RECAP: Warriors 110, Hawks 117 - Blame it on the Weekend

by dj fuzzylogic on Feb 23, 2008 6:47 AM PST in Recaps

The Warriors are déjà vu like Beyonce Knowles.

Its like the Warriors were re-living a game played last year.

After beating one of the best teams in the league, the Warriors let the lowly Atlanta Hawks take them to the house. Granted the Warriors were without, again, emotional and defensive anchor, Stephen Jackson and leading rebounder, Andris Biedrins. But the lackadasical effort on the defensive end throughout, worsened by Warriors poor protection of the ball and poor shot selection on the offensive end (14 turnovers), continually hurt them throughout. While Biedrins may have made up for the rebounding disparity, the rest of the Warriors inability to defend on the perimeter and rotate to get in the faces of sharp shooters like Joe Johnson probably would have made Biedrins contributions on the defensive end pretty negligible.

Josh Smith made things look easy

Though the Warriors battled back in the 3rd quarter with some scrappy play, this was a game that the Atlanta practically handed to them (20 turnover, which the Warriors rarely capitalized on). Trading baskets when your down by 10, 20 points isn't going to cut it.

From jump, the Warriors looked like they were on relax mode for the weekend. Their shots fell waaaaaay short, barely hitting front iron; they were unable to stop the drive; and they looked confused in defensive transition. There were several times where Monta, Pietrus, fill in the name of any Warriors on the court would have no idea where their man had drifted to and that man would end up with a wide open jumper. Why did the Warriors always have two players running out at a man on the perimeter? On both end of the floor, it was pure chaos: overthrown passes, passes to no one, majorly clanking shots, and so on and so forth. Further, the Hawks defended the Warriors run out plays, preventing easy buckets in transition. You could tell the Hawks read the scouting reports, or tivoed Warriors games just because they knew they would be fun to watch!

Simply put, the Warriors were outhustled and outmuscled. A long, athletic, and skilled Hawks team created havoc for out small ball Warriors. The Hawks are reminiscent to the Steve Lavin UCLA days, with his army of 6'7-6'9 small forwards at all positions; Joe Johnson at the shooting guard spot proved to be more than a handful for Monta Ellis and Baron Davis. Stanfords best NBA prospectus ever, Josh Childress, made me eat my typed words as he jumped over practically anyone for offensive rebounds. Zaza Pachulia, a fantasy stud a few years ago, completely dominated the smaller Austin Croshere during the second quarter and just about anyone else that tried to defend him one on one.

Smith goes up for another uncontested shot. These pictures are looking SLAM monthly poster insert worthy!

Amidst a defensive effort that that could probably only come straight out of a Mike Dunleavy Jr's "Guide to playing basketball" handbook if one existed was our team captain Baron Davis relentlessly keeping us within striking distance, which is about 23 points if the Wizards game is any indication. With most of his points coming off drives, Baron Davis continually attacked Salim Stoudemire and split defenders, willing himself and the Warriors to the hoop. Chris Webber started the game off nicely with a few nice passes from the high post, but also has several errant passes (3 TO), which perhaps is due to his rustiness. We got a glimpse at the court vision that Webber has and his ability to initate offense, which might come in handy down the line or even now in spelling Baron Davis on the court.

Oddly, versus the Celtics, the Warriors only attempted 14 threes compared to last night where they only made 5 of 26. If Monta, Baron, and even Azubuike put holes in the Hawks defense like moths in a closet, why not continue attacking the basket? Further, the freethrow disparity was also outrageous as well. The Hawks made 11 more free throws and also attempted 10 more than the Warriors, which as we've mentioned before, allows opponents to punish you in multiple ways (foul trouble, easy points, etc.).

Damn! It's Josh Smith AGAIN! Guess you can't help but stare at tight dunks

Aside from Webber, there was very little ball movement. With the Warriors struggling offensively in the first half, it seemed that the team relied too heavily on Baron and Harrington to keep them in the game. Granted, without Baron attacking the basket, the Warriors probably would have been down by 30 by halftime. But too often in the first half, Baron went one on three or they ran isolation plays for Harrington three times in a row. The drive and kicks that the Warriors more effectively ran in the second half was non-existent in the first half.

