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OPEN THREAD: NBA Trade Deadline, 12pm PST

Fj_cruiser_tiny by Fantasy Junkie on in News

Originally Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 08:56:13 AM PDT

The NBA trading deadline is today at 1pm - just a few hours away. Are the Warriors going to make a deal? Are any more NBA deals going down? Heck, if you have a trade question you can ask Chad Ford of ESPN.

Let's start this off with some general NBA trade rumors from Marc Stein of ESPN.

Ron Artest

All signs in the early hours of Thursday morning pointed to Denver not making the much-discussed move for Ron Artest.

It sounds like the Kings would indeed rather move Artest than keep him at this point, given that they're unlikely to re-sign him in the summer and could use the final 29 games to get an even better feel for what John Salmons and their three point guards (Beno Udrih, Anthony Johnson and Tyronn Lue) can do. But Denver is still showing reluctance.

And here are some more trade rumors from Chad Ford. He writes about 15 teams in the article and the Warriors don't appear once. Either Mullin is being super secretive or nothing is brewing.

Post any rumors or actual trades (PROVIDE LINKS!) in this thread and discuss.

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Rumor: Rockets-Hornets Trade
RUMOR: Rockets-Hornets Trade

This is just a rumor, but apparently the Hornets are looking to improve their depth by acquiring Mike James and Bonzi Wells in exchange, the Rockets get a backup PG in Jackson and some future salary cap help.

Sources have told ESPN.com that the Hornets and Houston Rockets were in final discussions Thursday on a multi-player deal that would send Mike James and Bonzi Wells to New Orleans for Bobby Jackson, Adam Haluska and a second-round draft pick.

Different variations of the deal evolved Wednesday evening, and the Memphis Grizzlies had gotten involved in a possible three-team scenario. But the main part of the deal, essentially James and Wells for Jackson, was almost certain to go through before the 3 p.m. ET NBA trading deadline, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the talks.

by Fantasy Junkie on Feb 21, 2008 9:11 AM PST   0 recs

houston did well
getting out form under james' contract.  bonzi didnt work out there like they thought he might.  
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 9:21 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

pietrus
has to be gone today doesnt he?  i cant imagine he'll be here at noon.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 9:22 AM PST   0 recs

Jermaine O'Neil
anything about J O'Neil coming to the warriors recently?
NaFAn!

by Warriors219 on Feb 21, 2008 12:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

please no...
I think Jermaine O'Neal has run out of good years.

by kinetic on Feb 21, 2008 12:24 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Please, no trades.
I, for one, hope that Mullin doesn't give into the west-pressure and makes a trade that puts the team's future in jeopardy. Nellie won't be around too much longer, and the young ones will be able to play sooner than many of us think.

Elton Brand, O'Neil, or Artest aren't going to help us win a championship. I say we roll the dice with what we have, and let the other teams in the west give up all hope for a long-shot this year.

by AngelintheInfield on Feb 21, 2008 9:24 AM PST   0 recs

i HATE
this "wait til next year" attitude.  the point is to win championships.  sure, its a long shot but if we keep playing for the future we'll never get anywhere.  we played for the future for about 12 years.  i'm not saying take on oneal's 20 mil salary for the next two years but if artest costs us a pick plus some expirings and the tpe or even harrington, why the hell not?  we'd have a much better chance at making the playoffs AND doing something when we get there and thats what its all about.  baron may not last much longer and nellie gives us a better shot to win a championship than whoever the next guy will be.  go for it mully!
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 9:45 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Sillyness...
You're not going to get Artest for just expirings and a pick.  They can get that from somebody outside their division.
Have you noticed all of the trade diaries?  Not a single one of them has come up with something that will push us into title contention while simultaneously being a remotely sensible trade.
Unless Mully can fleece somebody, we're not going to make any "title contention" moves.  Live with it.  Wait till next year when the gambles that the Mavs/Suns took stop paying off.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 21, 2008 10:17 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

sillyness?
thats what denver is offering.  sac is holding out for kliza but denver isnt budging.  it isnt like sac is making a playoff run this year and artest wouldnt be back next year so the "in the division" argument is moot.  
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 10:44 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

If the question were:
Artest for expirings to Denver

or

Artest for expirings to GSW

What's the difference?  Regardless of whether they're in playoff contention this year, they'd still rather not help out a division rival, so he'd go to Denver.  It's not a moot point.  If we offered something better, they might bite, but we can't and we won't.

