins

what do you think this team can do?

by thewarriorsrule on Sep 26, 2007 1:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meh

Barring an absolutely meteoric rise by Monta, probably less than the current team can do.

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 26, 2007 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cool

why don't we trade Ellis and Harrington for Kobe and then swing a deal with the Spurs sending out Jackson and Biedrins for Duncan and Parker. Then we'll magically trade POB, Hudson and Pietrus for KG. If that's not enough we'll trade Belinelli for Lebron James. Now our line up is as follows...

PG - Tony Parker
SG - Kobe
SF - King James
PF - KG
C - Tim Duncan

by J Rich 4 MVP on Sep 26, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget 2 include Chuck Norris.....

The funny thing is this trade makes about as much sense as about half the others on this site! I love how people are always drinking 40's before they post up on here about "oh we should trade POB for Duncan" and crazy stuff like that... Some people need to come back to the planet cuz they are talking like space cadets out there!

But since we are talking about serious line ups I'd like to also see MJ from the 80's on our team as well as D-Wade pre-sholder injury and maybe Arvydas Sabonis cerca 1988. Oh, and don't forget Chuck Norris at the point.

Thanks!

"Hold It Down For The Bay Reppin Oakland" --Keak Da Sneak

by Section 233 Row 1 on Sep 26, 2007 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh

I know it's fun to pile on, but the trade Warriorsrule proposed -- Baron for Marion -- isn't really that mismatched in terms of talent. It's not very realistic, but you gotta give him credit for back some real talent, which is more than can be said for 90% of the proposed trades here (including some by me...)

I agree with your flame in general principle, but it's not really appropriate here. You gotta be sparing with that stuff.

Also, if we had Norris at the point (Chuck not Moochie) we wouldn't need MJ or any of those other losers. Norris plus four POBs would go 82-0.

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 26, 2007 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baron Davis isn't complaining

because at least the Warriors are listening to what he has to say about an extension (or that's the impression I'm under). It's obvious the Suns don't want to pay luxury tax for Marion.

by racsan on Sep 25, 2007 5:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

haha

probably not. i just didn't want to think anymore.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Sep 25, 2007 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Marion for Odom

is a better deal for LA in my opinion: Marion's shooting gives him a role in the triangle and also spaces the floor for Bynum. Don't know why Phoenix does this, unless they feel they need to abandon smallball.

This is a very dangerous trade for LA unless they are positive that Phoenix's talent level decreases: if Odom does make a large impact there and they go on to win a championship, your fans will not forgive you for helping a division rival like that. Especially the same division rival featuring Raja Bell.

by BingBluNT on Sep 25, 2007 11:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

the money

Phoenix, if they do this, would be motivated by money. Marion is due $17M next year and is demanding $20m/year.

Odom makes significantly less.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 25, 2007 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marion > Odom

Assuming it's straight up, it makes LA slightly better and Phoenix slightly worse. Not that much more complicated than that.

From our perspective, I guess it's close to a wash. It'd be nice to have the putative #2 in the West knocked down a peg, but it would kind of suck to see one of our closest competitors move up. Kobe/Marion is about as close as it gets in this league to Jordan/Pippen. Matrix may lack Pip's (and Odom's) passing ability, but in his scrappiness and defensive intensity, he seems like a pretty perfect complement to the Kobester. I'd definitely fear that team... :-(

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 26, 2007 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

why

Why are people on this board talking so much about not resigning baron/trading monta/signing Marion over Baron/signing mediocre at best Luke Ridnour or Carlos Arroyo?

Am I the only person who shakes his head in disbelief when reading these posts?

by sloth11 on Sep 25, 2007 11:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

the money

Because the NBA operates under a Collective Bargaining Agreement struck by owners and players.

Fans can moan about it all they want, but this is the reality of basketball today.

It's a business. That won't make you happy, but it's the sad truth.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 25, 2007 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not the only one

I haven't quite figured out how Calderon+Monta=Baron either.