Silverlining: Brandan Wright defied my prediction (which I am glad)! Finally getting some valuable playing when it counts during the game, Wright had a solid game helping the Warriors out where they needed it most (read=defense). Though he struggled with his one-on-one defense (like everyone else), he altered shots and got UP, finally stopping the Hawks from getting second chance points. His teammates did a great job of putting him in a position to score; there were no awkward shot attempts by Wright to take his man off the dribble. He's not ready to carry the torch nor am I suggesting that he's necessarily the one to take it, but I'm hoping he can build on this game and become a regular contributor by season's end.

Monta had some Sportscenter top 10 plays tonight

Watching a shorthanded Warriors getting abused on the defensive glass made me wonder how picking up someone, ala Artest, might have altered the situation. If the Lakers pressed to pick up Pau Gasol only when Andrew Bynum went down, shifting their attentions away from JKidd (as rumors have it), why wouldn't the Warriors want to make a trade (not necessarily Artest, but some other solid player) if we have players that might be out indefinitely? If Don Nelson's contract is largely incentive based, wouldn't he want to solidify his team in the present?

At any rate, the Warriors lacked urgency as they always do after an amazing win over a top tier team. No disrespect to the Hawks, but the Warriors definitely played to their level. The West is just too good for the Warriors to be losing these types of games. Usually an egg in the Warriors faces usually gets them going the following game though, no matter who the opponent is. If this is the case, can I continue critiquing them in hopes that they'll feel motivated?

I reluctantly give it to Baron Davis, even though he was ignition like R.Kelly. Without him the Warriors would not have been able to make that comeback in the second half. He put up some blistering numbers and hit big buckets when it counted over and over again.

Photos courtesy of Rocky Widner/NBAE via Getty Images

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Nellie is wasting

valuable minutes playing MP3. Check out last nights box score: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008022209

MP3 had zero points in 25+ minutes! In fact, he only grabbed a pair of rebounds, a pair of jacks and one assist! You'd think he could get out in transition with Baron and get a basline layup or something! Nellie needs to talk to the guys and let them know that someone needs to step up with Jack and Beans out. Also looking at the box, the Dubs were +12 with him on the floor for 25 minutes. That went for best on the team. Buike was +9 and everybody else was in the negative.

Good point that B-Wright can't dominate yet, but he's so eager and so ready to play (unlike MP3 and often Harrington) that you have to have him in a game like this.

It would have been epic to see a Josh Smith, B-Wright collision above the rim. Lefty on lefty mano-y-mano. DOn't crawl into a hole and die yet. Someone in the West will start to fall apart. Most likely Houston.

!!Spree for three!!

by peteb24 on Feb 23, 2008 7:38 AM PST reply actions

IMO

Houston is not gonna fall apart.
They're beating everyone in their way right now.

by gby822 on Feb 23, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions

good point

we needed to see much more of Buke, Wright, heck even POB. All Pietrus did was take up space. Note to Nellie: Just because you want Pietrus to contribute consistently, doesn't mean you have to leave him out there until it happens.

Welcome to Oracle.

by tadams1080 on Feb 23, 2008 7:51 AM PST reply actions

Momentum-Killer

Our home record is what's keeping us out of the top 8. Effort on defense is what separates. We cut it to 7 points in the 3rd and let down on defense. Wright was more responsible for the comeback than any other player. He got out-juked by Smith on defense, but came back with a nifty dunk 4 seconds later. He needed to play until we pulled even. We didn't need 3s at that point, we needed tough d. Salim Stoudemire torched us in the lane! Wha?

by eshock @ Golden State Of Mind on Feb 23, 2008 9:42 AM PST reply actions

I love Buke...