Regardless, Artest does not in any way make us a title contender.  We still get owned by Utah, we still get owned by SA, and we've got a shot against Dallas, NO, Houston, Phx, LAL, DEN.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 21, 2008 11:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hahaha
there are flaws in your analysis.

In a way your proposed trade of sending Al + picks and expirings to Sac for Artest could be a move for the future. We'd get out from under Al's remaining two years and 18+MM. More cap room.

But getting Artest while giving up Harrington? That makes us better? umm..no. It'll probably make us worse because of the team chemistry and ball hogging attitude Ron has.

There's no one available that is going to vaunt us into the next tier of teams. We might as well make minor moves at most (such as moving MP, POB or Barnes) for something the FO feel we're lacking.

Making moves in the summer is the smartest decision.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Feb 21, 2008 10:21 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Preach on Brotha!
Forizzle.  We'll know what Monta/Beans want.  We'll know who's available and be able to make some nice lowball offers that the folks that recently signed Shaq, Kidd, and Gasol won't be able to match.  We'll be there, we just ahve to be patient.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 21, 2008 10:37 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

haha
1. you really believe artest wouldnt make us a better team than harrington?  have you ever seen artest play, because thats ridiculous.  artest can do everything harrington can do on offense AND he's the best one on one defender in the league with the ability to guard 4 postitions.  oh yea, and he rebounds.  and he hustles EVERY night.  yea its a bit of a risk since he wants the ball a lot, but if you gave him all of pietrus and al's shots and he was on a playoff team i think he'd be happy.  
2.harrington's contract isnt exactly killer, not someting we need to "get out from under."
3.  team chemistry?  everyone thought the jackson/harrington deal last year would disrupt our locker room.  didnt exactly play out that way did it?  artest gets along fine with jackson, who gets along with baron and those are the 2 captains and leaders.  how do you figure it to be a disruption.

stop being so scared, take a chance.  playing for the future wont get us anywhere.  what do you think we'll suddenly be able to do over the summer that we cant now?  in case you missed it the lakers will still have gasol, bynum, bryant, and odom next season.  the hornets will still have paul, peja, chandler, and west.  portland will be even better.  utah will still have deron williams and boozer.  the west is going to be tough for a LOOONG time, we arent going to wait out any of those teams.

passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 10:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

um, isiah is that you?
This is basically like adding Zach Randolph to the Knicks. Artest is a better player than Harrington, but Al's a much better shooter. Artest is what you call a "ball stopper". Dubs got 3 guys who already pound the ball in BD, Jack, and Monta.

Artest's strengths offensively mirror BD's & Jack's (posting up smaller defenders). Sadly, he's not even the spot up shooter that Pietrus & Al are. Pietrus even has a better true shooting % than Artest and we all know Pietrus is shooting horribly this year. Artest is also a horrible foul shooter.

Artest rebounds? Okay... let's just ignore facts. You do realize he has a worse rebounding rate than Al & Pietrus? You could argue Al plays the 4 more than Artest does, but Pietrus? Everyone thought Al's rebounding rate would go up once he moved from the 3 to the 4, but it hasn't really changed.

Artest's main plus would be perimeter defense, but that's semi-negated by having him play the 4. Who knows if anyone actually fears him, but he might give you a mental advantage because everyone knows that, w/ him, it's not just a bad reputation, this guy is certifiably crazy. On the flip side, he could also deflate the dubs w/ unnecessary flagrant fouls or techs. Who knows how that affects the refs mindset - dubs might receive an even worse whistle.

If we didn't already have a similar player in Jack, I would be more willing to part w/ Al for Artest. Jack's not as good physically, but a lot tougher mentally. I would of only done the trade for part of the exception and Pietrus (maybe throw in POB too).