On Marion: many argue that while he's an integral part of what makes the Suns successful, he's also a product of Nash's leadership and playmaking. Don't get me wrong, I like Marion a lot, and his numbers speak loudly. But, is he a primary option on offense? Is he capable of taking a team on his back and taking over a game that seems hopeless, only to find a way to win? These are the questions I would ask when thinking about paying a guy $15mil+. I think he'd be a fantastic Warrior, playing alongside Baron Davis. Playing alongside Calderon and Stephen Jackson, with the star tattooed on his forehead and the target on his back? I'm not quite sold.

by ffgolden on Sep 25, 2007 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice post

...

by thewarriorsrule on Sep 26, 2007 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marion

is he a primary option on offense?

Nope

Is he capable of taking a team on his back and taking over a game that seems hopeless, only to find a way to win?

I think so, unless you're talking about scoring.

Is he worth 20 million per year?

Absolutely, he's good at everything and durable. Anybody that's a top 3 fantasy pick year after year is worth 20 million.

More Hardware Coming!

by gsw4life on Sep 26, 2007 5:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fantasy argument

is actually somewhat convincing. He may well be worth $20mil for the numbers he brings to the table.

But he's still a complimentary player IMO. A good one--maybe even the best--and possibly worth the money, but I think he needs an alpha-type player. Nash and Stoudemire play that part, and he'd probably compliment Kobe nicely. He'd compliment Baron nicely. But if Baron's gone and we just have Marion and some talented youngsters, he'd probably still get good numbers, but I don't know how much winning we'd get done. I could have it all wrong though.

by ffgolden on Sep 26, 2007 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

first thing

i do not thing calderon + Monta = Baron. Far, Far from it. But if we can shore up our frontline by adding a top 15 combo forward, than i think its something worth looking into. We're not the Yankees where we can buy every damn player on the market. There needs to be a trade-off. By adding a guy like calderon, or atleast someone servicable, we could offset the loss of Baron with Marion and a decent PG.

Is Marion a primary option on offense? NO. But i don't agree that he is just a byproduct of Nash either. I believe he played a couple seasons with Stephon "Get in my truck" Marbury. While a decent playmaker, he is much more of a scorer. I think he can get his own scoring options, its just that Nash of course makes it look effortless.

Your second question is much more harder to answer. My gut feeling is no. But, Marion does all the little things that do not show up in the box score. He guards the opposing team's best player, hustles, grabs boards. On the nights when he's not producing offensively, he is always there hustling.

i can go either way on this. If we get him, thats great, if not, oh well.

I'd much rather go after Elton Brand. I think he is a top 10 player in his own right. I think he can run the court pretty decent for a big guy.

Another thing, why would Phx go after Odom if they already have Diaw? they seem rather redundant don't you all think. Although i think Odom is much better, how can the two co-exist on the court?

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Sep 26, 2007 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

People

are not talking about giving up Baron & Monta to get Ridnour & Arroyo.

Option zero is talking about it.

I also have a big problem paying a player $20 million who is currently the third option on his team, and surrounding him with role players. Unless Biedrins learns how to take his man in half-court situations and how to pass out of it, a lineup of average PGs, Jackson, Harrington, Marion, and Biedrins isn't going to create much offense.

by BingBluNT on Sep 26, 2007 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh please yes

Marion to the fakers...I agree with OZ here, a Marion-less Suns team just doesn't seem as potent. I'm just not a big Lamar fan and Marion's skills are the perfect compliment for the run n gun game. Take him away and they lose a lot IMO.
Unfortunately we'd still have to deal with him in LA, but I think the W's still would have the better team. Sure would be interesting though. The Lakers almost HAVE to do something to make Kobe happy right??

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Sep 25, 2007 11:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

On the talent end of things,

It would seem like a lateral move. And in my eyes, it would actually slighty hamper both teams(the lakers more than the suns), since its late enough in the off season that the difference in team philosophies may cause a month of awkwardness for both teams.