but he was a liablitity on the defensive end last night. Joe Johnson did whatever he wanted to do and set up him teammates especially Salim Stoudamire (avgs 3.9 pts for the season),who scored 18 pts for the game! He should never score that much. This game showed me how much I miss J-Rich. He would definitely made an impact on defense and on the boards.

by DreDizz on Feb 23, 2008 9:49 AM PST reply actions

ugh

Jrich is not known for his defense so I don't know how you can say that.

by flaaron on Feb 23, 2008 10:01 AM PST up reply actions

lol

j-rich is not a lock down defender at all

by AJC3317 on Feb 23, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions

dude

buike did as much as he can. did u see taht block he did on joe johnson? im sure u saw that block he did. he did fine against one of the best scorers. Im sure if Pietrus were guarding him as much as buike in the second half, he would of fouled out. salim was so open to make that jumper thanks to monta. he came to the double to late, or to early which makes johnson to kick it to salim so then hes open. simple as that.

by GSwarrior on Feb 23, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions

Pretty Disappointed

I rarely question Nellie's coaching because the man obviously has more hoops knowledge in his finger than all of us have combined, but I really question the substitution patterns last night. I'm sure he was getting sick of watching the Warriors get burned by the Hawks so easily on D and I know MP2 was giving them the best defensive effort last night out of anybody (though not all that effective), but was it really worth it? As usual the Warriors were getting killed on the glass and unfortunately this time going small wasn't working.

Chris Webber played an excellent 15 min and his passing was just breathtaking to watch. He grabbed a board almost every 2 minutes and was contributing big time there. Brandan Wright was having a breakout game (rebounding from that dismal performance two games ago where he just looked unfocused). Wright was making an impact on the glass and scoring as well. Why not play them together down the stretch?

It really makes you wonder if Pietrus just looks great in practice while Wright, Belinelli, and POB just aren't bringing it.

The Warrior woes start on D, not on offense. It's like without Jack everyone just decides as a team they don't even feel like really trying on that end. I agree with my man Fuzzy that given their overall atrocious defense this season, Artest could've been exactly what they needed. Very frustrating loss although I will give some major props to the Hawks. If Nellie was coaching them their record would be much better.

Here's what a I wrote about this game for The W Column:

http://thewcolumn.blogspot.com/2008/02/counting-ws-for-week-17.html

Friday, February 22: Warriors vs Hawks
When I was on a conference call with Baron Davis a few months ago, one of the very astute bloggers in the group (haha, that automatically excludes me) asked him what team out there brought their A+ game and always gave the Warriors more trouble than they should when they squared off. Baron said the Altanta Hawks. In other words, Hawks : Warriors what Warriors : Mavericks. Don't be surprised if this game is much closer than you'd expect.

The Hawks shocked everyone over the weekend by pulling a off a trade for Sactown's favorite point guard Mike Bibby. This franchise takes a lot of hits from the media and fans, but you really have to give them their due for pulling that off. Bibby, block and steals machine Josh Smith, Stanford product Josh Childress, rookie big man stud Al Horford, and All-Star Joe Johnson could make some serious noise down the final stretch of this regular season and beyond.

On paper the Hawks look very impressive and this game should make for a fun Friday night outing here in the Bay Area. However, while the Hawks are still gelling and trying to find their new identity with Bibby, the Warriors will be hitting them in full force on all cylinders.

Prediction: 1 more for the W column

BD wasn't joking.

by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 23, 2008 10:03 AM PST reply actions

In regards to Webber

You're making the typical fan mistake of focusing too much on offense, highlights, and "plays that impress me".

Webber is killing the team defensively. He has made a soft defensive team even softer. Outside of forcing steals, this team cannot stop the opposition from getting a good look. Those looks have gotten even closer to the hoop and more uncontested since Webber's arrival. It's not just the dunks, lay ups and 2-4 footers - tt's obvious teams are shooting a lot better from 3 since Webber arrived b/c he doesn't show on screens, doesn't rotate out to defenders, and the rest of the team has to rotate to help him defensively when he gets switched out onto a perimeter player.