They do need an intimidator, but on the inside. They swung & missed w/ KG. Outside of Brand, there might not be anyone else available who fits that need.

by the evil monkey on Feb 21, 2008 10:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

what?!
you say you dont want to mess up chemistry by trading al for artest.....but then you'd move barnes???!!! makes no sense at all.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 10:48 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

i dont think mullin
isnt getting any offers good enough for peitrus.  last i read was juan dixon and someone else or the walter hermann and another primo brezrec... who? what? why?  thats a slap in the face.  

i think if we should be happy with what we have and roll with it.  why take a chance and take on elton, JO or artest for BW, Bellinili or draft picks?  i know thats what teams are asking for cause i wouldnt ask for peitrus thats for sure!

win or lose... playoffs or lottery... i gotta luv them dubz! GSW 4 Life!!!

by gogomaplata on Feb 21, 2008 10:14 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Randolph to the Nugs
SI's Ian Thompson reports that if the Nuggets fail to land Artest, they could make a run at New York's Zach Randolph.  It sounds like it would be pretty much straight up Nene for Randolph, but it would only go down if they can't get Artest.

I really wouldn't mind seeing Randolph in the Western conference where we'd get to abuse him an extra 1-2 games every year.


then we will fight in the shade.

by Swamp Thing on Feb 21, 2008 9:25 AM PST   0 recs

Oh yea but RUMOR
Sorry if it wasn't clear, but that's a RUMOR, and only if they don't get Artest.

then we will fight in the shade.

by Swamp Thing on Feb 21, 2008 9:26 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

i dont think
mullins gonna pull the trigger on a deal for pieutrus.  
win or lose... playoffs or lottery... i gotta luv them dubz! GSW 4 Life!!!

by gogomaplata on Feb 21, 2008 9:44 AM PST   0 recs

asdf
i'm either going to be really happy about a trade or really upset.

don't do me wrong mullie, don't do me wrong.

"TIMEOUT IN BARON'S HOUSE"

by the noTORious TOR on Feb 21, 2008 9:47 AM PST   0 recs

Please no sideways trades....
This team needs one more impact player, not a role player swap.  If anything, the team chemistry is W's strong suit.  I'd rather see them as is then bring in a big man that just can rebound well...

by ThermoElectro on Feb 21, 2008 9:56 AM PST   0 recs

Only 2 hours left
until all the speculation and hope talk ends.
Proud Sponsor Of: The San Jose Giants Baseball Team 2008 is gonna be big! http://www.greenlightjerky.com

by GreenLightJerky on Feb 21, 2008 10:01 AM PST   0 recs

Ben Wallace to the Cavs
Ryan, Chicago: Please tell me Ben Wallace is on the move

 Chad Ford: (1:24 PM ET ) Maybe ... call was about Ben Wallace in a possible deal with the Cavs. I've got to stress that it was from what I'd call a third party source ... not someone directly involved in the negotiations. So ... take it with a grain of salt ... but interesting ...

 Chad Ford: (1:25 PM ET ) The deal as I heard it ... by the way ... had Drew Gooden, Ira Newble, Shannon Brown and Cederic Simmons coming back to Chicago.

It's startling how so many people watch basketball, yet so few actually play it.

by 3 The Hard Way on Feb 21, 2008 10:29 AM PST   0 recs

wow
thats nuts
win or lose... playoffs or lottery... i gotta luv them dubz! GSW 4 Life!!!

by gogomaplata on Feb 21, 2008 10:37 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Your own words?
Do you have an opinion on this?  Please don't just post what anybody can read on the chat that's linked above.  It just clutters the thread.  If you wanted to say "That's ludacris!  Ben Wallace sucks!  Why would anybody want to trade anything for him?" like I do, say it.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 21, 2008 10:38 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

re:
this trade will get Ferry Fired if he does it
It's startling how so many people watch basketball, yet so few actually play it.

by 3 The Hard Way on Feb 21, 2008 10:46 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

wow
Thats a bad trade for the Cavs.

by nautica on Feb 21, 2008 10:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

asdf
hell, as disgruntled as he is...i wouldnt mind signing big ben for the rest of the year. we dont need him on the offensive end except to maybe set some high screens and roll to the basket for easy dunks or lay-ups. he give us that inside presence we have been lacking and an attitude like baron and jax.
"TIMEOUT IN BARON'S HOUSE"

by the noTORious TOR on Feb 21, 2008 10:43 AM PST   0 recs

asdf
sorry, i just realized that wouldnt work.

lol

"TIMEOUT IN BARON'S HOUSE"

by the noTORious TOR on Feb 21, 2008 10:46 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

asdf
but we can all dream, right???
"TIMEOUT IN BARON'S HOUSE"

by the noTORious TOR on Feb 21, 2008 10:46 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

W
OAKLAND: Warriors?

 Chad Ford: (1:43 PM ET ) They have had the opportunity to do a big deal ... but seem reluctant to pull the trigger. I think their window is closing and if Denver makes a big deal ... they're the team most likely sitting out of the playoffs in April.

by Asomugha on Feb 21, 2008 10:46 AM PST   0 recs

wow
way to not really answer the question.  a "big deal".  i wonder who he's talking about.  must be ron artest, right?

by Run Dubz Run on Feb 21, 2008 11:22 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

why?
whats different about next year?  artest gives us a fighting chance against utah or L.A.  if all it takes is the 1st round pick, pietrus and the TPE which will expire in a couple months anyway...why not?
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 10:47 AM PST   0 recs

not.
You have to look at the other teams windows. Would you rather be competing against 6 teams, or 4? You aren't gonna beat San Antonio, or probably Phoenix. We probably can't take Detroit in a 7 game. You look at 1 or 2 years and these teams will be on their last legs. We could run right by them.

Right now I don't see us any better than a 2 seed regardless. Utah, LAL, DAL, SA, PHX. They will all beat us, regardless of what move we make. It's stupid to trade away someone at this point. We aren't going to do any damage.

by xcoma on Feb 21, 2008 10:55 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

still, why not?
baron will be on his last legs too and nellie will be gone.  we will undoubtedly give baron a big extension this offseason so in 2 years he'll be slowed and overpayed.  monta will be a star, but we dont know what wright will bring and andris still wont be as good as bynum or boozer and probably not even chandler or oden.  its not like we'll have a ton of cap room either after extensions to baron, monta, and andris.  baron will never be better than he is now.  jack will never be better, why not take a flyer on a rental like artest?  do you really think he wouldnt be exactly what we are missing?  (toughness down low, some rebounding, some outside shooting, a ton of d)
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 11:00 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

erp
First of all, you keep going back to artest and assuming all it's going to take is a 1st round, Pete, and the TPE. That's a pretty vast assumption, considering I'm sure he'd already be wearing Blue and Gold if that was the case.

Secondly, I wouldn't do it because it doesn't make us winners. IMO it doesn't even necessarily make us better. The guy's a jackass.

by xcoma on Feb 21, 2008 11:03 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

stephen jackson
was a "jackass" til in everyone's mind til he got here.  if sac will do it for kliza, expirings and tpe, why not a 1st rounder, expirings and tpe?  its better than losing artest for nothing in a few months.  plus they get to clear playing time for salmons who will actually be there next year. obviously none of us knows what has been offered, and what it would take to get it done, but i'm saying IF thats all it took...why not?  
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 11:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Not Necessarily.
Untrue. Stephen Jackson was a "Jackass" in the eyes of the ignorant. He's got his flaws, but anyone who did any research on his situation knew that the guy was just defending himself. The Malice at the Palace was a little less understandable, but IMO it doesn't make him a bad guy. You have to have a coat of steel over your self-esteem not to want to kill people out there.

There's no comparison. Jackson isn't crazy.

by xcoma on Feb 21, 2008 11:13 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

my thoughts exactly
from espn's bill simmons-
Because Artest fits in with everything else happening there -- he's crazy, he can play multiple positions, he can play any style, and he'd be absolutely devastating in NellieBall because of his unparalleled talent for guarding bigger players. At crunch time, the Warriors could trot out Biedrins, Artest, Jackson, Ellis and Davis and match up with any team in the West. ... Better yet, they'd be intimidating and nuts and unpredictable and everything else you'd want from a lower seed. I wouldn't want to go anywhere NEAR THESE GUYS if they had Artest. Besides, could you put a price on the emotional Artest/Jackson reunion, even if it only lasted for a few months? We'd have to put stun guns underneath the seats of the first few rows for every Warriors game. I can't handle the thought of Artest playing for Golden State; it's so exciting and crazy that I think I just peed on myself.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 11:18 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

look
Artest is not a 4. He's a 3. Same position as Jax. WHat lineup do you propose? If we ship out Al we'd have to be playing Artest at the 4. While i believe he can guard SOME pf's in the league, can he guard Boozer, Duncan, Shaq? I'm not buying that Artest is a better rebounder either.

Go read TK's Blog, he has some really good points about this issue.

Sac won't give us Artest for cheap. Especially to us. We'd have to take on a crap contract like SAR or KT. Is that really worth it? No. Get over your Artest man love.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Feb 21, 2008 11:26 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Okay?
Why you tellin' me? I don't want them to get Artest.

by xcoma on Feb 21, 2008 11:31 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

thats the worst anti-artest argument ever
he plays the 3 not the 4?  really?  thats your argument?  seriously?  have you noticed our coach is don nelson?  have you watched any warriors games the past 2 years?  the only true 4 we have on the roster is brandan wright and he doesnt play.  pietrus, barnes, and al harrington.  those are our 4's.  which of those make a better 4 than artest?  seriously thats ridiculous.  the arguments about his attitude or that sac may not give him to us on the cheap i understand. (but dont agree with, why would sac not take a 1st rounder and cap room, when all they stand to gain by keeping him is cap room and less playing time for salmons?) but saying he would be out of position?  wow.  idiot.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 11:35 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Maybe... possibly...
Artest might, possibly be better than Al at the 4 (though he's giving up a few inches and a few pounds) but he's not going to be anything more than marginally better.  He's not going to fix the "out of position" problem we have now.  We're still going to have the SAME PROBLEM.  Thus, the move would be sideways or maybe a little upward, but would not in a million years move us into TITLE COTENTION.  Stop trying to defend your point.

You're right.  Moving Pietrus+TPE+1st for Artest would make us better now.

But it would not make us title contenders and we'd lose Artest and a 1st rounder in the future.  So we'd basically be giving up a future 1st rounder for a better chance of losing to Utah.  Woohoo!

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 21, 2008 11:54 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

if you think
artest couldnt handle boozer, duncan and the other big 4's 10 times better than any of our guys now do, youve never seen him play.  jackson might be our best defender against 4's right now.  I dont think artest is giving up any pounds to harrington.  i know he's shorter and listed as lighter, but look at them....i dont buy it at all.  i get that its a little bit of a risk, but giving up a late 1st rounder is worth it to have a fighting chance against utah, new orleans, or LA in the playoffs.  Like simmons said-who wants to go near a biedrins, artest, jackson, ellis, baron lineup in crunch time?
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 11:59 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

So...
Your contention is that Artest would make us a title contender.

My contention is that he won't.

You're entitled to your opinion...  I'm just glad you're not actually running the Warriors FO.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 21, 2008 12:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

ok
yea i think we can agree to disagree there.  i'm not saying title favorites.  i'm just saying he gives 'em a shot and a pick isnt much to part with for a shot at winning a playoff series or two..or three or four.  i'd rather win a playoff series than have another belinelli type project burried on the bench next year.  but, i'm glad i'm not running them either, as i never wouldve brought nelson back.  
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 12:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Word
I've been flying smoke signals in hopes that Mullin would respond and at least get us some depth.  Everybody is concerned about their job and reputation IMO.  

Oh well...next year...errr...when Kobe retires, maybe we've got a shot...errr...maybe when Oden and Roy are ready for FA...ahhh...forget it.  

We've got Bellinelli and BW to look forward to...we are going to be unstoppable...I'd bet my Prius on a ring in 7 years!  Kosta!!!

Seriously though...fingers and toes crossed that all of you are right about the young players...I sincerely hope I end up eating my words.

by Hoof on Feb 21, 2008 12:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Oh boo hoo.
Nothing you had in mind would have gotten us a ring this year or next year anyways, so your argument is moot. You're just griping for the sake of griping. Armchair GM's always think they know what's best.

by xcoma on Feb 21, 2008 12:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

but
he has a point. what are we waiting for?  the mavs will continue to be good as long as cuban is willing to pay five times as much luxury tax money as us.  the lakers are loaded for the next 5-7 years.  portland...wow.  new orleans is just getting started with paul, west, and chandler.  utah is going to have boozer and williams together for as long as stockton and malone were.  god help us if the kids in minnesota ever put it all together or seattle puts a legit pg and big man next to KD. things arent going to magically get easier. in 5 years nellie will be gone and we can only hope baron will slightly resemble the player he is now.  its not all doom and gloom, monta, beans, and wright, thats nice to start with but its not going to get us any closer than we are now.  i'd rather take a chance, even if it isnt a great one, than always be playing for the future.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 12:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

You can't help it
You always come off sounding ridiculous and angry.

But that's fine...you can act like you know me...

by Hoof on Feb 21, 2008 12:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

wahhhh.
These words cut like knives :(

by xcoma on Feb 21, 2008 1:56 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Rebounding
Is the main problem with that scenario. Artest is a poor rebounder for his size -- significantly worse than Harrington (5.1 per 36 mins v. 7.1). Simmons' proposed five-some would be exciting in spurts, but would feature perhaps the worst-rebounding forward tandem in NBA history.  Jack and Artest are both fabulous on-the-ball defenders, obviously, but rebounding is a huge part of defense. <JAE>. No team is going anywhere with a starting forward tandem that rebounds that poorly.

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 21, 2008 12:23 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

but
artest currently plays the 3 alonside brad miller and mikki moore and other bigs.  he isnt asked to rebound there. harrington plays the 4 and sometimes 5 where he is often the only guy asked to rebound here. cant really project rebounding numbers.  i dont think it improves greatly, but i dont think it gets any worse.  i do agree it doesnt address one of our most major concerns though.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 12:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Slight edit
Artest actually grabs 5.3 per 36 minutes, not 5.1. Still pretty mediocre. I'd buy he "system" theory if he had ever been able to crack 6.5 boards (per 36), anywhere. His career high is 6.2. I just don't think that cuts it for a starting 4, even in Nellieball.

If I had too rank the "Nellieball starting 4s whom we like to discuss on this board":

Marion >> AK47 >> Artest

Now if we could acquire Artest for SF and Marion for PF...

Baron
Jack/Monta
Artest
Marion
Biedrins
----
6th man: Jack/Monta

That's an actual title contender. Too bad it ain't happening...

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 21, 2008 12:44 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

i agree
that marion>kirilenko>artest  but artest still coulda played a couple key roles as a tough athletic defender who isnt inept on offense.  oh well.  guess we'll have to scrape to get in and probably get bounced in the first round.  hopefully we can turn this TPE into something on draft day or before.  
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 11:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

TK
no offense to TK (good writer) but he also wanted to deal the entire future (harrington, wright, belinelli, picks, AND take back a bad contract like tim thomas) for Brand.  i love ebrand but thats a lot.  and he can opt out after this year just like artest, in which case we would never be able to re-sign him and pay monta, baron, and jack.  artest is a much less risky move than the one TK wanted to make.  doesnt matter now, looks like no trades are gonna happen.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 11:51 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

So, what about Marion?
Seems like if we're going to talk Artest, the Matrix should enter the conversation. Both are pretty much born to play Nellieball, and both are GFIN guys that we could cut loose in the offseason (assuming they don't pick up their player options) in order to re-sign Monta and AB. But Marion --
  • Is a vastly better rebounder (9.6 rebs per 36 minutes, compared to Ronron's paltry 5.1) who can at least fake being an NBA 4
  • Doesn't play (anymore) for a conference rival who might be reluctant to send him to us
  • Is sane
Say, Harrington, POB, MP2 and a pick for Marion? Miami gets a whole lot of salary relief (probably their #1 goal at this point) and a decent, reasonably priced player to boot. And we've at least heard rumors that they've shown interest in MP2...

Tick tick tick...

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 21, 2008 11:55 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Interesting...
That might actually work...  But Marion has a player option to stay on at 17M/year.  He's going to stay wherever he is because he likes money and he's not going to get more by opting out.  Then the question becomes what do we do with Monta/Beans?  The only way I see that working is if we go all the way and Cohan decides to open the coffers to keep the core together (Translation: start charging more for tickets).