One thing to note, is that the triangle offense isn't the easiest transition for a run and gun player. My cousin was a standout point guard in high school and he transfered to a prep school his junior year. He played in a running system his first years, and when he transfered they played the triangle and he said it took him a month into his senior season to get the offense. A year and a few months is long time to get used to a system. Now comparing highschool ballers to NBA ballers IS apples to oranges, but their still both fruits. I figure it'll take marion at least 2-4 months to fit in.

If that means the lakers(who are on the same bubble as the dubs) are sub-par for a month, I say I'm all for the trade.

The best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Sep 25, 2007 11:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Marion is dope but

He has nash to distribute and he's running in the suns system so you have to believe he's playing at his top potential. He's very expensive and I don't know if I can watch him shoot every game. Bring on the AK-47 movement. In the warriors system he would average at least 4 blocks and add some serious length and D. Bring on AK and run everyone into the gound.

Listen to the wise, be patient.

by raypress23 on Sep 26, 2007 7:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Before Nash

If you look at what Marion did before Nash became a Sun and before they ran their high-scoring system, you get more of an idea of what he can do, and it's still really, really good. Before Nash, Marion was putting up more or less the same numbers he puts up now. His rebounds were down just a touch then, probably because the pace of the game was slower and there were fewer opportunities, and his FG% has improved a touch. Both are probably Nash-related. But he was still very, very good before Nash and to attribute Marion's success to Nash and the 'system' you have to ignore that he performed pretty much the same in a different 'system' before Nash.

by jae on Sep 26, 2007 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

On the other hand

He is 29, plays a game that's heavily reliant on physical explosiveness, and showed signs of very slight decline last year (in scoring, reb rate, and PER).

Also, I have to say I really don't get what the f*ck his problem is. He's playing in the ideal system for him, a great hoops town, one of 2 or 3 teams with a legit title shot, with a fantastic coach and two stars who complement his game perfectly. This isn't Kirilenko, who has (presumably) been humiliated by his coach and made to play a style and position unsuited to his strengths.

Look how calmly and quietly BD's dealing with his extension negotiation, and compare that to Marion's adolescent whining.

Love Marion as a player, but if you consider his age, position, and evident lack of maturity, there's no way in hell he's worth the 3/$60M extension he's apparently seeking. Straight up, I'd probably rather have Baron, even given the health risks. Baron at 3/$40M v. Marion at 3/$60M? No brainer.

Now if we could ink them both for 3/$80-90M total, that could be intriguing...

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 26, 2007 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Getting Marion?

I am a huge Marion fan and I think he would fit into our system perfectly and be a great player IF he had a borderline all-star or better in the team as well (preferably at the point). However, we probably couldn't keep him here with Baron (because of $) so I don't think we should get him. If we got Marion, we probably couldn't keep Baron as well as one of Ellis and Biedrins.

I think we would do much better keeping Ellis and Biedrins, extending Baron for as little $ as he would agree to and getting a good role player or better but not an all-star like Marion. I think we should maybe try and get Varejao or Artest (via a trade). I think we could get Artest without giving too much away if we offered the Kings a decent little package in exchange for him. Then, we wouldn't have big salary problems, we could keep hold of Baron and build with a bright future.

by zaki on Sep 26, 2007 10:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

TIME

TO USE THE 10 MILLION TRADE EXCEPTION

Best seat in the House

by kaszowski on Sep 26, 2007 1:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Worth looking into... next offseason

Phoenix simply won't trade Marion to the warriors. Any package we can offer doesn't come close to improving their team enough considering what Marion would do for us.

The only way we get him, in my opinion, is if we let Baron walk and sign Marion instead. The only way this makes sense is if Monta blows up this year like many are hoping/predicting. Monta would have to improve his handles and shooting so that he could run the point and also make defenders respect his outside shot.