Maybe you don't notice it watching the game, so hopefully stats will convince you. According to 82games.com, Webber is a net -17.7 on court/off court. And the dubs are getting outscored by 15 points when Webber is on the court. The only player worse on the roster is Belinelli.

Hopefully, he will get better as he gets in shape... but he was already a pretty bad defender when he was in Sac so I wouldn't count on it.

by the evil monkey on Feb 23, 2008 3:04 PM PST up reply actions

fyi

82games.com stats are based on per 100 possessions.

by the evil monkey on Feb 23, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions

No doubt

You're very wise to point out those short comings on D for CWebb as far as rotations. But I do think he's getting way too much blame and not enough credit. For the past 2 games he's done more good than bad. He's the ONLY player on this team who looks to set up his teammates and create for them before trying to score. Watch him set some great screens for his teammates both with and without the ball in the high post. CWebb did a nice job on the glass last night too. As far as D, his craftiness really helped him give KG a ton of trouble in the 1st half of Wednesday's game. He's old and yes he's lost a ton of athleticism, but don't underestimate what kind of an impact his savviness can have down the stretch. He's the smartest big man the Warriors have had in decades.

Nellie's no fool- there's a reason he brought on Webber and he's starting him. He's getting better every game and gives them a new element both on offense and defense (simply because of his quick hands and big body). A big reason his +- sucks is because he's playing mostly in the 1st half. I don't think there's causation here, but rather correlation. Even before CWebb returned to the Dubs, they've had major issues coming out the gate. This team just doesn't show up till 8:30pm. I think if Nellie played him more down the stretch (especially last night w Wright), we would've seen something nice- but what do I know? I trust Nellie in the overall scheme of things.

Remember aside from Jack and some moments here and there from BD/ Al/ Barnes/ Pietrus, this has been an atrocious defensive team this season. Last spring people were trashing the Warriors saying they didn't play any D. Well they were wrong and probably just went off the boxscore. However, this year if they made that claim, they'd be perfectly right. This team needs D (Artest!), not more offense. You'd hope that would come internally from supposed corner stones Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins. Their D has taken a big step back from last season and is incredibly disappointing. Ditto for Al, MP2, and Barnes.

If this team is going to make it to the playoffs and make some noise, it's going to take smarter and more tenacious defense. It was there last spring. Will it be there this spring?

by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 23, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions

Boy, Atma

Are we seeing different things.

First, tho I've always loved CWebb's game (plus he went to HS about a mile from where I grew up, and we both went to Michigan), what I see of his play on the W's is just atrocious basketball. Tho he DOES look to pass on offense, the entire rest of his game is abysmal. (The O just stagnates when he's in.) He has NO offensive moves and his D is, simply, worse than ever. And from my seat, he was being eaten alive by Garnett -- until Nellie sanely put AB on him (who played Garnett much better than even the rest of the game).

And how you do not see Goose as the best (by far) defender on this team -- even better than Jackson who, tho he can play smart and use his good hands, doesn't (or can't) bring his A game when he's playing 40+ minutes a night -- is beyond me. AB's the ONLY guy to play D down low; he's the ONLY guy who rotates to the weak side; he's a rebounding phenom; he positions his less intelligent teammates (Hi, MP!); he's fast -- especially for a guy his size; and he outlets as quickly as anyone I've seen this year save Duncan.

The proof of the pudding, though, was the Atlanta game where, without Goose, the team could muster absolutely NO defense (and ALL of CWebb's defensive shortcomings were so obviously on display).

AB's only major weakness right now is his lack of physical strength. While he can man up to great, thinner players like Garnett, he can get killed by thick guys like Boozer. Since he's still only 21, I fully expect to see 20-30 more pounds on him over the next few years -- and then I don't think he'll get abused by the heavy guys.

But his game right now is a joy for any thinking BBall fan to watch -- heightened by the fact that he plays the game with such enthusiasm and has been emotionally impervious to Nellie's verbal abuse (and strange practice not to play him 35 minutes a game). But maybe Nellie learned something from finally playing BW in the Atlanta game -- he sure copped to his mistake afterwards. We'll see if he can "grow" these two together, because -- with Monta, of course -- these three young Warriors look like they'll be just what we need to compete at the very top in 2-3 years.

by johnl on Feb 24, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions

Webber...

...is obviously a minus face up defender, I don't think anyone will argue that point. I would put it to you that he has performed pretty darn well on low post D, especially on Garnett, who he got a pretty easy stuff on in the first half, I believe. Often for deep low post D, the matter becomes almost mathematic, it's all about how you can predict the offensive player's move on the basket. Webber's been around long enough to know a guy like Garnett's tendencies, they've been dueling for over a decade. So in that situation, I've been very pleased.

That said, he doesn't have any physical range to chase down a rebound, he doesn't eevn try to come out on perimeter shooters- nor should he, really. He'd probably blow a knee, and those players shouldn't be open if the Warriors perimeter man defense was a little stouter.

The answer to me seems clear. Webber should only be in there at the 4 when AB is at the five. He needs Andris there to cover up for his physical shortcomings.

by Zack Vank on Feb 24, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions

Good Points

Webber's intelligence and experience DO, indeed, help him in predicting opponents' moves down low. But you still have to be able to move, rotate to the weak side, jump, and use your arms ikn the low post to defend -- and CWebb accomplishes precious little in these respects. Maybe hge'll pick up some quickness with more PT, but he lost "fast" a decade ago. And right now he's like a gob of clay in the post. He also, as you point out so well, needs Goose in at the five if he's playing a high-post four. (Frankly, though I see him as a perpetual net minus, I do enjoy the fleeting paasing options Webb has with Andris on the screen and roll.) Plus, he slows the whole team down -- on both ends of the court.

In short, CWebb's savvy isn't enough for me to want to see him on the floor. I'd much rather watch the callow BW play, even with his rookie mistakes and physical (i.e. weight) limitations. Save CWebb for those special situations where his limited talents are most helpful -- say in games against Utah or in the playoffs (assuming we slip by Denver) when things slow down and banging becomes a necessity.

by johnl on Feb 25, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions

Honestly,

I think Nellie doesn't even watch his younger guys during in practice. Or when he does, all he does is focus on the negatives. I mean damn, I wasn't that surprised seeing Wright gobble up rebounds the way he did but Nellie was? Come on now.

Put this game up there with the Minnesota and Chicago games.

So far, we're 5-3 in February right now with 2 games remaining for the month. Gotta get it down dubs!

art by jnazaire 07

by disguy on Feb 23, 2008 11:04 AM PST reply actions

eh

during practice*

done*

art by jnazaire 07

by disguy on Feb 23, 2008 11:05 AM PST up reply actions

ouch

check out this quote

"Whatever momentum we had, (Al Harrington) always seemed to be there to miss a shot or make a turnover or foul or something," Nelson said. "He had one of those games that you don't want to have very often."

by saintdee on Feb 23, 2008 12:11 PM PST reply actions

also another

great quote by AJC3317

"this game really shows

the trade did absolutely nothing at all. i'm not saying we shouldn't have made it or anything like that, but it for sure hasn't made us any better."

I think that quote should remind us not to criticize too soon.

by saintdee on Feb 23, 2008 12:17 PM PST reply actions

great quote by me

never been so happy to be so wrong. not sure what it has to do with this situation tho

by AJC3317 on Feb 23, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions

Games like this

make me really worry about whether or not this team is going to make the playoffs. They can NOT lose to this team or a short handed Chicago team, or the Nets. These are bad signs. They better get it together and be more consistant quick. The last 15 games on the schedule are brutal.

by bilfor on Feb 23, 2008 12:57 PM PST reply actions

i dunno

if we are going to make the playoffs this year either. Houston is pretty much guarenteed a 7th spot and we are getting behind. Beans injury is gonna hurt us big time...

brb, going to ORACLE

by warrior510 on Feb 23, 2008 1:11 PM PST reply actions

correction

Andris's surgery

brb, going to ORACLE

by warrior510 on Feb 23, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions

We need more bench players

They really should used all the irregular players to play if we lose so they get experience and so that we can see who will be a threat in the future, we have two 7 footers use em to block some shots. come on nellie

by goldenstatewarriors on Feb 23, 2008 6:00 PM PST reply actions

i wouldn't

consider atlanta a "lowly" team.

they have a solid starting 5 that can be very dangerous next season if not this season if they stay intact and if smith doesn't leave a-town.

they are a lot better than their record suggests. i was highly disappointed with the loss, but it didn't come as much as a surprise since atlanta is very talented.

by jchao204 on Feb 23, 2008 6:51 PM PST reply actions

like

fitz said the only silver lining to this game was witnessing wrights ability and what he can do for us. i mean grabbing 8 boards for us is great and on top of that 4/4 shooting. hopefully well see a lot more of him from here on out

by eeeric on Feb 23, 2008 8:59 PM PST reply actions

WOOOOOOPI

DENVER lost!!!!!!!!!!!

brb, going to ORACLE

by warrior510 on Feb 23, 2008 9:00 PM PST reply actions

i blame..

the loss on harrington

Don't live life like you don't have anything, live like you want something

by jayfeezy on Feb 24, 2008 12:04 PM PST reply actions

Be Right

These have easily been the two most important games of the year. The Boston game showed us that we can win without Jax. The Atlanta game finally gave us a chance to see Be Right (I meant to spell it this way). When we start seeing Biedrins and Wright together more and we abandon small ball, we will be a better team. I'm all for playing fast, but not at the expense of our bigs. Our bigs are fast and can rebound and we need them in for size.

by CABANGBANG on Feb 24, 2008 12:31 PM PST reply actions

Pietrus - only perimeter defender

Hey, I know a bunch of you were hating on Pietrus. But, even though he didn't score, the warriors were 12+ with him on the floor. Why? Because he's the only guy that could guard ANYONE on the perimeter. I was shocked that Nelli kept Kaz out there to defend Joe Johnson even when Kaz was getting beat time after time. He should have brought in Pietrus, shut down Joe J., and the Warriors would have had the win.

by WhatUSay on Feb 24, 2008 7:37 PM PST reply actions

again

he was +12 bc he was in the game when the other team already shut the game and all he was doing is making shots when the defense let down with bibby off the floor the hawks shut the game, so if +12 yeah because of charity points...

by goldenstatewarriors on Feb 24, 2008 10:18 PM PST up reply actions

the system works

warriors are 11 games over .500 which is incredible from last year's efforts. overall the biggest flaw in the warriors is nellie. he goes small wen we're getting killed on the boards and abused by a big man. he doesnt realize harrington is a small forward. that mp2 really really really really really really sux. also c webb really really really really really sux. wright, pob and kosta need to start playing. they are big men that can rebound clog the paint. nellie's poor rotation also kills the team. i mean takin out harrington for barnes wen barnes is getting all the points is jus ridiculous. lik someone else said, nellie needs to get promoted for gm or something and we can get a new coach to change the system a bit. keith smart could keep the system and add new things if his up for it. the warriors need a athletic at least 6' 10' big man that can rebound. but jus get nellie out, the way his coachin its gonna b really hard to get into the playoffs

by gswLLBatman on Feb 25, 2008 8:05 PM PST reply actions

I love it...

We're two years removed from the longest playoff drought in NBA history, sitting at 11 games above 0.500 and in the playoffs for the second year in a row. And people want to fire the ONLY reason we're not still in the midst of that drought. Without Nelly, we'd be riding JR23 and DunMurph to the lotto... again. Instead we're the most exciting team in the league and we're winning.

I also like the "These guys on the floor aren't doing everything exactly right, so those guys on the bench who never play must be able to play better! Oh, and the coach with no experience has to be better than the guy with the second most NBA wins ever!"

Seriously people, huh?