On top of that, he was a cancer in Phoenix, maybe with our free flowing basketball attitude he'd fit in better here.  Don't know about it.  I wouldn't be sad if that happened.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 21, 2008 12:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

i dunno
i think he'll opt out.  17 mil is a lot but he may think he can get more...or a situation where he is the #1 or #2 option.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 12:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

yea
im with you on that.  i just think marion would cost a little more since miami could probably use marion in a sign and trade for brand or something like that in the offseason.  ak47 is another guy who was born to play nellie ball. thought utah probably wouldnt hand deliver us an answer to- how do we defend 4's like boozer and west and duncan and gasol?  but you make a good point, matrix would be a far better aquisition than artest, even though he might bring some locker room drama.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 12:05 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The one problem i have with your scenario's
is that it doesn't address the warriors problems down low. Every championship team that has won the NBA Title in the past 20 years has had a low post threat. The one exception is the Bulls--but--Jordan had probably the best back to the basket in the history of the game. He'd continually put in High % shots and/or get to the line. Look at the teams that round out the top this year you have Utah, San Antonio, Boston, Detroit, Phoenix, New Orleans--they all have a low post threats and each one has a chance to go very far in this year's playoffs.

I fail to see how adding Kirilenko or Artest would help this team get over the hump (now remember i'm not saying it won't make them better). Marion is the only guy that could play between the 3-4 that would work.

I just feel you're thinking rather short-sighted when I'm looking big picture. The Trade Deadline came and gone so it's a moot point.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Feb 21, 2008 12:42 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

thats nonsensical
we dont play the same style as those teams.  if we did baron, monta and jack wouldnt be as effective.  we do need an upgrade inside but that doesnt mean it has to be a back to the basket player.  mismatches are where nellie specializes and why baron (most effective post up guard today) jack and monta are so good here.  it means we need a guy who fits our system and can play some d and rebound.  thats marion.  thats ak47.  and to a lesser degree thats artest.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 21, 2008 11:52 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

You are correct.
Which is why i believe we won't win a championship. Its why Phoenix altered its system, its why San Antonio is a dynasty.

I agree that Marion >> AK >> Artest. But we would have to acquire two of the three to be considered elite.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Feb 22, 2008 12:33 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

AB
And Andris will never be a "back to the basket player".  He isn't suited for a traditional offense...or defense for that matter so...it begs the question:

"What kind of money do we give AB this year?  Should we dedicate it to a more traditional 4 or 5?"

What happens to Ellis in a more traditional style of play?  He seems to thrive in the uptempo pace.

Do we extend Nelson?  He's not going to change his philosophy.

Kenntoe, are you suggesting a complete overhaul and major adjustments in personnel?

If so, I am intrigued and would love to hear some ideas to this end.  

by Hoof on Feb 22, 2008 9:42 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Not trying to be a kenntoe apologist...
I always felt that of all the regular posters here, kenntoe seems to be the least emamored with the current warriors style of play.  Its never been a mystery that his perfect NBA organizational model is the SA spurs.  He has on multiple occassions suggested reloading and building for the future: whether it be possible future draftees, developing the youngins on the current roster or suggesting possible nelly-replacements.  

I don't think I've ever agreed with any of his posts whole-heartedly, but it's his opinion, and honestly, the fact his opinions aren't congruent w/ a majority of posters here, makes his posts refreshing(at least to me).  Not to mention his posts are pretty well thought out, he does HIS homework before posting and he's not a jerk to people that don't agree with him.

"To my dear brother, Noompsy."

by Tim N Chris Burger on Feb 22, 2008 11:38 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I totally agree with every point
I also enjoy reading about Kenntoe's perspective on things.  I don't want to give him too fat of a head but, I'm always keenly interested in his posts and the questions I posed are completely sincere.

by Hoof on Feb 22, 2008 12:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

yea
but i disagree that the spurs are a perfect model.  this system CAN win in the playoffs.  the suns got SCREWED last year, otherwise theyd be wearing championship rings, marion would still be there, we probably wouldve added an artest type and be considered contenders.  amazing the effect those ridiculous suspensions have had. its great to able to build a fundamentally sound team that plays great d and slows it down around a guy like duncan, but its not the only way to win.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 22, 2008 3:24 PM PST to parent up   0 recs