Monta/True PG
Jackson/Belinelli
Harrington/Kazu!
Marion/Wright
Biedrins

IF Monta improves and we can find a backup center who can protect the rim and rebound, thats a pretty damn good team. Great shooting. Solid if not very good defense.

But I don't expect Monta to improve that much over the next 8 months. Even if he does Marion may already be on another team with an extension.

by BingBluNT on Sep 26, 2007 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

WOOPS

wrong thread... going to post this in the warriors-related Matrix thread now.... feel free to delete?

by BingBluNT on Sep 26, 2007 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LA-PHX-GSW trade

Warriors get MARION
Lakers get HARRINGTON, ELLIS
Suns get ODOM, PIETRUS

PG Baron/Hudson PG Fisher PG Nash
SG Belinelli/Buke SG Bryant SG Bell
SF Jackson/Barnes/Lasme SF Harrington SF Hill
PF Marion/Croshere/Wright PF Radman PF Odom
C Biedrins/POB/Perovic C Bynum C Stoudamire

by gambinofam on Sep 26, 2007 11:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Uh oh

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...

Wow, outside of Kobe, that new LAL starting lineup is horrid. Phoenix got way worse too. I heartily approve of this trade!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 26, 2007 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its pretty rare in itself,

for 2 division rivals to trade key players, but three... you must still believe in santa.

The best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Sep 27, 2007 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why are these players not signed yet?

Varejao

I have strong feeling that the warriors might be in serious trade talks with the caveliers. Varejao was a key piece in their team's last season success. They should have extended his contract weeks ago. Losing Varejao would definitely hurt their chances in returning to the finals. Unless, they have a trade in mind that would better their team and take that next step and win it all. So here is another fantasy trade of mine that worked out in the trade machine.

Phoenix Suns get Gooden-Palpavic-Gibson
Cleveland Cavs get Marion

Suns lineup:
PG Nash - Barbosa - Gibson
SG Bell
SF Hill - Palpavic
PF Gooden - Diaw
C Stoudamire

Cavs lineup:

PG Snow - Jones - Wesley
SG Hughes
SF King James
PF Marion
C Z - Varejao

by gambinofam on Sep 28, 2007 1:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The Suns get Palpatine?

Crap, I would have loved to see him on the Warriors. Mad skills, he has.

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 28, 2007 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

why they haven't signed

The Cavs are in the same boat with Varejao as the Warriors are with Pietrus. They've extended him a qualifying offer and he's yet to accept the deal. In Varejao's case, the QO is for $1.3 million. They know they can get him for a year on the cheap. He'll want much more than that in an extension. If someone else offers him more (unlikely at this point since most teams have burned their money) Cleveland can match. Cleveland has very little incentive to give him a longer term deal now, costing them more than the 1.3 mil and could get them into lux tax space, which would cost even more.

Varejao's only real leverage is to go overseas, sit out the season (which isn't real leverage since Cleveland retains his NBA rights) or a threat to leave after one year no matter what. The last one is the real threat, but Cleveland will still hold his Bird rights and as such, they will still be in the driver's seat to keep him in a year.

But for the time, Varejao has no incentive to accept the offer just yet. He's better off waiting until the last minute to sign (probably right before training camp) just in case a better offer comes along, which still could happen. The "deadlines" for Varejao are either training camp, since holding out beyond that could cost him performance in the season which could cost him money next season, or Oct 30 after which Cleveland can recall the QO (which they won't, but it's possible--this is more an issue for Pietrus who will make more than Varejao on his QO).

I don't think Varejao's status indicates a trade is likely. NBA GMs aren't always a smart bunch, but over the last few years, they've learned that they don't have to extend everyone out of fear, that in fact, with the rules regarding restricted free agency, they hold most of the cards and can wait players out, still likely to get them and get them in a position where they're still playing for future contracts.

by jae on Sep 28, 2007 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs